Choosing a good generator

onanparts · May 2014

Re: Choosing a good generator

A very good thread so far but I would like to mention a few options for anybody that wants/needs more than just a generator or is on a budget and a new genny is not in the cards.

My primary backup is a portable Welder/Generator. 26 years young and has never let me down. It's a Miller Legend made in 1988. On the welder side it's rated 200 Amps DC and 225 Amps AC @100% duty cycle. I have pulled 250 Amps DC on a loadbank no problem. I use it for MIG with a suitcase wirefeeder or a spool gun. TIG/Heli Arc, and of course regular rod/stick welding.
The genset side is rated 5KW 120/240 Volts AC @100% duty cycle and no this is not a typo...10KW surge rating. The engine? 18HP Onan air cooled twin running on gasoline or propane.
At 600Lb's you don't walk around with it! It has a wheel kit for use around the shop/yard, a small trailer or I can bolt it in the truck bed.

AC power side is at 1800 RPM and weld side is 3000 RPM. It's very quiet, not a screamer. You can find these used anywhere from $500-$1500 depending on condition/age.
My 20 year old Honda EX1000 still works fine for low power needs but the Miller handles the large loads fine.

Another option for gensets only in the 4KW-6.5KW range are two cyl Onan's from the 70's, 80's & 90's RV's. They show up on the used market all the time. Typically with very low hours since most folks with an RV will plug in to the grid whenever possible. Note: If an RV genset can't be started up and tested for ouput etc. it's value is parts/scrap only. $50-$100 or so. During those decades 9 out of 10 RV's had an Onan twin genset in them for a reason. Quality! Stay away from the later Onan 1cyl models though.

A few pics of the Miller after some cleaning up a couple years ago.

vtmaps · May 2014

Re: Choosing a good generator

onanparts wrote: »

A very good thread so far but I would like to mention a few options

Welcome to the forum onanparts,,

Its nice to see you over here... I enjoy your "what is it?" thread over at Midnite. --vtMaps

onanparts · May 2014

Re: Choosing a good generator

vtmaps wrote: »

Welcome to the forum onanparts,,

Its nice to see you over here... I enjoy your "what is it?" thread over at Midnite. --vtMaps

Hi VT, I think my browser was stuck on the Midnite forums...:)

A few more pics here of my backup Miller Welder/Generator. The good stuff that's inside. Rotor is 75 Lb's of American iron, steel and copper. Stator is about 100 Lb's of the same.

JimNAZ · June 2014

Re: Choosing a good generator

There sure are a lot of pages for this thread. Can someone please direct me to the page that gives suggestions for best generators?

I have gotten mixed reviews on propane (great when running but lot's of trouble) so I guess it will need to be reguar gas.
Looking for something around 7500-8000 watts with around 10k start up. I will need to power big appliances (when needed) and power tools for building, along with smaller stuff on a regular basis.
I think I have narrowed it down to the Generec 8000 or the Troy Bilt 7500 watts, and leaning toward the Generec since reviews state it is quieter
Am I way off the mark here? If these 2 are the best choices - any feedback to pick one over the other?
It looks like Lowes offers both but only stocks the Troy

Thanks
Jim

vtmaps · June 2014

Re: Choosing a good generator

JimNAZ wrote: »

Can someone please direct me to the page that gives suggestions for best generators?

If you can direct me to a page that tells me what is the best pickup truck, or the best solar panel, or the best inverter, I will be happy to reciprocate and tell you where to find the best generator.

The best generator for your situation will depend on how often you use it, the climate in which you use it, whether you need automatic start, diesel fuel, how much voltage and frequency regulation you need, and dozens of other factors that are discussed in the many pages of this thread.

--vtMaps

BB. · June 2014

Re: Choosing a good generator

My observations about propane are just a single data point--There are probably many folks here that have other experiences too.

The best generators--The Honda, Yamaha, some of the Subaru and other type diesels are pretty good.

Generac has been a bit iffy with their residential systems (short life, maintenance issues).

Some like Kohler have rewritten their warranties to basically invalidate the warranty if installed off grid (no utility connection).

And, if you will want local service--Finding a local repair guy is important too.

In California--We are having issues with our local pollution control regulations. They now are applied to off road (tractors/construction equipment) and fixed installations (like generators)--In some areas, it can be very difficult to get permits for permanent installations.

