Filter Question

Ken Marsh · July 2014

Re: Filter Question

There is no filter that will make contaminated water completely safe.

What you should do is dig back in the spring to a place where animals, etc can not get to.
Dump in a couple wheelbarrows of gravel and put a sand point in it.
Cover it all back up.
Then use a conventional well pump with pressure tank.

DanS26 · July 2014

Re: Filter Question

Just a couple of things I've learned over the years about treating drinking water.....

Bird poop and rain water are inseparable.

Filters not maintained properly are worse than no filters at all.

Steven Lake · July 2014

Re: Filter Question

Well said. Hence why I plan to approach this with the "paranoid" level of care rather than just flying in blind and assuming all will be fine regardless of what I do. I know too much about water born illnesses to handle this with anything less than a paranoid mindset. I sure don't want to be one of those who wins the award for most Guardia infections. o.0;;

jcheil · July 2014

Re: Filter Question

Steven Lake wrote: »

...and then something like an Aquarain or a Berkey filter system with a 0.2 micron for viruses and the like that would be used to filter drinking water.

No filter can remove viruses. Only chemical treatment and boiling. So unless your filter "system" contains a chemical disinfectant matrix, then it will not remove viruses.

http://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/drinking/travel/backcountry_water_treatment.html

I know this because I do a lot of back-country hiking and even the specialized filters they sell can't remove them. They are way too small. When in doubt, always use a bit of chlorine.

Steven Lake · August 2014

Re: Filter Question

Okay guys, one more question, and this is more your opinion as I know what you've seen real world often varies from what the so called 'experts' say works. When installing the filters, where is the best place to install them in system? Before the pressure tank or after? I've seen combinations ranging from "pump -> pressure tank -> filters -> house" to "pump -> filters -> pressure tank -> house" to even one crazy setup where the filters were in line BEFORE the water pump. IE, filters -> pump -> tank -> house.

In your opinion, which combination works best, or doesn't it really matter? As for the experts I've found, the results seem to be a tossup between filters then tank, and tank then filters with the other two being the same.

Cariboocoot · August 2014

Re: Filter Question

Some of the positioning depends on what kind of filter you're talking about.
There are those that go one before the pump: coarse pre-filters and intake screens.
Then there are those that go on between the pump and pressure tank: fine filtration down to 5 microns (helps keep the PT bladder from being damaged).
And then there are those that go on at the point of use: active charcoal taste filters, ceramic drinking filters (no sense filtering the whole house for consumption use).

DanS26 · August 2014

Re: Filter Question

Steven Lake wrote: »

Okay guys, one more question, and this is more your opinion as I know what you've seen real world often varies from what the so called 'experts' say works. When installing the filters, where is the best place to install them in system? Before the pressure tank or after? I've seen combinations ranging from "pump -> pressure tank -> filters -> house" to "pump -> filters -> pressure tank -> house" to even one crazy setup where the filters were in line BEFORE the water pump. IE, filters -> pump -> tank -> house.

In your opinion, which combination works best, or doesn't it really matter? As for the experts I've found, the results seem to be a tossup between filters then tank, and tank then filters with the other two being the same.

I don't know if you are going the RO route....but if you do and you use a chlorinater, then you must have a charcoal filter before the RO membrane. Chlorine will eat up the RO membrane. Same is true for anyone on a public utility water system that chlorinates the supply.

Steven Lake · August 2014

Re: Filter Question

Hmm, that makes sense. Yeah, I hadn't thought about the sand filter before the pump, but it makes sense as it keeps debris out of the pump that'd eat it up. So with that idea in mind, if I were to setup my pump system using what you guys have mentioned, then it'd probably do it like this: sand filter -> pump -> RO (or other filters) -> Pressure tank -> house. I don't plan to chlorinate as it makes water taste nasty IMHO. As for separating filtered from unfiltered depending on where it's used, that'd be a bit of a pain given that we're in an old farm house. Getting to the regular pipes is hard enough as it is. Separating filtered from unfiltered or adding individual final state filtration would be a nightmare. So I just plan to filter for the whole house. Also, our well water has a good flavor, so no need for a charcoal filter. Another thing, the reason behind my idea of having the tank after the filters is I'd rather have the water pump handle the effort of shoving the water through the filters to avoid pressure loss at the downside end. IE, it's easier to absorb the pressure drop from the pump to the pressure tank than from the tank to the house. Or at least that's the theory. We'll find out for certain once things are in place.

