How long can a forklift battery sit during transport before it sees its next charge?

caribbeandan
caribbeandan Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭
in Solar Beginners Corner #1
How long can a forklift battery sit during transport without damage before it sees its next charge?

Let’s say a battery is sold from a warehouse in Canada and then shipped to Miami… Then it is placed on a barge crossing the ocean to the Caribbean. I wonder if forklift batteries are charged just prior to being trucked elsewhere. It could easily take 1 to 2 weeks from the warehouse to my home going this route.

In the Caribbean, I see electric forklift trucks being used so they are getting here somehow.

I guess the question at hand…is it safe to ship a used battery that may be at 90% or 85% of life; I seem to remember reading somewhere that these batteries discharge 1% to 2% a day depending on age when idle.

Perhaps a new forklift battery is my only option. How are new forklift batteries stored after they are manufactured? Do new forklift batteries require an initial charge before any chemical reactions begin?

I'm probably overthinking this but I would love to hear throughts and opinions from the forum.

Dan
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: How long can a forklift battery sit during transport before it sees its next charge?

    Self-discharge is more like 1%-2% per month.
    Even at a per day rate of 2% it would take 12 days before it was down to 75% SOC if it started out at 100%. Then it would have to sit for about three more days before sulphation began to get 'hard' and irreversible. Don't worry about it with a new battery.

    The bigger problem for a used battery is how it was treated in life and what condition it's in before being shipped. Not just less than 100% SOC, but less than 100% capacity; the sulphation that has already begun. If you're going to buy a used one, try to buy it locally not shipped from Canada. They probably import new ones for the forklifts you see, so used must be available.
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #3
    Re: How long can a forklift battery sit during transport before it sees its next charge?

    My information might not be any better than yours, but considering the added expense of shipping, I would think a new battery would be a better value when compared to a recondition battery.

    My lift battery was 'made for me' or so they said, I asked for flags since they couldn't under stand or price 10 foot leads. Though they may have had the cells prepared, I wanted one of the more popular sizes from a popular company.

    They are reportedly charged before shipping and mine arrived with cells in the 1.285-1.290 area.

    No problem with the battery being impounded when it arrives? I would think less than 20 days door to door and you should be fine with a new battery, a bit less with a reconditioned battery.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • caribbeandan
    caribbeandan Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭
    #4
    Re: How long can a forklift battery sit during transport before it sees its next charge?

    Shipping is surprising cheap for forklift batteries; by Caribbean standards. We pay more for a gallon of milk than a quart of rum. It’s about $250 to ship a used battery from Canada to Miami and about $340 to ship by boat from Miami to the Caribbean. New batteries shipped for free to Miami. Biggest cost will probably be renting a lift gate truck to move it 3 miles from the shipping dock to my home; about $200-$400.

    Given Cariboocoot's suggestions from a different post I think I am going to use a 24-85-17 forklift battery, 48V 1072Ah system with 6.7 Kw of Panels. At present its $5,789 from GbIndustrialBattery.com. If anyone knows where I can get the same new battery for less please share.

    My earlier post talks about requiring a 10KW (6.4 grid tie with battery) + (3.4KW grid tie only) system to participate in FEED-IN-Tariff (crippled grid tie). In short the utility company buys my power at 26 cents and sells it back to me for 52 cents. Seems to me it would be cheaper buying power from the life of batteries. Hell, the way the price of lead keeps going up is it possible the forklift battery may be worth more in 15 years then it is now? At least there is some recovery cost for the scrap lead.

    Based on last 12 months of energy use I am at 10,508 Kw a year this is kind of high last 4 months use suggest it may actually be 8,760 Kw should drop even more if I replace the electric dryer with propane.


    Status Quo no PV equipment involved projected cost is $5,411.62 paying the utility bill for one year
    Cost of New Battery with Shipping $6529
    If I go off-gird and use 1 out 5 years of life from the battery $1,305.80
    Assuming battery lasts 10 years $652.90
    Perhaps 15 years since it’s a new battery $435.27
    20 years, you never know $326.45
    I guess Midnight Chargers replaced every 10 years might factor in also...


    So I like the idea of 2nd system at 3.4KW that only sells to the grid and never buys.
    3.4KW X 4hrs = 13.6 KW energy production a day
    13.6kw X $ .26 = $3.53 energy credit a day
    365 X $3.53 = $1,288.45 yearly check from utility company plus whatever surplus from the 1st system.

    Other factors, summer rolling blackouts are common. Loss of power due to Tropical Storms and Hurricanes almost a yearly event and often power is shut down by the utility company before a storm hits. Power seems to drop for no visible reason like during the last super bowl game. Worse part for grid-tie only in the Caribbean is we often lose power during the day and you could be sitting in the dark at noon; solar panels idle. Average amount of sun in my area is actually a little over 5 hours a day. Stranger yet, the angle of the panels are usually best during the winter months.