It is even getting to the point where the state is requiring parts companies to collect information about the engine/installation address and forward it to the state.

Propane, can be easier than diesel regarding emissions control in California. And many of the genset options are no longer available here (legally).

-Bill

Mangas · June 2014

Re: Choosing a good generator

My 1800 rpm propane water cooled Cummins Onan RS series (20 kw model) is a very well engineered unit using high quality components.

I recommend it for larger solar applications.

A little more money over some of the others but well worth it in my opinion.

JimNAZ · June 2014

Re: Choosing a good generator

My budget is around $1000. I would like to have something for emergencies, charge batteries, power tools (we are building a house) and hoping to power a washer and dryer.
The local Lowes and Home Depots offer Troy Bilt and Generac. The online reviews lean toward Generac rather for quietness and running. I am not sure the size I should need but can accept over buying rather than falling short when I need it.
So I was looking at the Troy Bilt 7500/1000 for $899 or the Generac 8000 for $1199.
Please help me understand if I need less or more but I do not think I have the budget for a Honda.
* I was also looking at the Generac 5500 propane but read some bad reviews on running and maintainence

Thanks .

vtmaps · June 2014

Re: Choosing a good generator

JimNAZ wrote: »

My budget is around $1000. I would like to have something for emergencies, charge batteries, power tools (we are building a house) and hoping to power a washer and dryer.
The local Lowes and Home Depots offer Troy Bilt and Generac.

Most generators sold at the big box stores are standby generators. They are NOT long lived. Most of them have no warranty if used off-grid (because off grid generators get a lot of use). You get what you pay for. You could buy a honda eu2000i within your budget, and it will probably run most of your power tools and washer... one at a time. It will not run an electric dryer.

--vtMaps

westbranch · June 2014

Re: Choosing a good generator

for a few 100 $$ more than those you could get a Honda 3000i that would run a lot all at once, not so sure about that dryer...

JimNAZ · June 2014

Re: Choosing a good generator

Let's pull the dryer out of the equation. I'll find a gas one to convert to propane. I just did a quick search and the Honda 3000i is $1900. Way out of budget.
If everyone feels I can fulfill my needs with a lower watts gen I like that even better.
I know you get what you pay for however this is where I am at.

westbranch · June 2014

Re: Choosing a good generator

As a comparison, I have a 10Amp Makita hot-dog compressor. It makes a no name 3000 W generator I have, really grunt whenever it starts up, the Honda doesnt even blip...

I don't have a Honda 2000, but it would be my choice if I were to buy now, we started with the 1000i for dry camping in the camper. Primary purpose to charge the camper battery.

BB. · June 2014

Re: Choosing a good generator

Our Costco is offering a gasoline/propane 7 kWatt or so genset from Champion. Should be less than $700.

http://www.costco.com/Champion-7000W-Running--9000W-Peak-DUEL-FUEL-Generator-wElectric-Start.product.100112008.html

In general, Champion seems to make a pretty reliable genset from other comments here.

Generator will run 8 hours on a full tank (6.1 gallons) of gasoline or 5 hours runtime off a 20#/5 Gallon Propane-LP gas tank (propane tank not provided) at 50% load. EPA/CARB approved for sale in 50 States.

The issue with any genset is fuel...:

7,000 Watts * 8 hours * 0.50 load * 1/6.1 gallons of gasoline = 4,590 Watt*Hours / Gallon of fuel

Or, around 25 hours on your 100 lb tank and 50% load.

That is very fuel efficient--But only if you are running ~3.5 kWatts of load... Roughly speaking, if you cut to 25% of load, the genset will still consume 6.1 gallons of fuel in 8+ hours or so (reducing load below ~50% will not reduce fuel usage very much)...

The Honda eu2000i will run ~9+ hours on 1.1 gallons of fuel and a 400 watt load (~1,600 watt maximum, 4 hours on 1.1 gallons of fuel).

Which is better for your needs--I don't know. Me--I only needed a small genset and then I don't need to store much fuel.

Sometimes, your best bet is two generators--A small one for a few lights, TV, radio, washing machine, etc... And a larger one for the well pump/Air Conditioning, etc. (running only for an hour or so per day for well pump, or as needed for A/C).

-Bill

jcheil · June 2014

Re: Choosing a good generator

westbranch wrote: »

As a comparison, I have a 10Amp Makita hot-dog compressor. It makes a no name 3000 W generator I have, really grunt whenever it starts up, the Honda doesnt even blip...

