Bad Neutral Temp Fix

KenZ71
KenZ71 Solar Expert Posts: 58 ✭✭
in General Solar Power Topics #1
So for the past few months, well before the solar panels were installed, been having a couple lights flicker and my Server UPS indicate street power was down only to come back in less than a minute.

It was annoying but not enough for me to do much. Yesterday, after six alerts from my UPS I called the power company. They had a crew here in a couple hours who determined I have a bad neutral somewhere beyond my meter. Now the best part the crew that would fix it are tied up for at least a week! So their temporary fix is what looks like automotive jumper cables attached to my meter leading to a large metal box and another going to the earth ground.

So, should I be worried about this temporary fix from my power company? I am not wild about my meter box being covered with platistic wrap!

Wil the UPS stop complaining when the neutral is fixed properly?

20141024_162903_zpskmw8tfmw.jpg
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Comments

  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: Bad Neutral Temp Fix

    If the neutral failure is between your meter and their power pole they should have fixed it and not allowed an unsafe condition to persist. If it is on the metered side you should have hired an electrician to make the repair.

    I don't know what they've done but it looks like some Rube Goldberg* rig to bypass wiring and create a "heavy ground conductor" to "pick up" the neutral that is connected to ground at the transformer.

    *There's even a Gedunk hound. :D
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  • inetdog
    inetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
    Re: Bad Neutral Temp Fix
    KenZ71 wrote: »
    So for the past few months, well before the solar panels were installed, been having a couple lights flicker and my Server UPS indicate street power was down only to come back in less than a minute.

    It was annoying but not enough for me to do much. Yesterday, after six alerts from my UPS I called the power company. They had a crew here in a couple hours who determined I have a bad neutral somewhere beyond my meter. Now the best part the crew that would fix it are tied up for at least a week! So their temporary fix is what looks like automotive jumper cables attached to my meter leading to a large metal box and another going to the earth ground.

    So, should I be worried about this temporary fix from my power company? I am not wild about my meter box being covered with platistic wrap!

    Wil the UPS stop complaining when the neutral is fixed properly?
    They may have provided you with a center tapped transformer winding which "creates" a new neutral by grounding the balance point between the two hot lines. It is what would happen if you had an isolation transformer which allows you to use the isolated neutral from the transformer secondary, but it is done with only a single winding.
    The ground is there just to provide a ground reference in case of a fault and not necessarily to carry much normal current.

    PS: The UPS will probably stop complaining when the neutral is fixed, yes.
    It may be not liking the offset of the neutral from ground, or it may be the phase to ground voltage tolerance when the load is imbalanced.
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
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  • KenZ71
    KenZ71 Solar Expert Posts: 58 ✭✭
    #4
    Re: Bad Neutral Temp Fix

    Thanks for the replies.

    Maybe I am foolish but I can't imagine the power co would leave big risk like a bad neutral. But then again I also would think when they installed the net meter they would have checked for stuff like this, that was only 6 weeks ago!

    If the UPS keeps whining I might need to make some adjustments. Will see where things go.

    Edit: the top metal box on the hand truck has a 100 amp breaker. Funky stuff.
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: Bad Neutral Temp Fix
    KenZ71 wrote: »
    ....
    20141024_162903_zpskmw8tfmw.jpg

    Looks like some good hillbilly engineering them folks got for ya..... Be sure to get a good photo of the nameplate of that lower box. But, yeah, I'll bet it's a CT transformer.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #6
    Re: Bad Neutral Temp Fix

    If the bad neutral is between your meter and the pole (is that what you are saying?), then it looks like they just put a 240 to 240/120 VAC center tapped transformer there. And they installed a "Generator Port" under your meter (and wired that to the transformer).

    The transformer appears to be a single winding auto-transformer type. It is probably providing a local "neutral" to your home (and using the home earth grounding system).

    However, because the 240 VAC leads from the pole are not isolated--I would be very eager to get the utility folks back and get their stuff fixed. Probably nothing bad will happen--But not knowing what has failed is a problem (don't know what you don't know).

    Are you the only home on that transformer? Anyone else having problems?

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • KenZ71
    KenZ71 Solar Expert Posts: 58 ✭✭
    #7
    Re: Bad Neutral Temp Fix

    All the labels say high voltage, don't touch. Or hot surface, don't touch.

    Not aware of any neighbors having similar issues.

    Not sure if the issue is at the street or somewhere between street and house. If it is in between that will be extra fun as the line is underground.

    Spoke to a neighbor who works at the power company, he said it looks like a common fix to get homes back online. We should be good in a few days. Till then I have made sure all smoke detectors have fresh batteries, updated my computer backups and move them to my office. What else can you do?
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #8
    Re: Bad Neutral Temp Fix

    WOW! I cannot imagine how doing what they did could be in any way easier than fixing the bad neutral - - - - unless the problem was within the transformer on the pole and they didn't have time at the moment to fix it. But still - - to design this contraption and haul it to your home, then make all the modifications to your entrance wiring so it could be used - - - boggles my mind!
    It's unfortunately not all that uncommon in my part of the world, for the neutral to go open between the transformer terminal and the house meter base. Perhaps the salt spray off the North Atlantic during storms might be contributing to this problem.
    Neighbour of mine few years ago had an interesting experience and was lucky her house didn't burn down! Neutral connection went bad at the top of the mast on her house. A Nova Scotia Power problem. They fixed it by cutting all three wires and running a new cable from the transformer on the pole to the mast on her house. Just one little problem - - - at her mast, they interchanged the transformer neutral wire with one of the house hots, thus supplying one phase that should have been 120 volts, with 240 volts. Took out her fridge, freezer, water pump, TV, and several smaller items. They finally paid up for their mistake, but she was lucky no fire resulted.
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