Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bank
Comments
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Re: Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bankBlackcherry04 wrote: »Just to let you know, I am there 1.265 across the board. It took 20 1/2 hours. I am really going to examine how they got this way considering that I had them on float ( 13.6v ) and I had equalized in mid February ... at 1.230 they were sulfated and 75% charged.
Bco4, Great that you were able to get them back up to full charge. Have been hoping this bank would serve you well. Do not know of many of these 1300 AH 2 V Batteries in service. Good Luck with them. VicOff Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes. 25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel, Honda Eu6500isa, Eu3000is-es, Eu2000, Eu1000 gensets. Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum. -
Re: Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bankBlackcherry04 wrote: »Just to let you know, I am there 1.265 across the board. It took 20 1/2 hours. I am really going to examine how they got this way considering that I had them on float ( 13.6v ) and I had equalized in mid February. I will agree with Vic at 1.230 they were sulfated and 75% charged.
You already answered the question how did they get that way?Blackcherry04 wrote: »And or Stratification. The only issue with that is it takes a much higher voltage and time than a normal recharge to deal with. Once I go above 16 V I lose the inverter on High Voltage cutout.
Batteries get stratified while floating. Once the stratification begins, it accelerates. This is because the electrochemical potential at the bottom of the plates (more concentrated acid) is higher than at the top of the plates. This can lead to some self discharge where the bottom of the plates are discharging into the top of the plates. It also means that during float charging you may not be reaching high enough voltage at the bottom of the plates to have much effect.
Now add in temperature effects: in the event that the top of the batteries are a bit warmer than the bottoms, the voltage issue is exacerbated because cooler means higher voltage.
BC04, Doesn't your Iota have some sort of automatic weekly absorb or equalization? That would be good for the batteries when they are not being cycled.
--vtMaps4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i -
Re: Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bank
Yes it does, every 7 days for 7 hours. That is what has me puzzled about how they got this bad in 45 days.
BC04, Doesn't your Iota have some sort of automatic weekly absorb or equalization? That would be good for the batteries when they are not being cycled.
--vtMaps
I am on them now and I'll change a few things around and figure their requirements. -
Re: Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bankBatteries get stratified while floating.
--vtMaps
No, they don't.
Electrolyte is a solution, not a suspension; it doesn't settle out just from sitting.
In order for stratification to occur some chemical action must take place. Discharging puts sulphur on to the plates changing the electrolyte density. This is fairly even across all plates. When recharging the sulphur is pushed off the plates creating a 'localized' heavier mixture just on the surface. That sinks because it is heavier: stratification. The Absorb stage creates mechanical stirring action (bubbling) which mixes the heavier solution with the lighter chemically bonding all and makes it consistent throughout. Insufficient Absorb time will not allow this to happen.
Some chemical action takes place in batteries regardless of whether or not they are in use: self-discharge. If you recharge a battery that has been sitting for some time it is the same as recharging one that has been discharged.
If the Float Voltage is not sufficient (with or without use) the battery will self-discharge albeit at a much slower rate than one which is left on its own.
Blackcherry knows what he's doing. I should believe his experiences if I were you.
And don't even think of nit-picking or arguing with me on this. There are certain people who are skating on thin ice in this forum and seem to feel they need to prove others wrong all the time. As such they seize any opportunity to point out a minor error and exaggerate it into a major mistake. Sometimes they obsess on one aspect of design or piece of equipment and parade it like a holy cause. This is not going to be allowed anymore. Attitude, particularly towards moderators, is an offense that will earn a suspension. -
Re: Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bankCariboocoot wrote: »And don't even think of nit-picking or arguing with me on this. There are certain people who are skating on thin ice in this forum and seem to feel they need to prove others wrong all the time. As such they seize any opportunity to point out a minor error and exaggerate it into a major mistake. Sometimes they obsess on one aspect of design or piece of equipment and parade it like a holy cause.
Sure that can be annoying, but as long as it's on topic it makes for healthy debate. (I don't see any of that in vtmaps' response BTW)Cariboocoot wrote: »This is not going to be allowed anymore. Attitude, particularly towards moderators, is an offense that will earn a suspension.