Yeah my champion 3500 "barely" starts my 25gallon compressor also. But I have noticed, if I let almost all the air out of the tank, then start it up, it will start without as big of an issue. But when it tries to kick on at 80psi, it really gives the generator a workout.

And the gas dryer is the way to go. Even though the motor on the dryer will still pull quite a bit of power (and the ignighter for 5-10 seconds draws 500w also), the 2000i will run it.

BB. · June 2014

Re: Choosing a good generator

Jay, does your compressor have a working unloader that releases pressure on the compressor for starting? (most larger units should).

I had a need for a compressor to run off a smaller genset (another was to run a large compressor from home utility power) to do some painting once--And I did this by converting to a continuous run compressor+unloader--Worked great for what I needed.

-Bill

jcheil · June 2014

Re: Choosing a good generator

BB. wrote: »

Jay, does your compressor have a working unloader that releases pressure on the compressor for starting? (most larger units should).

I had a need for a compressor to run off a smaller genset (another was to run a large compressor from home utility power) to do some painting once--And I did this by converting to a continuous run compressor+unloader--Worked great for what I needed.

-Bill

I don't think so, and if it did, I guess it is obviously that it is not working anymore. It is 25+ years old at this point.
And it's one of those "reed-type" compressors which may or may not make a difference. And it does have a starting capacitor built-in.
Lucky for me, I use it rarely. Ironically, my VFX3648 starts it without any issues

BB. · June 2014

Re: Choosing a good generator

Here a nice webpage about unloaders:

http://www.air-compressor-guide.com/air-compressor-unloader.html

-Bill

JimNAZ · June 2014

Re: Choosing a good generator

Whew finally have internet installed - sorry for late reply
BB thanks for the tip about Costco. I got it and like it so far. Haven't really put it to the test yet but it works great and I love that it is propane!

Thanks again!!

BB. · June 2014

Re: Choosing a good generator

Glad to hear the propane genset is working well for you Jim. Keep us up to date as time goes on.

And I send way too much time at Costco.

-Bill

marsofold · June 2014

Re: Choosing a good generator

I raise rabbits in a well-insulated shed and worry about power failures during the summer when shed temps would be fatal without a running air conditioner. I need a 100% reliable generator able to be automatically started after a power failure with enough output to run the shed's 8000 BTU air conditioner. Can the Honda eu2000i do this? Would consider a Yamaha as a second choice. All other brands I simply don't trust.

Cariboocoot · June 2014

Re: Choosing a good generator

marsofold wrote: »

I raise rabbits in a well-insulated shed and worry about power failures during the summer when shed temps would be fatal without a running air conditioner. I need a 100% reliable generator able to be automatically started after a power failure with enough output to run the shed's 8000 BTU air conditioner. Can the Honda eu2000i do this? Would consider a Yamaha as a second choice. All other brands I simply don't trust.

No. The EU2000i is not electric start and has a manual choke. It's output is only 1600 Watts.
I think you need to go up to a larger generator to get the autostart (>3kW) and ensure there's enough power for that A/C unit.

mike95490 · June 2014

Re: Choosing a good generator

marsofold wrote: »

I raise rabbits in a well-insulated shed and worry about power failures during the summer when shed temps would be fatal without a running air conditioner. I need a 100% reliable generator able to be automatically started after a power failure with enough output to run the shed's 8000 BTU air conditioner. Can the Honda eu2000i do this? Would consider a Yamaha as a second choice. All other brands I simply don't trust.

The honda eu2000 is not electric or autostart. I think somebody makes modified version, but there is a larger honda inverter autothrottle genset that is electric start.

BUT. Inverter gensets have little "surge" capacity to start compressors, especially one that just shut off from a power failure and has high pressure on the compressor.

ZoNiE · July 2014

Re: Choosing a good generator

ChrisOlson wrote: »

Moral to the story - you're better off with a used Honda than a new Generac.
--
Chris

Agreed. If you can find a honda EV 4010 or 6010 with only a few hundred hours on it for $1,400 or less, You are money ahead. I found an EV4010 with 80 hours for $900.

I do run it monthly to keep the carb clean, but all it needed when I ignored it for a few months was some O-rings.

Overhead Cam water cooled with electric start.

Attachment not found.

