Where do you purchase 12 volt Batteries?

Guest312Guest312 Registered Users Posts: 22
Does Wal-Mart sell 100 Ah or 150, 250Ah Batteries?

I was looking for a one stop type place that I can look at and look over all the different types of 12v & 24v batteries for Solar Panels & Pure Sine Wave Power Inverters.

Also.. Was wondering, is this how your supposed to hook up a Charge Controller for a off grid basic solar panel system?


If it's wrong, can you please tell me how it's supposed to be hooked up?
Attachment not found.

Comments

  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Where do you purchase 12 volt Batteries?

    Welcome to the forum.

    Wal*Mart sells what it has, which is usually not deep cycle batteries suitable for RE use. The warehouse version, Sam's Club, sometimes has golf cart 6 Volt batteries which are suitable (and cheap). You won't find a 24 Volt battery in these small sizes; if that Voltage is needed you string two 12's or four 6's together. In fact most 12 Volt systems will use two 6's in series to get enough Amp hours @ 12 Volts to be viable.

    Your picture/diagram shows a few problems. One being you do not attach an inverter to the LOAD terminals of a charge controller; they aren't meant to handle the kind of current an inverter draws. For example a 1kW 12 Volt inverter may pull 100 Amps, but the charge controller can only handle 15.

    Another issue is there are far more batteries in that depiction than are good for a system. If you really need the stored energy provided by eighteen 12 Volt batteries you need to go to a higher system Voltage. Moreover, the 15 Amp controller would never be able to charge that much.

    Three panels shown: if these are connected in parallel then there should be fuse or breaker on each one. This over and above the need for such protection on the line from charge controller to battery and from battery to inverter.
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,142 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Where do you purchase 12 volt Batteries?

    Not to mention there is no circuit breakers shown in that schematic ..

    Here is a much better diagram to refer to

    http://www.midnitesolar.com/pdfs/kid_inverter_load_diagram.pdf
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • ZakarumeZakarume Solar Expert Posts: 143 ✭✭
    Re: Where do you purchase 12 volt Batteries?

    If you are still looking for batteries. Check to see if you have a Battery Outfitters in your area. http://batteryoutfitters.com/ You can take bad batteries there get a small credit in purchasing new battery. They will also sell the cables to hook your batteries up in series or parellel
    1460 Watts Solar @24v. 675 AH Battery Bank using 12 6v Trojan T-105. 1 Midnite Classic 150. 1500 Watt 24v Samlex Pure Sine Inverter
  • PhotowhitPhotowhit Solar Expert Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Where do you purchase 12 volt Batteries?

    Battery Outfitters is a pretty small chain in Missouri and Arkansas. Sams Club and Costco are likely at least somewhat near you and have inexpensive golfcart batteries, typically where most people start. For inverters, it is unlikely you will find a large selection anywhere but online. Some places like West marine may have a small selection, but not likely the best selection for what you need.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Prosine 1800 and Exeltech 1100, 660 ah 24v ForkLift battery. Off grid for @16 of last 17 years. Assorted other systems, and to many panels in the closet to not do more...lol
  • scrubjaysnestscrubjaysnest Solar Expert Posts: 175 ✭✭✭
    Re: Where do you purchase 12 volt Batteries?

    Tractor supply is pretty common and handles a good selection also everything riding lawn mower to 8D's
  • PhotowhitPhotowhit Solar Expert Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Where do you purchase 12 volt Batteries?
    Tractor supply is pretty common and handles a good selection also everything riding lawn mower to 8D's

    I would not suggest the stowaways as true deep cycle batteries, more of a trolling motor/dual use battery. Golf Cart batteries are likely to last a good bit longer.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Prosine 1800 and Exeltech 1100, 660 ah 24v ForkLift battery. Off grid for @16 of last 17 years. Assorted other systems, and to many panels in the closet to not do more...lol
  • Guest312Guest312 Registered Users Posts: 22
    Re: Where do you purchase 12 volt Batteries?
    Welcome to the forum.