Eh? think I missed that part of the forum rules
Where does this come from all of a sudden? I don't see any "attitude" in this discussion so far and "attitude" on its own shouldn't be enough to earn a suspension as long as it's polite and within the forum rules. -
Re: Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bankSure that can be annoying, but as long as it's on topic it makes for healthy debate. (I don't see any of that in vtmaps' response BTW)
It is not in response to any one individual in particular. Always remember you guys don't see everything we do.Eh? think I missed that part of the forum rules Where does this come from all of a sudden? I don't see any "attitude" in this discussion so far and "attitude" on its own shouldn't be enough to earn a suspension as long as it's polite and within the forum rules.
Read 'em again. Moderators have the job of keeping this place on-track and civil and they also have the last say.
It's bad enough we have to shovel spammers out of here by the truckload; we don't need legitimate members deliberately antagonizing anyone. -
Re: Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bankBlackcherry04 wrote: »
Yes it does, every 7 days for 7 hours. That is what has me puzzled about how they got this bad in 45 days.vtMaps wrote:Doesn't your Iota have some sort of automatic weekly absorb or equalization? That would be good for the batteries when they are not being cycled.
Yes, indeed it does... Here's the description from the Iota IQ4 manual:If the battery has remained in the Float State for seven days, the IQ4 automatically provides an equalization charge to dissolve any sulfate layer on the battery’s plates and to avoid stratification.
btw, I believe that what they call equalization is really at bulk/absorb voltage.
If the Iota folks read this forum they would realize how silly it is to equalize or absorb batteries that are floating.
--vtMaps4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i -
Re: Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bank
Thats correct it is only a Bulk/Absorb, but as the charger comes it's 14.2 / 13.8 and that is really to low in my opinion for these batteries. ( if I raise it also raises the Float voltage ) I am looking at all options, I bought these batteries as a experiment and willing to do whats necessary to see the out come. I am not here to whine about them, just to share with everyone how they react to different things. I can play with voltage and times and see the outcomes. I still think there could be a issue with the plates forming because of the cycles. For the next 7 months I will be with them 24/7. I hope to share it with you guys.Yes, indeed it does... Here's the description from the Iota IQ4 manual:
btw, I believe that what they call equalization is really at bulk/absorb voltage.
If the Iota folks read this forum they would realize how silly it is to equalize or absorb batteries that are floating.
--vtMaps
There is no problem to run a short charge once a week at some Time and Voltage to keep the stratification and SG's up if thats the problem, I just have to figure what it is. I am going to let them float a couple days and see where they go.
I asked IOTA if they would change the IQ-4 programming, they will for a Bulk purchase ( never said how many units ) This may be area where collectively we could come up with a new program with correct voltage's. It would be a piece of cake with the plug in module to have them custom done, they only cost $15.00. Maybe NAWS would be interested.
. -
Re: Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bankCariboocoot wrote: »No, they don't.
Electrolyte is a solution, not a suspension; it doesn't settle out just from sitting.
In order for stratification to occur some chemical action must take place. Discharging puts sulphur on to the plates changing the electrolyte density. This is fairly even across all plates. When recharging the sulphur is pushed off the plates creating a 'localized' heavier mixture just on the surface. That sinks because it is heavier: stratification. The Absorb stage creates mechanical stirring action (bubbling) which mixes the heavier solution with the lighter chemically bonding all and makes it consistent throughout. Insufficient Absorb time will not allow this to happen.
Some chemical action takes place in batteries regardless of whether or not they are in use: self-discharge. If you recharge a battery that has been sitting for some time it is the same as recharging one that has been discharged.
If the Float Voltage is not sufficient (with or without use) the battery will self-discharge albeit at a much slower rate than one which is left on its own.
Blackcherry knows what he's doing. I should believe his experiences if I were you.
Interesting.
Some relatively credible authorities (not to be named here, unfortunately) think that stratification does occur in cells on long term float (without charge/discharge cycling??? see last paragraph).
There is always some chemical action going on during float, related to self-discharge, electrolysis, etc., any time that current if flowing. And current definitely flows during Float.
Now the effect could not be anywhere near the speed at which stratification happens during deep discharge cycles without gassing on recharge, but IMHO it is still there.
