Lead Crystal batteries?

Re: Lead Crystal batteries?

Check out mjlortons youtube chanel. Hes been cycle testing lead crystal batterys for the last couple of years, and found them to remarkably robust.

Re: Lead Crystal batteries?

I just can't find any non-trivial application that would take advantage of going down to zero volts on purpose, even if it will recover.

One can shout marketing slang around like how robust something is, but if that robustness does not fit the application, it doesn't matter. Usually this means you paid way to much for a feature you aren't using anyway.

Let's be generous and say you have taken the LC batter down to 5 volts. Would you be able to start your car? Would anything run other than a dim dome-light?

Re: Lead Crystal batteries?

I think I finally got it about lead-crystal! In fact, I will now defend it with a BIG qualification!

If my recent positive experience with lifepo4 has taught me anything, it is not to look at everything at face-value, and concentrate on figuring out if the battery will fit into your service application.

The reason we're going bananas is that lead-crystal isn't really marketed towards those who know what they are doing, or have agm's installed in systems with LVD protection. They are really marketed towards those that don't know what DOD means, and are using them in simplistic systems that allow for complete battery drain, such as toys, emergency electric hallway signs, dumb ups-systems and the like. Recovery is usually obtained by a simplistic charge system, such as a low current wall-wart, and not a smart charger that will refuse to even attempt to charge when the voltage is too low.

In other words, they really provide no additional benefit compared to standard agms for those who know what they are doing, or systems smart enough to operate properly. In that case, if lead-crystal is all that is available, then go for it. In a smart environment, you'll be paying for a feature you won't use anyway, but if cost isn't too much different, then why not.

Example: If I abuse a Powersonic, UBS, or other conventional agm down to the dregs, reviving it means putting it on a bench supply, and very slowly raising both current and voltage very slowly over the course of many hours to revive it, provided I get to it on time.

If a lead-crystal battery was installed in my Sister's kids toy, and they abused it with a total discharge, instead of bringing it back to me for revival, given enough time with the toy's own little dumb wall-wart or internal charger, the lead-crystal will come back on it's own without a nanny. Same would go for totally discharged emergency hallway lighting with simplistic chargers that don't care what voltage they may see at the battery terminals. If it were a conventional agm, I'd have to remove all the batteries from the hallway boxes, and revive each one manually. With lead-crystal, they may all recover just fine on their own with the simple internal wall warts.

So my sister's kid and the office manager might think that lead-crystal was a big improvement over standard agm, and it is - in a totally abusive environment recoving from a total drain, but I wouldn't tell them that and take all the kudos I could get for being such a battery genius for installing lead-crystal. Of course as we've all noted, operating below 50% DOD does not mean operating well. It may mean nothing more than a dim glow of a lighting bulb, or a weak dying buzzer on it's way to the bottom. That might be ok for toys or hallway lighting. It is certainly not something you would do with a solar setup as your inverter or other load would have already puked on the low voltage.

It is too bad that the marketing material isn't just more upfront about this - perhaps marketing should offer a "standard agm for smart environments" and an "abusive lead-cystal for dumb environments" model series and be done with it.

NOW it makes sense. Better is a relative term, but you have to look beyond face value, and marketing hype to decide.

Re: Lead Crystal batteries?

I've used plenty of power-sonics. Most of what you see is the general purpose "PSx" line. For solar, you may be more interested in the deeper cycle "PG" line, but sometimes that has to be special ordered.

Most likely you'll want to use the NB (nut and bolt) terminals rather than the spade lug F1 terminals. The corporate site has spec sheets for each battery and a very good users-manual available for download.

Re: Lead Crystal batteries?

Pricing sounds about right providing you are REALLY getting them from an authorized dealer who will honor the *manufacturer's* warantee and not just some 3rd party.

Remember that the ones you see if they are the "PS" line are general purpose, and not truly deep cycle "PG" line.

In your area, HEAT while sitting around in the retail chain may be a big issue, despite their low self-discharge. High heat means you want to get these as fresh as possible. No matter what, I would not accept any battery that reads less than about 12.5v upon receipt - and that also means that you must look out for those that might try to put a little boost charge on a neglected battery knowing you are coming into the store with your multimeter. One guy saw me coming and did just that. Now I don't give them any warning I'm coming...

While NAWS doesn't have Powersonic, they do have the UPG batteries made by the UPGI group in the "UB" line. These are also general purpose, and would be the one's I'd choose if I was experimenting or doing a test run on my solar system in case I made a big mistake in my power calculations before moving to the more specialized brands. At least they have good docs and specs available online, which is a big plus in my book.

Still, just be aware of high-heat storage and shipping issues. Get them as fresh as you can.