Cool Breeze · July 2014

Re: Choosing a good generator

Hi all,

I'm buying a rural property that, although is on-grid, doesn't have the most reliable grid during the winter, stormy months. The house is pre-wired with a 30Amp generator panel that powers the sump pump, well, lights, etc. The basics. I'm looking for a good quality, whole home, standby generator, to power the house. It must be propane as the property is setup with propane. I have a Honda eu2000i generator, but it is not powerful enough. I've read through this thread, and it seems that there is a general consensus that Generac generators are not the best quality/reliability in the long run. So, with that in mind I've narrowed my search to a Cummins Onan 13kw air-cooled unit, that comes with a 5 year, 2000 hr warranty: https://powersuite.cummins.com/PS5/PS5Content/SiteContent/en/Binary_Asset/pdf/Commercial/SparkIgnited/a-1559.pdf

13kw may sound like overkill, but it is actually the smallest whole home generator that cummins builds. I also want to have enough power for the house and to power a battery charger/inverter for future expansion into the realm of Hybrid Solar.

Does anyone have experience with this generator?

ZoNiE · July 2014

Re: Choosing a good generator

A 4KW-6.5KW Onan or Honda RV Generator will do what you need for less $$ and you may find a good deal on a new or used one. See my previous post regarding the Honda.

Sakamochi · September 2014

Re: Choosing a good generator

Anyone have info or experience with Generac Eco gen 5816 propane 6 kW unit? This is is not a Guardian backup unit but an offgrid battery charger/backup unit. It lists for $3348 or so. It is aircooled and autostart. I thought it was a relatively inexpensive unit in light of my neighbors 12 kW diesel system which all in was about $12k (shed etc etc). We have big propane tanks so that's easy. They say 1-2 gallons / hour full tilt. We almost never need the Honda 4800 even in winter BUT when its sixteen below and its the third night of a winter storm it is really tough to go up the hill drag out the Honda and start it plus it runs out of gas in 2 hours. Our yearly average is just under 3kw per day but winter is tough with the heater roaring. The house is 2000 sq ft FYI.

Vic · September 2014

Re: Choosing a good generator

The EcoGen has come up here and elsewhere. Please search on " ecogen " ... here is an example:

http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?20211-Eco-gen-6kw-generac-generator&highlight=ecogen

There have been many issues when owners TRY to field-upgrade their gensets to 240 VAC output. That issue may have been resolved.

There was a member here whose EcoGen seized up at about 40+/-- hours, forget all the details.

There has been some EcoGen discussion on the Outback Forum, here is one Thread:
http://www.outbackpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=6304

Another here:
http://www.outbackpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=6496

And so on... Good Luck, Vic

IYAPYSNF · September 2014

Re: Choosing a good generator

Has anyone used the Smarter Tools AP-2000iQ? Costco sales one fore 599 and is uses the Yamaha MZ80 Engine.

oil pan 4 · September 2014

Re: Choosing a good generator

Anything mechanical from Costco is usually junk.
Anything under 3000w is usually cheaply made junk.
Single cylinder yahmaha generators I have used in the past shake them selves apart in a surprisingly short amount of time.
Any time a generator sells for under $700 to $800 MSRP is a dice roll.

Most of the generators I find at the scrap yard that are no-names like that "smarter tools", are usually only a few years old and are in the 2000 to 4000 watt range.

I bet when something breaks you wont be able to find parts for it. These cheap generator manufactures change their design every 6 months or so and when they do you can't get parts any more.
They make generators for people who don't actually need a generator.

BB. · September 2014

Re: Choosing a good generator

In general, I would have to agree that the Costco "no name" generators are usually not very good.

However, the Champion brand seems to be pretty good from reports so far. Costco now has a two fuel (gasoline/propane) version that looks very interesting. Only down side (for me) is it is ~7kWatt genset---I don't need that much power and it would suck down way more fuel that I would/could store.

One poster here (at least) has purchased and installed the Champion dual fuel--Hopefully we will get a review after some run time.

At this point, I would suggest a Honda eu family or Yamaha branded inverter-generator.

The Hondas, with good fuel and following oil change schedule should last more than 2,000 hours and a couple people here are running close to 6,000 hours with a bit of oil burning (with the eu2000i and eu1000i models)... The Honda eu gensets are generally not worth rebuilding when the engine dies (disposable by design). However, they do seem to work reliably when taken care of.

-Bill

Choosing a good generator

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