I agree with you 100% that stratification of the electrolyte will not happen spontaneously from "settling". But at the same time any chemical action which is not taking place uniformly from top to bottom of the plate can create stratification in the liquid. The higher SG of the stronger electrolyte solution will cause the resulting stratification to be stable except for the effects of diffusion from essentially Brownian Motion.
Cells in cars, boats, etc. will get enough mechanical action that stratification should not be a problem.
And the idea that sulfate builds up on the plates during float and needs to be dealt with somehow seems as ridiculous to me as it does to you. Unless the so called Float voltage is way too low and leaves the cells below ~80% SOC of course.
It just occurred to me that there is a way that both sides of the discussion could be correct, based on a different understanding of the problem.
Case 1. Batteries on constant Float charge, with no discharge cycles for any reason. The Float current will never go above the self-discharge makeup current.
Very little probability of stratification IMHO, but I would not rule it out since I have not tried the experiment.
Case 2. Batteries are connected to a constant voltage charger set to the battery float voltage. There will be no Bulk, Absorb or Equalize stages. One voltage fits all.
Now this bank of batteries may be routinely tested and called upon to provide its design load for say 30 minutes once a week.
You could call Case 2 "batteries on constant Float", but the difference is that there are charge/discharge cycles where the charging voltage never goes above the Float setting.
In Case 2, I think it is highly likely that stratification will build up over time unless something is done to reverse it.
Just my two cents in an attempt to resolve otherwise unexplained differences of opinion. :-)SMA SB 3000, old BP panels. -
Re: Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bank
Well yes. Did you read what I wrote carefully? No, you didn't did you because you've just repeated it. -
Re: Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bankAnd the idea that sulfate builds up on the plates during float and needs to be dealt with somehow seems as ridiculous to me as it does to you.
As I quoted above, Iota does a weekly equalization (to prevent stratification) of a battery that is floating. Also Progressive Dynamics makes a battery charger and says:The Charge Wizard will automatically select its STORAGE MODE of operation (13.2-volts) once the battery reaches full charge and remains unused for a period of 30 hours. This feature is standard on all of Progressive Dynamics Marine Battery Chargers.
At a charging voltage of 13.2 volts, the converter/charger will maintain a full charge, reduce gassing and water loss. However, this lower voltage does not provide enough gassing to prevent a battery condition called Battery Stratification.
In order to prevent Battery Stratification, an Equalization Charge (increasing charging voltage to 14.4-volts) must be applied periodically. The Charge Wizard automatically selects its EQUALIZATION MODE (14.4 volts) every 21 hours for a period of 15 minutes.
Is it possible that the battery charger manufacturers know something we don't know about floating batteries?
--vtMaps4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i -
Re: Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bankIs it possible that the battery charger manufacturers know something we don't know about floating batteries?
--vtMaps
Depends on which batteries, see? They're trying to build universal chargers that will work on anything, but without the programming capabilities of the Outback's built-in charger.
It's the same as picking batteries for RE: since every system is a little different there will not be a perfect fit battery anywhere. Everything is always a compromise and we just do the best we can with what we've got.
Since these stand-alone chargers are usually part of smaller systems the slight (perhaps immeasurable) drop in battery life from less-than-perfect charging is less of an economic factor than it would be with a large system.
Let's face it: batteries are a big weak point in RE. -
Re: Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bank
Well can we ask the question another way: what exactly happens to a battery on long term float? What does it die of?
Second question: how much of a cycle is enough to avoid whatever that issue is, eg heres my SOC for the last few weeks.
Attachment not found.1.8kWp CSUN, 10kWh AGM, Midnite Classic 150, Outback VFX3024E,
http://zoneblue.org/cms/page.php?view=off-grid-solar -
Re: Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bankWell can we ask the question another way: what exactly happens to a battery on long term float? What does it die of?
Plate depolarization caused by oxide migration. The inevitable result of having dissimilar metals in an electrolyte solution. Chemical action does take place, it's just slow. When you cycle the battery part of that cycling includes accelerating the chemical action in each direction, which includes reversing the oxide migration.Second question: how much of a cycle is enough to avoid whatever that issue is, e.g. here's my SOC for the last few weeks.
Attachment not found.
