Opinions on "cheap" inverter charger

2twisty
2twisty Solar Expert Posts: 199 ✭✭✭
in Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems #1
I found this on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/ZODORE-Series-1000w-Inverter-charger/dp/B00FF3M6NQ/ref=sr_1_4?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1412130358&sr=1-4

It claims to have a 3000w surge, and 1000w will be plenty for my needs. Will the charger in this unit be enough for my battery bank (will be 416Ah @ 24v)

I could always get a separate 24v charger to augment this one should I need to run the generator, but that's not really all that often.

Thoughts?
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Comments

  • 2twisty
    2twisty Solar Expert Posts: 199 ✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: Opinions on "cheap" inverter charger

    And a similar unit, with AVR for a few bucks more:

    http://www.amazon.com/ZODORE-Inverter-Stabilizer-Automatic-Regulator/dp/B00FF4838W/ref=sr_1_42?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1412131154&sr=1-42

    Is AVR a feature we would want as off-gridders? It's common in UPSes, but I've never seen it as a touted feature in inverters for off grid.
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  • inetdog
    inetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
    Re: Opinions on "cheap" inverter charger
    2twisty wrote: »
    And a similar unit, with AVR for a few bucks more:

    http://www.amazon.com/ZODORE-Inverter-Stabilizer-Automatic-Regulator/dp/B00FF4838W/ref=sr_1_42?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1412131154&sr=1-42

    Is AVR a feature we would want as off-gridders? It's common in UPSes, but I've never seen it as a touted feature in inverters for off grid.

    The AVR feature is only useful when the UPS is what is called a dual conversion or always active unit. That means that when the grid is on the grid power is used to supply DC to run the inverter, which is then synchronized to the grid but with independent control of voltage and waveform.
    It is less efficient that straight pass-through but it does not run down the batteries, and allows an essentially instant transition to powering the inverter from the batteries instead of the grid-fed DC supply.
    The description did not go into enough detail to confirm that, but I suspect that is what the unit does. In which case the feature would only be useful for off-grid during those times when your generator is running to supply the AC input to the UPS.
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
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  • DMJ72
    DMJ72 Solar Expert Posts: 131 ✭✭
    #4
    Re: Opinions on "cheap" inverter charger

    That inverter is yet another clone / version of the Chinese PowerStar7 ..

    These inverters are known for their ridiculously high idle consumption. Did you notice this line under the spec sheet?

    "Idle Consumption-Search Mode: below 25 W when Power Saver On"
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  • 2twisty
    2twisty Solar Expert Posts: 199 ✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: Opinions on "cheap" inverter charger

    Lol. I hadn't noticed that. It can't be really any worse that the Harbor Fright 2000/4000 12v MSW inverter I'm using now.

    I'll keep looking, but I may have to go with something like this, since I really need to get to PSW and 24v and my budget is VERY low. If I had the cash, I'd spring for an Outback.....
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #6
    Re: Opinions on "cheap" inverter charger

    Did you notice...

    "Output Frequency: 50Hz +/- 0.3Hz"?

    Also not likely to run some of the items, Most power saws will be 12 amps, cut an oak board and...
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • 2twisty
    2twisty Solar Expert Posts: 199 ✭✭✭
    #7
    Re: Opinions on "cheap" inverter charger

    Whoops! Wow, those sneaky chinese! They sell products to US customers that won't work in the US!

    Thanks for noticing that!

    Any 1000w 24v PSW inverter chargers out there for <$700? Preferably with the AVR function. I like that idea since when my generator shuts down, the voltage drops off before my transfer switch clicks back over to the inverter and I sometimes have some electronics reboot because of the brownout. The AVR would keep the voltage steady until the inverter transferred over.

    AVR is not critical, since once I have a PSW inverter, I will put my sensitive electronics that don't like the brownout on a small UPS. I can't use it now since it does not like the HF MSW one I'm using now. It's always switching to AVR and complaining about it.
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  • DMJ72
    DMJ72 Solar Expert Posts: 131 ✭✭
    #8
    Re: Opinions on "cheap" inverter charger
    2twisty wrote: »
    Lol. I hadn't noticed that. It can't be really any worse that the Harbor Fright 2000/4000 12v MSW inverter I'm using now.

    I'll keep looking, but I may have to go with something like this, since I really need to get to PSW and 24v and my budget is VERY low. If I had the cash, I'd spring for an Outback.....


