How to setup xw6048 offgrid with grid as a backup

Lapeart
Lapeart Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭✭
in Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems #1
I am setup xw6048 off grid system with power company as a backup
4K of Poly PV panel ( 4 string 16 panel)
outback flex 80
460 ah X 48V battery system
Power company is 220 split phase 50hz
offgrid xw6048 is 240 split phase 60hz

my issue
1) when the battery reach low batt cut off ( 46V) the xw6048 does not go to the grid even though AC1 from the grid is connected.
2) if I change the AC1 Hz to 48 hz the xw6048 goes into ac pass thought and don't use the battery
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: How to setup xw6048 offgrid with grid as a backup
    Power company is 220 split phase 50hz

    Where is this? If this information is correct you have a major problem: your grid is not compatible with the inverter. This also means it is likely any locally available appliances won't be. This issue needs to be addressed and resolved first.

    XW seeing 220 VAC 50 Hz on its input will not accept it: it is outside the parameters of the inverter. You should not be trying to use this power on the XW as it was not designed to take it.

    The only way around this is to use a stand-alone battery charger meant for 50 Hz connected directly to the batteries and activated via relay from the XW's gen start.

    As for pass-through of loads, again you have the frequency incompatibility issue. Your (non resistance) loads are wrong Hz for either the inverter or the grid. This issue can not be easily resolved.

    Most likely you need to change the inverter for a 50 Hz model.
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  • sub3marathonman
    sub3marathonman Solar Expert Posts: 300 ✭✭✭
    #3
    Re: How to setup xw6048 offgrid with grid as a backup
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    Where is this? If this information is correct you have a major problem: your grid is not compatible with the inverter. This also means it is likely any locally available appliances won't be. This issue needs to be addressed and resolved first.

    ...

    As for pass-through of loads, again you have the frequency incompatibility issue. Your (non resistance) loads are wrong Hz for either the inverter or the grid. This issue can not be easily resolved.

    Most likely you need to change the inverter for a 50 Hz model.

    Since the XW6048 is very expensive, if it can't be exchanged could something like this be used (A Step Up and Down Voltage Converter Regulator Transformer AR15000, 110-220 Volts) :
    http://www.110220volts.com/AR-15000.html?gclid=CNDGg_adhMACFehj7Aod_AYA0g

    Of course I've got no idea about the quality of this specific item.

    One other thing I was wondering about was the pass-through mode. Will the XW6048 pass through the 50Hz electricity without any problems, or will this somehow be damaging the inverter?
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #4
    Re: How to setup xw6048 offgrid with grid as a backup
    sub3marathonman wrote: »
    Since the XW6048 is very expensive, if it can't be exchanged could something like this be used (A Step Up and Down Voltage Converter Regulator Transformer AR15000, 110-220 Volts) :
    http://www.110220volts.com/AR-15000.html?gclid=CNDGg_adhMACFehj7Aod_AYA0g

    Of course I've got no idea about the quality of this specific item.

    Possibly. The specifications are somewhat vague. For one thing the Euro standard is 230 VAC 50 Hz and the North American standard 240 VAC 60 Hz split phase. It sounds like it's just a 2X transformer, albeit perhaps wound for 55 Hz (compromised efficiency between the two power standards). Actually shifting frequency is not easily done.
    One other thing I was wondering about was the pass-through mode. Will the XW6048 pass through the 50Hz electricity without any problems, or will this somehow be damaging the inverter?

    Another good question. I'm not sure exactly how the XW handles this. The wrong frequency will be bad for the charger circuit (which is integral) but the AC1 connection is bi-directional and so there may be a direct connection between IN and OUT or not. With a standard off-grid inverter there would just be a relay moving AC OUT from the inverter to the AC IN.
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  • SkiDoo55
    SkiDoo55 Solar Expert Posts: 414 ✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: How to setup xw6048 offgrid with grid as a backup

    In Grid Support mode the frequency has to be between 59.4 to 60.4 Hz. That is why it won't qualify the grid in. In charging on AC 2 input(generator) can go as low as 44 Hz. If I remember correctly the Conext SW is field switchable for frequency.
    GT3.8 w/4600W Trina 230W, TX5000 w/5000W ET-250W, XW4024 w/1500W ET-250W, 4 L16, 5500W Gen. (never had to use) Yet!!
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  • DMJ72
    DMJ72 Solar Expert Posts: 131 ✭✭
    #6
    Re: How to setup xw6048 offgrid with grid as a backup

    Here in Jamaica, they use the XW6048's grid functions such as Peak load shaving and even grid sell back on our 50Hz, split-phase grid. When I asked how they do it, someone told me it involved using the XW config tool to modify the acceptable ranges.