That is a darn good question. Unfortunately its one that depends on the particular battery and one that the makers will tell you about based on a cycle life curve. How well that fits with your usage is another matter. -
Re: Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bank
BTW experience of myself and other shows 25% daily DOD seems to be the most practical for most systems, so your usage is rather light.
Also you know that if you discharge a battery past 'dead' you can actually reverse the polarity? I expect any day now someone will decide that means you never have to recharge a battery; just discharge it until the polarity and SOC reverse and then hook it up the other way and repeat!
Until we get those magnetic bottles we can store 'loose' electrons in we're stuck.
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Re: Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bank
Back on the Surrettes today, I left them floating on Sunday @ 13.8 V and 1.265 SG level. They were the same today and I did a 30% discharge on them. I let them charge back with bulk /absorb of 14.7v and a EA of 2 amps. I let them rest for a couple hrs and the SG 's were @ 1.245.
Based on these batteries, Ending Amps will get you into a hole fast. I have them on charge @ 15v for a couple hrs and trying to see how long it takes for them to come up .020 points. I can raise the absorb voltage .2 or .3, but at 15 V I might as well EQ them every cycle. All these numbers are calibrated, so I know them to be true voltages. -
Re: Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bank
Hi Bc04,
Interesting. In a previous post, I was wondering about your EA setting. Believe that previously you said that the EA was 4 (A) at 59.2 or 59.4V. My similar sized AH Surrette banks would simply never stop Absorbing based on EA at 4 A (let alone 2A), not even with my 58.2-ish V and WBjr measured current.
What charger are you using, what is the Shunt, what hardware terminates the Absorb ?
Just curious ... These EA currents are .3% or nominal 20 hr Capacity and below. These batteries are young, believe that they were essentially mothballed for the Winter (on Float). Wonder how many cycles to 50-ish percent they have under their belts.
Am not challenging you, just curious, ... know that you have lots of experience with batteries, but am curious.
Thanks for the update. VicOff Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes. 25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel, Honda Eu6500isa, Eu3000is-es, Eu2000, Eu1000 gensets. Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum. -
Re: Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bank
I enjoy your input. I am using a Xanterx SW 3012 and it's internal current measurement, To get the 2 amp ending I have it set on a 400 amp hr bank even though this is a 1300 amp hr bank. There is also 180 minute limit ( 3 hrs ) on the absorb so I don't doubt it's ending early.Hi Bc04,
Interesting. In a previous post, I was wondering about your EA setting. Believe that previously you said that the EA was 4 (A) at 59.2 or 59.4V. My similar sized AH Surrette banks would simply never stop Absorbing based on EA at 4 A (let alone 2A), not even with my 58.2-ish V and WBjr measured current.
What charger are you using, what is the Shunt, what hardware terminates the Absorb ?
Just curious ... These EA currents are .3% or nominal 20 hr Capacity and below. These batteries are young, believe that they were essentially mothballed for the Winter (on Float). Wonder how many cycles to 50-ish percent they have under their belts.
Am not challenging you, just curious, ... know that you have lots of experience with batteries, but am curious.
Thanks for the update. Vic
I am now at 5 hrs of 15v and have raised the SG's about .15 points, at this rate it'll be at least 2 more hours ( total of 7 hrs ) to get back to where I started this morning.
They have only had 4-5 , 50% discharges to this point. -
Re: Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bankI was wondering about your EA setting. Believe that previously you said that the EA was 4 (A) at 59.2 or 59.4V. My similar sized AH Surrette banks would simply never stop Absorbing based on EA at 4 A (let alone 2A), not even with my 58.2-ish V and WBjr measured current.
The low end amps probably means the batteries are sulfated a bit.
On a tall battery, if Vabs is too low or for too short a time to stir the electrolyte, stratification builds up and the concentrated acid causes sulfation on the bottom of the plates. Same thing happens if the charging current is too low... you can get to Vabs with a low end amps.
Inetdog and I have written about "false" end amps in the stratification thread:
Yes! good thinking. The battery can be charged up and reach an equilibrium, an 'end amps', but that equilibrium is in a stratified cell. --vtMapsinetdog wrote:A fully charged battery which has been Absorbed for a longer time at a lower voltage will not gas at all, I think. So you could end up with a fully charged battery every day but still have stratification.
