Choosing a good generator

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  • Ralph Day
    Ralph Day Solar Expert Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭✭
    #272
    Re: Choosing a good generator

    The 3.3kw has a glow plug? My 5kw is just battery start or hand pull (and what a pull!).

    Ralph
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  • inetdog
    inetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    #273
    Re: Choosing a good generator
    mike95490 wrote: »
    I've just ordered a Subaru/Robin/Hatz 3.3KW diesel genset. ... But the parts department wants $90 for a glow plug !!
    The H in the RGD3300H is for Hatz.
    That is one of the reasons that Chris recommends finding an older used RGD3300 unit that actually has the Robin diesel instead of the Hatz. The Hatz is complex, both to meet the current US emissions requirements [Tier III California Compliant = Yes] and because it is German. :-)
    The interval between scheduled services or failures is lower and the parts are far too expensive.
    PS: There are also too many of them. :-)
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #274
    Re: Choosing a good generator
    Ralph Day wrote: »
    The 3.3kw has a glow plug? My 5kw is just battery start or hand pull (and what a pull!).

    Ralph

    The glow plug is "optional" and I know that I will need to start it @ 15F, which means lots of cranking the starter and clouds of black smoke when it finally fires. But $90 for 1 glow plug (part only, no wires or control panel which they wanted to sell also) !!!
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • keyturbocars
    keyturbocars Solar Expert Posts: 375 ✭✭
    #275
    Re: Choosing a good generator
    mike95490 wrote: »
    I've just ordered a Subaru/Robin/Hatz 3.3KW diesel genset.

    http://www.robinamerica.com/pfeatures.aspx?pid=61

    Looks good, Mike. I like Robin/Subaru products.
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  • ldiorio
    ldiorio Solar Expert Posts: 48 ✭✭
    #276
    Re: Choosing a good generator
    westbranch wrote: »
    Never heard of diesel (oil) going bad in storage. Has anyone else?

    FYI: My fuel tank for my backhoe still has 3 year fuel in it and the hoe does not suffer any issues running it.
    I use winter fuel now that it is well below freezing ... down to -8 +- *C I run summer grade fuel.

    i agree --i have a fuel tank 250 gal that i use for diesel fuel for my john deere tractors-one for mowing another for backhoe and bucket around a family compound---so i store diesel anyway

    i have a propane genny with transfer switch with 200 gal of propane but have been thinking of getting 'backup genny' am thinking of buying a PTO generator for my tractor--have never had any problems storing diesel fuel
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  • JR Hill
    JR Hill Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭
    #277
    Re: Choosing a good generator

    It's wise to review forums like this to see what is recommended. Some generators do not work/are not compatible. For example, I have and Briggs and Stratton 8kw (Pro800G) that I intended to use for back charging a 48vdc battery bank through my Outback 3648 inverter. Upon connecting to the genset and as the inverter begins to load the genset, the B&S begins to hunt wildly and blows the voltage regulator so fast it is almost impossible to disconnect in time. No amount of troubleshooting and changing the configuration has yielded a resolve - it just doesn't work and was an expensive mistake. Using my Miller 11kw Bobcat works fine but is an overkill and so does the little 900 watt genset from Harbor Freight that I sometimes use in the evening to top things off through the night. So stay with what others have recommended that works.

    Best, JRH
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  • notes
    notes Solar Expert Posts: 52 ✭✭
    #278
    Re: Choosing a good generator

    I have been searching for a generator and found a site called http://www.genconnexdirect.net/propane-honda-generators.htm
    Does anyone have any experience with this company. I am looking at the EU3000is with optional auto load shedding 120 volt transfer switch. Looking for info if this would be a good choice for a small of grid camp.
    4-Canadian Solar CS330 in series/TraceSW4024/Midnite Classic 250 with Whiz Bang jr/8 L16-370ah 4S2P/ Propane Honda EU2000/Propane Champion3800/electric refrig/Wood heat/Propane tankless water heater/ Grundfos SQE well pump. adding 6 REC Twin Peak 350 watt panels
    Off grid in Upper peninsula Michigan
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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #279
    Re: Choosing a good generator

    I will talk only to the 3000is.... it is a nice quiet inverter gen set that will run everything you can throw at it , up to the 15A available per socket, through the plug... runs multiple loads, compressor(hard starting type) plus table saw and high amp 1/2 inch drill, without missing a beat.

    What do you need the auto transfer switch for?
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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  • notes
    notes Solar Expert Posts: 52 ✭✭
    #280
    Re: Choosing a good generator

    Westbranch, thanks for the high marks on the 3000is. I think I can't go wrong on that. The transfer switch I do not need but the load sharing sounded interesting. Just not sure if it's meant for off grid.
    4-Canadian Solar CS330 in series/TraceSW4024/Midnite Classic 250 with Whiz Bang jr/8 L16-370ah 4S2P/ Propane Honda EU2000/Propane Champion3800/electric refrig/Wood heat/Propane tankless water heater/ Grundfos SQE well pump. adding 6 REC Twin Peak 350 watt panels
    Off grid in Upper peninsula Michigan
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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #281
    Re: Choosing a good generator
    notes wrote: »
    I have been searching for a generator and found a site called http://www.genconnexdirect.net/propane-honda-generators.htm

    That link is to a Honda converted to propane. I believe that the conversion will void the Honda warranty. I believe the three year warranty they offer is their own (not Honda's) warranty.