    I have read that energy companies are no longer a safe bet for investment. Renewable energy finally making a dent in their profit margin and I fear the Federal government may remove the 30% tax return in the near future to slow things down.

    Dan
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  • zoneblue
    zoneblue Solar Expert Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: How long can a forklift battery sit during transport before it sees its next charge?

    Given your shipping costs, have you considered LiFePo4, they are 4 or 5 times smaller and lighter, rated Ah for rated Ah. Also more usable Ah per cell. Extra up front cost, true. Forklifts have much lower charge cycle efficiency too, we are probbaly talking a 20% difference. Shipping direct from China can often be quite reasonable. Just a thought, its not for everyone, and theres no clear consensus yet on the tech.
    1.8kWp CSUN, 10kWh AGM, Midnite Classic 150, Outback VFX3024E,
    http://zoneblue.org/cms/page.php?view=off-grid-solar


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  • caribbeandan
    caribbeandan Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭
    #6
    Re: How long can a forklift battery sit during transport before it sees its next charge?
    zoneblue wrote: »
    Given your shipping costs, have you considered LiFePo4, they are 4 or 5 times smaller and lighter, rated Ah for rated Ah. Also more usable Ah per cell. Extra up front cost, true. Forklifts have much lower charge cycle efficiency too, we are probbaly talking a 20% difference. Shipping direct from China can often be quite reasonable. Just a thought, its not for everyone, and theres no clear consensus yet on the tech.

    I started my research first with LiFePo4 from companies like Balqon... this is what they offer, price is 3 to 4 times as much as a forklift battery: They also need a special charger above and beyond what outback does with batteries. Balqon makes you buy the whole bundle instead of just the batteries; else your result may vary. Funny thing is LiFePo4 batteries are going down and lead is going up. Hopefully at the end of life of forklift battery the LiFePo4 batteries will be 1/4 as much as lead forklift battery.

    $18,275.00 not including shipping:
    52 Kwhr Energy Storage System - Lithium batteries 48 Volts connected in series. Pack Voltage Nominal 48 VDC; Pack Voltage Peak 60 VDC; Cycle life 3000 Cycles; Five year prorated warranty. Includes Battery Management system, CAN Bus monitoring of temperature and voltage control. Includes programmable master control display.

    Nominal Capacity : 52 Kwhr
    Battery Type : Lithium Iron Phosphate
    Battery Voltage : 48 Volt DC | 16 cells connected in series
    Operating Voltage: 42 Vdc to 60 Vdc
    Cycle Life 3000 Cycles
    Charge Voltage: 52.5 Vdc Bulk Charge | 57.0 Vdc Absorption Charge | 55 Vdc Float Charge
    Discharge Voltage: 45 Vdc Max
    Max Discharge Current : 300 amps at 80% DOD | 750 Amps at 50% DOD
    Max Charge Current : 500 Amps
    Operating Temperature -45 deg C to 65 Deg C
    Warranty : 5 Years Prorated
    Dimensions : 58 X 43 X 44 inches ( L X W X H)
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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #7
    Re: How long can a forklift battery sit during transport before it sees its next charge?

    If you have not rread this thread, http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?23898-GBS-LiFePo4-20-and-40ah-batts&highlight=LiFePO4, it is full of good information on LiFePO4 batteries
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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  • caribbeandan
    caribbeandan Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭
    #8
    Re: How long can a forklift battery sit during transport before it sees its next charge?
    westbranch wrote: »
    If you have not rread this thread, http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?23898-GBS-LiFePo4-20-and-40ah-batts&highlight=LiFePO4, it is full of good information on LiFePO4 batteries

    Thant is one very informative thread....quoting Cariboocoot from the thread

    "So subbing LiFePo for forklift you get the 1.6 ratio in capacity to correct pricing. And of course you need equivalent pricing.

    Thus 40 Amp hours of LiFePo is equal to 64 Amp hours of FLA. Or 220 Amp hours of FLA can be made up by 137.5 Amp hours of LiFePo. Never going to find an exact match of course. But that much LiFePo @ $250 per 40 Amp hours would be $860? Pretty far off from a couple of GC2's @ $266 for name-brand, never mind warehouse."

    I calculate that I need about 1024Ah from a forklift battery or 640Ah from LiFePO4

    16 X 40Ah = 640

    16 batteries at $980 each from electricmotorsport is about $15,680 compared with $6529. I think the technology is great its just beyond the reach of my wallet. If you have a good source for these LiFePO4 batteries even from China please PM . $15,680 does not include the battery management system, its probably going to be close to Balqom's complete system which is in a box ready to go. I have some quotes from a Chinese vendor on Ebay for Lithium forklift batteries and they too were still high. Thanks again for pointing me to the thread I'll keep tabs on it so see what else develops.
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