There is a discussion over at Outback about setting the "charge complete" parameters on the FNDC (Outback's battery monitor). Tallgirl wrote:
She continues:Tallgirl wrote:Instead of reaching absorb on high current, a situation where the current is barely enough to even =reach= absorb will result in the voltage and current values being satisfied. That's how it starts, and from there, it progresses.Tallgirl wrote:Once the batteries are slightly under-charged, sulfation begins. Sulfation causes the "return current" to drop, which is the same behavior as being fully charged for properly maintained batteries. The more the batteries are sulfated, the more the "return current" declines, the easier the parameters are to meet, the more undercharged the batteries become.
BC04, I think that the automatic "equalization" that Iota does every 7 days is not at high enough voltage to stir the electrolyte on your tall batteries. Tallgirl's point about charging current is interesting. When you do bulk charging you have adequate current (about C/10), but the long term float appears to be acting like the "fully charged battery which has been Absorbed for a longer time at a lower voltage" that inetdog wrote about.
--vtMaps4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i -
Re: Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bank
I agree with you that the voltage is to low. I will test it over the summer, the only worry is that if it's to high would there be a cumulative effect. I really don't hear or see much gassing below the 15 V range. They were definitely sulfated last week, this week total different issue. I am going back to a timed absorb, based on the charge from yesterday, I am going to take a big swing at them. I still think there is a partial plate charge going on.BC04, I think that the automatic "equalization" that Iota does every 7 days is not at high enough voltage to stir the electrolyte on your tall batteries. Tallgirl's point about charging current is interesting. When you do bulk charging you have adequate current (about C/10), but the long term float appears to be acting like the "fully charged battery which has been Absorbed for a longer time at a lower voltage" that inetdog wrote about.
--vtMaps -
Re: Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bank
Several thoughts;
One, is that it can be difficult to accurately measure low battery charge currents -- like 3 Amps when full scale is 150 - 200 A. So, it might be possible that the charger is not really delivering these low currents that it believes that it is.
The Stratification issue may be real.
Have been skipping full charge for several days, followed by on full charge day. This has not SEEMED detrimental to either of the Classic-charged banks here. It appears that a substantial recharge occurs at Vfloat, based on the currents observed at that voltage. realize that there is essentially no gassing at Vfloat.
The large bank that was "Floated" here, was really re-charged almost every day by PV, and cycled only every 20 - 30 days ... not the best for that bank.
Have only ever used EA as an Absorb terminator, and have not seen any problems caused by that method.
Presently, the EA value is 11.9 WhizBang Jr Amps on a 1280 "real" AH on a 1350 AH advertised Surrette bank.
Batteries and their charging strategies are sure fun! Especially, when things work out. VicOff Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes. 25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel, Honda Eu6500isa, Eu3000is-es, Eu2000, Eu1000 gensets. Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum. -
Re: Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bank
Here is an update. I have ordered 6 2 volt cells from BBI Battery. They are the 19 plate 85a, so 765ah (6hr rate). They should be arrive the first part of next week. I had to get them without a tray since the size tray I need is special order and would take 3 weeks. :-(
I paid $318 each including shipping, which seems like a decent deal. I can comment more on who I used and why, but am not sure on the forum rules on sources and prices.
So I am going to have to install them without the tray for one trip, I can secure them such that they are tight and not allow the sides to bulge and will then install the tray in a few weeks. So I have a few questions:
1) Can someone point me to a good guide on initial commissioning? I have read some various posts, but haven't seen a great guide.
2) I ordered them all with flag terminals, so I will have 5 interconnects to series the set into a 12v bank. As far as cabling, I will be using 4/0 positive and negative to my inverter. Both are about 36" long. Do they need to be equal length?
on the interconnects, I will probably use cables, I assume these should also be 4/0 and all the same length? I may consider busbars if the layout works. Ideally they would have all been soldered busbars if the tray had been in stock and available, but I couldn't wait.
3) If my 6hr rate is 765ah, what is my 20hr rate? GB Battery says it is 1.57x the 6hr, so 1201ah, but other sources indicate about 33% more. How do I calculate this?
Thanks! -
Re: Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bank
re the inter cell connections, did you ask if they (bars) could be bought and bolted together?