    If you really don't need the charger .. consider a Samlex 1500 - 24V for around $500.
    http://www.solar-electric.com/inverters-controllers-accessories/inverters/sasiwain1/samlex-sa-series-pure-sine-wave-inverters/samlex-sa-1500-124-sine-wave-inverter.html
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #9
    Re: Opinions on "cheap" inverter charger

    While it's an inexpensive inverter, I think the Exeltech xp1100, might be a long term reliable solution at $600 + shipping from NAWS. Of course that and a charger will cost nearly double the inverter you were looking at...
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • 2twisty
    2twisty Solar Expert Posts: 199 ✭✭✭
    #10
    Re: Opinions on "cheap" inverter charger

    OK.. Sow how about this:

    http://www.theinverterstore.com/2000-watt-pure-sine-inverter-charger-24-volt.html

    It's 2000w, but that's fine. I just won't really tax it much.
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #11
    Re: Opinions on "cheap" inverter charger

    I think Aims around here are considered boat anchors, at 41lbs, even with out a good cleat it should work for a lunch anchor...
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • 2twisty
    2twisty Solar Expert Posts: 199 ✭✭✭
    #12
    Re: Opinions on "cheap" inverter charger

    Can people chime in as to why they are frowned upon?
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  • zoneblue
    zoneblue Solar Expert Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭✭
    #13
    Re: Opinions on "cheap" inverter charger

    Theres two things about chinese inverters. They have a very high failure rate. That part boils down to luck, whther your unit was assembled properly and the parts happen to survive, more by good luck than anything because the parts are all the abolute cheapest avaialble. Secondly the design is minimal, too many corners cut, required protections missing etc.

    You really are doing yourself no favor at all even contemplating as cheap inverter, not for home use. The fire hazard alone should light warning bells all over it for you, if you think about it.

    The cheapest you should be looking at is samlex, cotec, exceltec and similar.
    1.8kWp CSUN, 10kWh AGM, Midnite Classic 150, Outback VFX3024E,
    http://zoneblue.org/cms/page.php?view=off-grid-solar


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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #14
    Re: Opinions on "cheap" inverter charger
    inetdog wrote: »
    The AVR feature is only useful when the UPS is what is called a dual conversion or always active unit. That means that when the grid is on the grid power is used to supply DC to run the inverter, which is then synchronized to the grid but with independent control of voltage and waveform.

    Why would an "always active" UPS inverter need to synchronize to the grid? I wasn't aware that any of them did that.

    That might be a more useful feature in a UPS that passes through the AC... if the AC goes down and the inverter must come on line, there might be some advantage to coming on line with the inverter AC in phase with the grid.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • Mountain Don
    Mountain Don Solar Expert Posts: 494 ✭✭✭
    #15
    Re: Opinions on "cheap" inverter charger

    That a Samlex 1500 - 24V is our backup inverter. It has worked well.
    Northern NM, 624 watts PV, The Kid CC, GC-2 batteries @ 24 VDC, Outback VFX3524M
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #16
    Re: Opinions on "cheap" inverter charger
    2twisty wrote: »
    Can people chime in as to why they are frowned upon?
    jcheil wrote: »
    I and several friends have had nothing but problems with AIMS products. I received a DOA one, then the replacement lasted 2 weeks. I finally forced them to refund my money (Not NAWS; I can't remember where I got it).

    Sure, they are cheap, but as you noticed, you get what you pay for. And your time is worth something right? So I agree, dump it NOW otherwise you will be spending more and more of your time messing with it until it finally dies at the worst possible time and leaves you stranded (or ends up killing your battery bank due to undercharging). All-in-one units are like all season tires. They "kinda do the job" but they are not really great in any specific condition.
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    I have a personal dislike of AIMS inverters, but Bill's explanation that you can't get a proper Voltage reading off MSW inverters with some meters is correct. Nothing to do with it being an over-rated, badly-designed, low-quality piece of junk. This time. :p

    Someday we'll see if we can get 'Coot to tell us how he really feels!

    VTMaps sums up my feelings with this quote;
    vtmaps wrote: »
    I have no personal experience with Aims inverters, but I wouldn't trust anyone who told me that their 12 volt inverter can handle 5,000 watts.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • Nila
    Nila Solar Expert Posts: 173 ✭✭
    #17
    Re: Opinions on "cheap" inverter charger

    Make sure you read my post here : http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?24798-Reasons-to-NOT-go-with-cheaper-chinese-parts-amp-devices-amp-a-Genset-QN
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  • Alaska Man
    Alaska Man Solar Expert Posts: 252 ✭✭
    #18
    Re: Opinions on "cheap" inverter charger

    My late uncle had a favorite saying and I have seen it proven so true in my life. He would always say, "Robbie, if you buy the best you only cry once". He went on............ "Every morning my cheap-a$$ brother puts on his cheap-a$$ boots and says, I hate these G*d-Damn boots, every morning I pull on these very expensive boots and say to myself, I just love these boots".

    The man had a way of making a point.......... ;-)
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  • Uncle Dave
    Uncle Dave Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭
    #19
    Re: Opinions on "cheap" inverter charger
    2twisty wrote: »
    Can people chime in as to why they are frowned upon?

    The users in my industry (pet grooming) aren't impressed with their operational efficiency, support, or ability to carry rated load before shutting down in total or derating.

    Lots of their lower end units don't come with temp probes for the charger- not good.

    UD
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