    Wal*Mart sells what it has, which is usually not deep cycle batteries suitable for RE use. The warehouse version, Sam's Club, sometimes has golf cart 6 Volt batteries which are suitable (and cheap). You won't find a 24 Volt battery in these small sizes; if that Voltage is needed you string two 12's or four 6's together. In fact most 12 Volt systems will use two 6's in series to get enough Amp hours @ 12 Volts to be viable.

    Your picture/diagram shows a few problems. One being you do not attach an inverter to the LOAD terminals of a charge controller; they aren't meant to handle the kind of current an inverter draws. For example a 1kW 12 Volt inverter may pull 100 Amps, but the charge controller can only handle 15.

    Another issue is there are far more batteries in that depiction than are good for a system. If you really need the stored energy provided by eighteen 12 Volt batteries you need to go to a higher system Voltage. Moreover, the 15 Amp controller would never be able to charge that much.

    Three panels shown: if these are connected in parallel then there should be fuse or breaker on each one. This over and above the need for such protection on the line from charge controller to battery and from battery to inverter.

    Could you please show me or point to where I can learn how exactly to hook this up? Thanks for the warm welcome, very much appreciated. I was directed from ALL ABOUT CIRCUITS, to come here and learn how to do this. They don't necessarily specialize in Solar, or talk about it there very much.
  • Guest312Guest312 Registered Users Posts: 22
    Re: Where do you purchase 12 volt Batteries?
    westbranch wrote: »
    Not to mention there is no circuit breakers shown in that schematic ..

    Here is a much better diagram to refer to

    http://www.midnitesolar.com/pdfs/kid_inverter_load_diagram.pdf


    Very Nice. Thank You. I understand now.
  • Guest312Guest312 Registered Users Posts: 22
    Re: Where do you purchase 12 volt Batteries?

    I'm pretty sure now, that this is how it's done. Right..?

    Just don't know where to get fuses.. or DC Circuit breakers.

    Drew this myself, to give myself a better understanding how this all goes together. Uses InkScape Vector based drawing program & PsCS5.1

    Going to use a Renogy 100W Panel or module to start with, and the listed battery in the drawing.. The Pure Sine Power Inverter will probably not be as good, maybe 1000W to start.
    I'll do a 12v system to start, but I understand that having a 24v system will use less current.

    Attachment not found.
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Where do you purchase 12 volt Batteries?

    Yes, that's how it is done.

    Our host NAWS has a variety of fuses, breakers, connectors, wires, etc.: http://www.solar-electric.com/installation-parts-and-equipment/midnite/cipr1.html

    You do realize that a single 100 Watt panel is not capable of charging much battery, right? The Imp of those is about 5 Amps and that would barely make a no-load charge for 100 Amp hours @ 12 Volts.
  • Guest312Guest312 Registered Users Posts: 22
    Re: Where do you purchase 12 volt Batteries?

    I realized that.. Was going to use two 100 watt panels. But even that seems like it will not do diddly squat. So what do I need to do? Just want to power 32" LED HDTV, Laptop, and a fan. To start with. I just want to get my feet wet a little bit, I'm really excited about learning & getting some hands on time with some Solar Panels, etc. I did realize the output of the panels wasn't going to charge a 100Ah battery. There's just not enough daylight to charge it. I've been watching the sun, and it seems about 10AM to about 3PM is the most I'll get. That's only like 50Ah, at most. So.. Idk.

    What would you suggest, more modules right? Because if I have more modules (Panels), then that means more current going to the battery(s).
  • Guest312Guest312 Registered Users Posts: 22
    Re: Where do you purchase 12 volt Batteries?
    Yes, that's how it is done.

    Our host NAWS has a variety of fuses, breakers, connectors, wires, etc.: http://www.solar-electric.com/installation-parts-and-equipment/midnite/cipr1.html

    You do realize that a single 100 Watt panel is not capable of charging much battery, right? The Imp of those is about 5 Amps and that would barely make a no-load charge for 100 Amp hours @ 12 Volts.

    Never mind.. stupid question, figured out what NAWS is.. silly me.