    I will try to find out more information if I can...
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  • SkiDoo55
    SkiDoo55 Solar Expert Posts: 414 ✭✭✭
    #7
    Re: How to setup xw6048 offgrid with grid as a backup

    Tried adjusting setting on my XW4024 with the ComBox and was able to adjust frequency and voltage to lower limits. So that may work. If locals have them in service I would check with them on settings. I would be interested in hearing what the output is when you have grid support on with 50 Hz input?
    There is a Conext XW 6048. 230V 50 Hz model also available.
    GT3.8 w/4600W Trina 230W, TX5000 w/5000W ET-250W, XW4024 w/1500W ET-250W, 4 L16, 5500W Gen. (never had to use) Yet!!
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  • Lapeart
    Lapeart Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭✭
    #8
    Re: How to setup xw6048 offgrid with grid as a backup
    SkiDoo55 wrote: »
    Tried adjusting setting on my XW4024 with the ComBox and was able to adjust frequency and voltage to lower limits. So that may work. If locals have them in service I would check with them on settings. I would be interested in hearing what the output is when you have grid support on with 50 Hz input?
    There is a Conext XW 6048. 230V 50 Hz model also available.

    just got it to work had to use the config tool to change to 230 50hz . I also change the LBCO to 42.8 and the GSV to 48.2
    only issue is the we pull 90 to 150 watts from the grid. anyone knows how to reduce this power
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #9
    Re: How to setup xw6048 offgrid with grid as a backup
    Lapeart wrote: »
    just got it to work had to use the config tool to change to 230 50hz . I also change the LBCO to 42.8 and the GSV to 48.2
    only issue is the we pull 90 to 150 watts from the grid. anyone knows how to reduce this power

    Your LBCO should be higher than that. At 42.8 Volts your batteries would be dead. I think you should raise it to 48, which when under load assures they won't be below 50% SOC.

    Xantrex inverters pull power from the grid all the time. I don't recall if they consider this a "feature" or just another unresolved bug.
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  • DMJ72
    DMJ72 Solar Expert Posts: 131 ✭✭
    #10
    Re: How to setup xw6048 offgrid with grid as a backup
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    Xantrex inverters pull power from the grid all the time. I don't recall if they consider this a "feature" or just another unresolved bug.


    Having reviewed the new XW+ docs, I was disappointed to see how they are going to do self-consumption by tweaking peak load shave. I was hoping for something like Outback's HBX. Sigh.
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  • SkiDoo55
    SkiDoo55 Solar Expert Posts: 414 ✭✭✭
    #11
    Re: How to setup xw6048 offgrid with grid as a backup

    I was told that it needs to pull some power from grid to keep it qualified. Don't know if it really needs that much but my XW4024 shows about the same amount. Haven't checked to see it that remains true if grid support turned off., if it needs that much. Should have watched today as I had sell turned off to see how it handled loads and followed the XW MPPT 60-150 for voltages. Worked the same as when sell on. Batteries still went thru full bulk, absorb, and float. Shifted back to pass-thru as sun got very low in sky.
    glad you got it to work.
    GT3.8 w/4600W Trina 230W, TX5000 w/5000W ET-250W, XW4024 w/1500W ET-250W, 4 L16, 5500W Gen. (never had to use) Yet!!
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #12
    Re: How to setup xw6048 offgrid with grid as a backup
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    Your LBCO should be higher than that. At 42.8 Volts your batteries would be dead. I think you should raise it to 48, which when under load assures they won't be below 50% SOC.
    I don't like 42.8 either, though at 48 Volts I would worry that running a microwave or such would bring it down below 48 volts long enough to kick out, assuming the battery was already at 6-70% of charge. I personally like the 46 volt number, though different battery banks will handle loads differently and this does represent perhaps 30% charge if you only have the draw of the charger and inverter...

    I run my microwave for 3 minutes in the morning cooking my oatmeal, hate to think that would kick me out until the batteries reached float. Though a 4k array is pretty minimal for a 460 Ah 48 volt bank.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #13
    Re: How to setup xw6048 offgrid with grid as a backup
    Photowhit wrote: »
    I don't like 42.8 either, though at 48 Volts I would worry that running a microwave or such would bring it down below 48 volts long enough to kick out, assuming the battery was already at 6-70% of charge. I personally like the 46 volt number, though different battery banks will handle loads differently and this does represent perhaps 30% charge if you only have the draw of the charger and inverter...

    I run my microwave for 3 minutes in the morning cooking my oatmeal, hate to think that would kick me out until the batteries reached float. Though a 4k array is pretty minimal for a 460 Ah 48 volt bank.

    LVD has to be maintained for a period of time before it actually shuts down. I don't know how long this is on an XW or if it is programmable.

    If you have a particular high-demand load that needs to be accommodated you can test the Voltage sag it creates and adjust the LVD downward by that amount.
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  • SkiDoo55
    SkiDoo55 Solar Expert Posts: 414 ✭✭✭
    #14
    Re: How to setup xw6048 offgrid with grid as a backup

    Delay can be set up too 600 seconds
    GT3.8 w/4600W Trina 230W, TX5000 w/5000W ET-250W, XW4024 w/1500W ET-250W, 4 L16, 5500W Gen. (never had to use) Yet!!
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