Is there a 'warm-up' time on solar panels?

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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #32
    Re: Is there a 'warm-up' time on solar panels?
    Kamala wrote: »
    To the Moderators (current and former),
    Are you now theoretical physicists?! I'm certainly not. And I cannot call any other posters on this thread otherwise or not.
    K;)

    Kamala ol' pal (and anyone else who will bother to read this);

    No, we are not theoretical physicist. But those of us with real engineering degrees did have to study tons of real physics (both theoretical and practical) to get those degrees.

    It's a shame people prefer to listen to Internet rubbish kings rather than guys who know how to make the stuff work. All those hours of study went for nowt I guess. :roll:
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  • Arqane
    Arqane Solar Expert Posts: 31 ✭✭
    #33
    Re: Is there a 'warm-up' time on solar panels?

    Well, chemical or physical reactions do tend to propagate pretty quickly, but they also often take time to 'burn out' because they cause chain reactions. Increased heat often causes more reactions (happens in anything from a fire to a nuclear detonation). That was more what I was referring to. There is still often excess energy which is enough to continue to a reaction, even if it isn't the initial amount.

    So there's a very valid reason why solar panels might have a warm-up or cool-down period. But then, maybe not. And that's why I was asking. I know it's not a heat-driven reaction, so it's less likely. But there are other reaction drivers than heat.
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #34
    Re: Is there a 'warm-up' time on solar panels?
    Arqane wrote: »
    Well, chemical or physical reactions do tend to propagate pretty quickly, but they also often take time to 'burn out' because they cause chain reactions. Increased heat often causes more reactions (happens in anything from a fire to a nuclear detonation). That was more what I was referring to. There is still often excess energy which is enough to continue to a reaction, even if it isn't the initial amount.

    So there's a very valid reason why solar panels might have a warm-up or cool-down period. But then, maybe not. And that's why I was asking. I know it's not a heat-driven reaction, so it's less likely. But there are other reaction drivers than heat.

    Quite often the question comes up about what make PV's work. Many people are under the impression that they are thermal-reactive. They are not. Photons hit PN junctions; electricity results. As fast as light.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #35
    Re: Is there a 'warm-up' time on solar panels?

    Not a problem to ask the questions.. And it is not a problem to question the answers.

    In this case, as I recall, that same question was addressed in my old high school chemistry class when learning about Moles and atoms and there electron orbits.

    Many material properties that we use every day have some very amazing non obvious facts/behaviors.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #36
    Re: Is there a 'warm-up' time on solar panels?
    BB. wrote: »
    Not a problem to ask the questions.. And it is not a problem to question the answers.

    Well, that depends... I'm on thin ice at this forum and I don't dare discuss the possibility that batteries can become sulfated/stratified while under float charge.
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    And don't even think of nit-picking or arguing with me on this. There are certain people who are skating on thin ice in this forum...

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #37
    Re: Is there a 'warm-up' time on solar panels?
    BB. wrote: »
    ...
    There are very expensive particle accelerators that try to get electrons near the speed of light. That is quite difficult and takes a lot of energy to do that...

    Those are free electrons, not electrons in a conductive cable. In a cable, "electricity flow" (holes or electrons or fairy dust) is at least 80% of the speed of light. Last time I was playing with it, for the heck of it, was about 25 years ago in a nicely stocked lab with a Tek sampling scope. Oh, and tuning RF cable lengths within 0.05" to line up edges.

    If you are next to me, and I have a mile of cable wired to your handgrips, and I turn on the power, you will get a shock before you can let go . it's fast enough.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #38
    Re: Is there a 'warm-up' time on solar panels?
    mike95490 wrote: »
    In a cable, "electricity flow" (holes or electrons or fairy dust) is at least 80% of the speed of light.

    The impulse may be near the speed of light, but as Bill explained in post #12, the actual speed of the electrons through the cable is nowhere near the speed of light.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #39
    Re: Is there a 'warm-up' time on solar panels?

    gee, i'm almost sorry i went into this. sorry to you arqane for revving up the thread be it at the speed of light or as slow as some make it. in any case for all intents and purposes for you, there isn't a warmup time.
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  • pleppik
    pleppik Solar Expert Posts: 62 ✭✭✭✭
    #40
    Re: Is there a 'warm-up' time on solar panels?
    mike95490 wrote: »
    Those are free electrons, not electrons in a conductive cable. In a cable, "electricity flow" (holes or electrons or fairy dust) is at least 80% of the speed of light. Last time I was playing with it, for the heck of it, was about 25 years ago in a nicely stocked lab with a Tek sampling scope. Oh, and tuning RF cable lengths within 0.05" to line up edges.

    The only thing moving through the wire at 80% the speed of light is the electromagnetic wave. The individual electrons, holes, and fairy dust move fairly slowly.

    And for what it's worth, I actually do have a graduate degree in physics. I used to build computer models of colliding black holes, but I haven't been active in the field (professionally) for almost 20 years.
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  • nsaspook
    nsaspook Solar Expert Posts: 396 ✭✭✭
    #41
    Re: Is there a 'warm-up' time on solar panels?

    I post this somewhere here before:
    http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:rTslF-4YoGYJ:https://www.bpa.gov/PublicInvolvement/CommunityEducation/CurriculumActivities/CurriculumDocuments/ride_the_surprisingly_slow_electron_express.doc+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=iceweasel-a

    The "electromotive force" (electromagnetic fields) moves at near light speed, the electrons are snails.
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