    How do I know what type of fuses or DC Circuit breakers to buy? I mean, how do I calculate the Ampere age for the circuit or fuses I'll need? How's that figured out?
  • AuricTechAuricTech Solar Expert Posts: 140 ✭✭
    Re: Where do you purchase 12 volt Batteries?
    Guest312 wrote: »
    I realized that.. Was going to use two 100 watt panels. But even that seems like it will not do diddly squat. So what do I need to do? Just want to power 32" LED HDTV, Laptop, and a fan. To start with. I just want to get my feet wet a little bit, I'm really excited about learning & getting some hands on time with some Solar Panels, etc. I did realize the output of the panels wasn't going to charge a 100Ah battery. There's just not enough daylight to charge it. I've been watching the sun, and it seems about 10AM to about 3PM is the most I'll get. That's only like 50Ah, at most. So.. Idk.

    What would you suggest, more modules right? Because if I have more modules (Panels), then that means more current going to the battery(s).

    Two 100W panels ought to be about right for a 100Ah battery (about 10% charge rate) , assuming average insolation. The question then becomes whether 100Ah of battery bank will support your planned loads.

    ETA: Since your planned system appears to be a "proof-of-concept"/learning system, you really won't have any critical loads, so you can shed excess loads as needed to match power production.
  • Guest312Guest312 Registered Users Posts: 22
    Re: Where do you purchase 12 volt Batteries?
    AuricTech wrote: »
    You really won't have any critical loads, so you can shed excess loads as needed to match power production.

    I don't understand what your talking about, can you elaborate please?
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Where do you purchase 12 volt Batteries?
    Guest312 wrote: »
    I don't understand what your talking about, can you elaborate please?

    If you are running more than one thing off the inverter and your power reserves are going down you can shut off loads to preserve power because all the loads are optional.

    This as opposed to a strictly off-grid system trying to run the whole household where it can get a bit dicey if there isn't sufficient power reserves - or a generator standing by to take over.
  • AuricTechAuricTech Solar Expert Posts: 140 ✭✭
    Re: Where do you purchase 12 volt Batteries?

    From what I understand about your system ("I just want to get my feet wet a little bit"), everything you'll be powering with your system can, if necessary, be powered with grid power. That being the case, if your system can't get your battery bank fully recharged for some reason (such as three days of heavy overcast), you can either reduce your use of your PV-powered loads or move loads back to your grid power ("shed excess loads") without disrupting your life. Then, once your PV system is able to get the battery bank fully charged, you can increase the loads again.
  • Guest312Guest312 Registered Users Posts: 22
    Re: Where do you purchase 12 volt Batteries?
    AuricTech wrote: »
    From what I understand about your system ("I just want to get my feet wet a little bit"), everything you'll be powering with your system can, if necessary, be powered with grid power. That being the case, if your system can't get your battery bank fully recharged for some reason (such as three days of heavy overcast), you can either reduce your use of your PV-powered loads or move loads back to your grid power ("shed excess loads") without disrupting your life. Then, once your PV system is able to get the battery bank fully charged, you can increase the loads again.

    Ok, got it, thanks. So basically, I need more solar panels. Using Grid power while investing in solar isn't an option. It's a waste of money to invest in something, then go against what I'm trying to accomplish, do without, or go against. I don't think two panels will work, I need more, or bigger panels.
  • Guest312Guest312 Registered Users Posts: 22
    Re: Where do you purchase 12 volt Batteries?
    Fuses

    Breakers

    Just one source

    Thanks for the help. Much appreciated. I will take a look at the links posted.
  • AuricTechAuricTech Solar Expert Posts: 140 ✭✭
    Re: Where do you purchase 12 volt Batteries?

    If you increase your PV array, you'll want to increase your battery bank size.

    400W of PV panel will support around 200Ah to 225Ah in a 12V battery bank, assuming average insolation. If you can find a use for whatever power your panels produce once your battery bank is fully charged ("opportunity loads"), then a modest amount of overpaneling is fine. Too large a PV array, without a way to store or use the power it produces, is a waste of money.

    ETA: Ideally, you should have about a 10% charge rate for your battery bank, taking into account a panel derating factor. For a nominal 12V system with a 400W PV array, we get the following figures:

    (400W PV array * .77 derating factor) / (14.5V charging Voltage * .10 charging rate) = 212Ah capacity of battery bank
Sign In or Register to comment.