BBI is the one to ask about ''commissioning" procedures, 20 Hr rate, etc.
KID #51B 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
West Chilcotin, BC, Canada -
Re: Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bank
nowayout
I called the number on the invoice I got from BBI. They have a tech guy with the last name becker or backer. I am not at home and my mind is goings cause I just can't remember exactly. I can remember he is knowledgeable about the batteries they build and willing to be helpful. Hope this helps.
gww -
Re: Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bank
None of these cables needs to be the same length. In a single series circuit all of the battery interconnects and inverter-battery cables can be different lengths. Use this fact to lay out your system with the shortest overall cable length.As far as cabling, I will be using 4/0 positive and negative to my inverter. Both are about 36" long. Do they need to be equal length?
on the interconnects, I will probably use cables, I assume these should also be 4/0 and all the same length?
Bus bars are controversial... in some types of batteries the positive posts bulge as they get old, and it probably doesn't help to constrain that bulging movement with bus bars.I may consider busbars if the layout works. Ideally they would have all been soldered busbars if the tray had been in stock and available, but I couldn't wait.
As far as your environment is concerned, I would ask BBI if they recommend bus bars on a motorhome battery bank. Bus bars can put a lot of mechanical stress on a battery post. They also make it more difficult to remove a cell from the bank, in the event that is needed.
--vtMaps4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i -
Re: Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bank
VT pretty much nailed the reasons I would say for having flexible connections on the interconnects and the ability to be able to isolate the individual cells. I hope you have some kind of strap made up to lift those cells when you get them. The jars are not all that strong and are hard to deal with without the proper equipment. Some of the posts cannot hold the weight of the cell. -
Re: Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bank
Thanks vtMaps and Blackcherry04 for the heads up. Based on your info I will use flexible interconnects. The are going in a side bay, so can't drop them in vertically, but have to be slid in sideways into a side bay. I have a forklift where I install them and will raise them up to the exact level of the bay and slide them in.
I have reached out to BBI on the commissioning, but nothing back yet. I am also looking at the BFS watering system. www.batteryfillingsystems.com
I know I only have 6 cells to check, but have seen some good comments on BFS.
I'll keep you posted how it goes!
Thanks for all the help. -
Re: Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bank
A watering system sounds like a good idea. It'll make it a bit harder to check the SG's, I'd have plenty of slack in the tubing so you can pull them without removing all of them at the same time. I installed a " Blinky " on one of my cells, It has a led that blinks when the water is 1/2" or more above the top of the plates. You can find them on e-bay for $10 or so. They come different lengths, but you have to custom cut them to fit your cell depth anyway.
http://www.phlsci.com/product/2/14
Tip: Some silicone spray on the surface will make it a lot easier to slide the batteries around. I have a sheet of plastic like you use to move appliances on, that helps at times. -
Re: Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bank
Update: I received my batteries yesterday...and what beautiful batteries they are! They seem to be very well made, quality product. :-)
Attachment not found.Attachment not found.
1) I reached out to BBI for commissioning info, they said no commissioning or equalize needed. They said they were charged and ready to go. This sort of surprised me.
2) They indicated the charging voltages to be "85-100amps to 2.42-2.5 VPC. Float depends on temperature, 2.1VPC at 77F." No response was given on equalize voltage.
3) The electrolyte is just to the top of the yellow splash guard. So a little needed water needs to be added to each once they are installed. I don't think any leaked out in transit.
4) What is the consensus on watering systems? I know that BFS out of Germany was repped by BWT (Battery Watering Technologies) for a while, but they dropped them when they developed their own system. http://www.batterywatering.com/
BFS from Germany does seems to be a quality product, but not sure where to buy it now. I do like that there is a port to measure SG without removing the plug, (not sure if every system has this)
Not sure on Battery Watering Technology. Is there a consensus or someone else I should look at?
I'll get these installed in the next 48 hours. Thanks for the input and discussion on my project, it is MUCH appreciated! -
Re: Trojan L16xxx vs L16RE-B - RV Replacement Battery bank
Do not assume they are "ready to go". Check the SG on every cell and charge if needed, including equalizing if there are any too far off. Write down the numbers before you start using them so you have something to compare to.
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