'NEW' Edison ''Iron'' Batteries - has anyone else seen .....

Ol'Dude
Ol'Dude Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭
in Advanced Solar Electric Technical Forum #1
I see there's activity in the former GE plant in Alachua, FL where GE made batteries for Black and Decker for many years.

The new people are building REAL Edison-type iron batteries, beefed up for solar applications and high current as opposed to running telephone systems. I don't know what Edison used for automobiles but I think those were lead.

Anyway, see: www.prweb.com/releases/IronEdison/USAbattery/prweb11887664.htm

From what little I've seen so far, I really want to know more...

Ol'Dude
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  • PNjunction
    PNjunction Solar Expert Posts: 762 ✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: 'NEW' Edison ''Iron'' Batteries - has anyone else seen .....

    I'm sure Mike can help you on that. NiFe are very nice batteries if they fit your application.
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  • jimindenver
    jimindenver Solar Expert Posts: 59 ✭✭
    #3
    Re: 'NEW' Edison ''Iron'' Batteries - has anyone else seen .....

    The store isn't far from me and it would be great to test them out on the RV, but at over $1200 per 100 ah, it's out of my league.
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  • verdigo
    verdigo Solar Expert Posts: 428 ✭✭
    #4
    Re: 'NEW' Edison ''Iron'' Batteries - has anyone else seen .....

    Hope they are available and cheaper in a couple of years when my GC2s give up the ghost. From what I have read that 100 amp hours will give you 80 amp hours of use with none of damage done to lead acid batteries for that deep of a discharge. Hopfully just having a bit more competition will drive the price down as time goes on.
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: 'NEW' Edison ''Iron'' Batteries - has anyone else seen .....

    They are a niche product. I can run for 2 weeks in winter with less than full charge, and not worry about "sulfating" them, and only a few generator hours daily (small 3Kw genset) But there are other pains, such as heavy water usage, even in winter, and electrolyte changeout every 5-7 years. I'm not looking forward to inverting 95# batteries and dumping "lye" out into some container without splashing. No way to work a siphon into them. But they are forgiving of less than full charge cycles. (but I'm not sure of the claim to discharge 80% of the way to 0)
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • verdigo
    verdigo Solar Expert Posts: 428 ✭✭
    #6
    Re: 'NEW' Edison ''Iron'' Batteries - has anyone else seen .....
    mike95490 wrote: »
    I'm not looking forward to inverting 95# batteries and dumping "lye" out into some container without splashing. No way to work a siphon into them. But they are forgiving of less than full charge cycles.

    I think I would get one of those plastic kiddie pools, and just dump them in it and let it evaporate.
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  • Iron Bran
    Iron Bran Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭
    #7
    Re: 'NEW' Edison ''Iron'' Batteries - has anyone else seen .....
    mike95490 wrote: »
    I'm not looking forward to inverting 95# batteries and dumping "lye" out into some container without splashing. No way to work a siphon into them. But they are forgiving of less than full charge cycles.

    The new USA Series NiFe batteries have a patented electrolyte mixture that will last the life of the battery. The manufacturer expects this new battery to get over 10,000 cycles, and the electrolyte will never need replacing.

    Also, the USA Series NiFe batteries include an integrated watering system which makes maintenance a lot easier.

    Attachment not found.

    Attachment not found.
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #8
    Re: 'NEW' Edison ''Iron'' Batteries - has anyone else seen .....
    Iron Bran wrote: »
    The new USA Series NiFe batteries have a patented electrolyte mixture that will last the life of the battery. The manufacturer expects this new battery to get over 10,000 cycles, and the electrolyte will never need replacing.

    I doubt the watering system will fit my cells, but would the electrolyte be available to end users if compatible with generic NiFe cells? (as pre-mix or powder?)
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #9
    Re: 'NEW' Edison ''Iron'' Batteries - has anyone else seen .....

    "The electrolyte used in the NiFe battery also includes lithium hydroxide, which can improve the battery's performance"

    the addition is also found in the KOH mix used in 'wet' NiCd batteries.
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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  • verdigo
    verdigo Solar Expert Posts: 428 ✭✭
    #10
    Re: 'NEW' Edison ''Iron'' Batteries - has anyone else seen .....

    How do you size a NiFe battery bank for capacity considering the difference in DOD from FLAs? I have read claims of an 80% DOD capability, but there is also the need to be able to recharge in a day. My batteries are about a year old and have had no real use, but I really like the idea of forever batteries or at least the rest of my life.
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #11
    Re: 'NEW' Edison ''Iron'' Batteries - has anyone else seen .....

    Sizing the NiFe bank. Several things. Higher cell resistance, so to reduce voltage droop, you have to over-size. There are resistance/amp tables for the different size cells. Lower power in winter, when cells are cold. Does that matter to your install ? (Baha or Canada) How large of a battery can you lift (with electrolyte) to turn over and dump out when changing electrolyte ? (although these new ones claim to not need changes). Big cells = big terminals, I had to make my own lug adapters, could not find any, anywhere.
    For recharge, assume 70% efficient, if you use 100AH, you have to replace with 130ah. That's a 10% larger PV array then flooded lead acid.

    But when the clouds come in winter, and charging is scarce, you don't have to run the genset for 6 hours to get up to 85% to prevent sulfation, for 2 or 3 weeks at a time.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • feedhorn
    feedhorn Solar Expert Posts: 103 ✭✭
    #12
    Re: 'NEW' Edison ''Iron'' Batteries - has anyone else seen .....
    mike95490 wrote: »
    For recharge, assume 70% efficient, if you use 100AH, you have to replace with 130ah. That's a 10% larger PV array then flooded lead acid.

    Oh the joy I'm having using my Lithium Iron batteries with 99% efficiency. Its like my solar array just got bigger all by itself. And the lack of significant voltage droop is so good too.
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  • verdigo
    verdigo Solar Expert Posts: 428 ✭✭
    #13
    Re: 'NEW' Edison ''Iron'' Batteries - has anyone else seen .....

    Lithium Iron batteries has to be a typo right?
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #14
    Re: 'NEW' Edison ''Iron'' Batteries - has anyone else seen .....
    verdigo wrote: »
    Lithium Iron batteries has to be a typo right?

    Not necessarily: LiFePo - Lithium Iron Phosphate
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