DanS26 · August 2014

Re: Filter Question

Just a couple of things to know about RO if you are going that route. To make RO water there is a waste factor, which is different for each system depending on type of membrane and pressures used. So to provide RO for the entire household will involve sending a lot of water to the drain. My system which uses high pressure (180 psi) is about ~4 gals of waste water for every gal of product. That is why I only produce for drinking and cooking, I have limited water supply, especially in summer. Those under counter RO systems that use normal household water pressures only produce 5% to 15% efficiency or 20 to 7 gal of waste water to 1 gallon of product.

Also RO removes all minerals from the water....so RO water is tasteless. Great for making coffee or cooking. Pure RO water will leach minerals from your body because pure water attracts mineral ions in small amounts. Some people take mineral supplements to augment their daily mineral intake, but if you are eating a balanced diet, probably not a concern. I don't take supplements but my wife does.

Blackcherry04 · August 2014

Re: Filter Question

In my case I re-cycle all my RO bypass water back into the tank. I don't flush the toilets or wash clothes with RO so I get enough turn over that the TDS never seems to go up in the tank. With Rain Water I am not sure what the TDS would be and if the turn over would effect the system. With two tanks you could flush one from to the other as the water got very low and flush the remainder out and start over with the fresh tank as the empty one filled and there would be very little waste. Were talking about parts per Million, not something to get real excited about.

Steven Lake · August 2014

Re: Filter Question

I'm gonna be going with a spring fed system, as mentioned before, so water quantity isn't an issue for me. I did a test and this thing is running, at a baseline minimum, 3 gallons a minute (it's much, much higher after a rainstorm), so I doubt we'll run short on water anytime soon. ^_^;; But as for the RO producing absolutely squeaky clean water, that's good to know. However, as DanS26 pointed out, that creates its own problems. As such I may skip that and go with a final stage filter at the water source. TBH, that's really a good idea I hadn't thought of. My originally thinking was that I needed to completely plum a separate line from the primary water systems area (ie, where the pump, tank, sand filter, etc is) to the areas that needed the specially filtered water. But the idea of leaving things the way they are and to simply put end stage filters into the locations that need them greatly simplifies things. The only other thing I can think of that I might want to do is to put some 10 and 2 micron filters post-pump, but pre-tank to get the bigger debris that's inbound and leave the endpoint filters to do the rest. That'll make them last longer, and it'll keep sediment out of my pipes. Or again, that's the theory. I still gotta build this bloody thing, so all that may change as this comes together. Anyhow, I'll let you guys know what I come up with once things start coming together.

Blackcherry04 · August 2014

Re: Filter Question

Steven Lake wrote: »

I'm gonna be going with a spring fed system, as mentioned before,.

Apologies, I totally had your thread mixed up with one using Rain water from last week.

Steven Lake · August 2014

Re: Filter Question

lol, np. I've considered rainwater in the past, but around here, due to the cold, cold winters, it's not a practical system for me. However our spring is always live year round, so that'll be a perfect solution for us. To use rainwater collection you really have to live in a temperate area that doesn't see temps below 32F (0C) for more than one to two days consecutively that also has a respectable yearly rainfall total. I have the rainfall, but I don't have the temps to make the system usable. We spend at least 3 months of every year (up to 5) below 32F every day. So it wouldn't work for us here. Hence the spring fed system. Option 2, if this ends up not working, is a solar well. Beyond that we don't have anything else that'll work for us. I'd like to go with the spring idea personally as it's the cheaper to build (deep well solar pumps are EXPENSIVE!!) but if not, then we'll go with the well as we already have one on site we can hook into.

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