    If you investigate further and discover that I am wrong about that, please let us all know on this forum.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • notes
    notes Solar Expert Posts: 52 ✭✭
    #282
    Re: Choosing a good generator

    vtMaps, the warranty is handled by genconnex for 2 years. starting in 2014 it will be 3 years.
    4-Canadian Solar CS330 in series/TraceSW4024/Midnite Classic 250 with Whiz Bang jr/8 L16-370ah 4S2P/ Propane Honda EU2000/Propane Champion3800/electric refrig/Wood heat/Propane tankless water heater/ Grundfos SQE well pump. adding 6 REC Twin Peak 350 watt panels
    Off grid in Upper peninsula Michigan
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  • Out There
    Out There Solar Expert Posts: 96 ✭✭✭✭
    #283
    Re: Choosing a good generator

    Slight tangent, here…. anyone have any experience with adjusting an LPG pressure reducer? My 1000 gal LPG tank is now decreased to about 45% full, and with winter's cold upon us, I'm having difficulty getting my generator to start. Once it starts it runs - seemingly fine. While starting, it acts like it's starved for fuel. I have a tachometer/hour meter attached to the spark plug wire. It shows that it's cranking at about 1000 rpm. In order for that to show, it's got to have a spark… so I don't suspect the ignition module. I really believe it is the fuel pressure. Any guidance is appreciated!
    Brian
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  • inetdog
    inetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    #284
    Re: Choosing a good generator

    How long is the line from the tank to the engine?
    The gas pressure may be low because of the flow restrictions in the line coupled with the full open throttle when starting.

    If the line is long, you may need to go to a two stage regulator with a high pressure regulator at the tank and a low pressure regulator near the engine.
    Most common installations put one regulator to "final" pressure of about 10" water column at the tank and then appliances that need a lower pressure than that contain their own pressure reducers.
    If the pressure in the tank itself is less than 10" WC, then you need to heat the tank.
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
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  • Out There
    Out There Solar Expert Posts: 96 ✭✭✭✭
    #285
    Re: Choosing a good generator

    Thanks for the reply!
    The tubing from the tank to the outside of the generator building (flexible copper) is about 12 - 15 feet, with most of that underground. The tank sits slightly (<6") higher than the generator. From the regulator, gas is piped in 3/4" black iron, through a shut-off and a flex coupler to the genset. The black pipe run is probably 6 feet or less, so right around 20 feet total. The problem JUST started.
    This tank also supplies the house (space/water heating and cooking). There is a separate reducer as it enters the house.
    Thanks,
    Brian
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #286
    Re: Choosing a good generator
    Out There wrote: »
    .... The problem JUST started. ......

    Is it now a lot colder ?

    Is the tank less than 1/2 full ?
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • Out There
    Out There Solar Expert Posts: 96 ✭✭✭✭
    #287
    Re: Choosing a good generator

    Yes! The tank is now less than half full and the outside temps have remained in the 30s during the day, but dropping to below freezing almost every night. We just went through a very cold (for around here) period with daytime temps only making it to the low 20s; overnight in the low teens.
    Brian
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  • LucMan
    LucMan Solar Expert Posts: 223 ✭✭✭
    #288
    Re: Choosing a good generator

    Before you do anything you need to take a pressure reading directly at the generator to make sure it is a pressure problem.
    I have seen old copper LP lines partially clogged internally from the by products of LP gas.
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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #289
    Re: Choosing a good generator

    I had "header pipe " made for my old cabin LPG 'distribution plumbing' to the fridge, stove top cooker and heater. The LPG service man that made it up put a drop pipe right below the input point from the tank regulator. the drop section was a foot long with a T 6 inches down for a horizontal header pipe. Reason? to catch the moisture in the pipe and propane that remains in the LPG in the summer.

    We also had to yearly add Methanol to the trucks LPG tank to get the condensed water out of the tank.... not good in the winter.

    If you don't have one in front of the entry hose to the carb you might want to add one...
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #290
    Re: Choosing a good generator
    westbranch wrote: »
    I had "header pipe " made for my old cabin LPG 'distribution plumbing' to the fridge, stove top cooker and heater. The LPG service man that made it up put a drop pipe right below the input point from the tank regulator. the drop section was a foot long with a T 6 inches down for a horizontal header pipe. Reason? to catch the moisture in the pipe and propane that remains in the LPG in the summer.

    This sort of moisture trap should always be done on an LPG system. I have one at the regulator where the tanks are, and also at each "outlet" (connection to appliance). These are the points where the moisture is most likely to drop out. Simple, inexpensive, and highly effective.
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  • wooffi
    wooffi Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭✭✭
    #291
    Re: Choosing a good generator

    In my 20 plus years off the grid I have gone through several generators. The first was the worst Onan Microquiet RV Generator 4000, propane. It was in the shop so much, not even funny any more. I finally just junked it.

    Switched to a Honda Generator EV4010/6010, propane also. Was very happy with it and when the circuit board on the first one went belly up I got a second one. On the last one it was finally impossible to adjust one of the valves anymore and in my attempt to do some work on it, dropped the valve into the block. Scrap it was....

    I sold both to a guy in Florida that rebuilds Honda Generator EV4010/6010. He uses them for parts and told me that the propane gen sets don't last all that long because they run very dry and suffer a lack of engine lubrication.

    Anyway finally now I have a 7 KW Generator from Hardy Diesel, build by Anderson in Omaha. It has a Kubota D1005 - E3BG diesel engine and is a great Generator. Initially I had a bit of wiring problems, and the engine kept overheating. Had to call Anderson a lot of times and after replacing all kinds of parts (fans, thermostat etc) I finally traced it down to just loose wiring (not crimped hard enough), which burned out the relays for the cooling fan. I resolved this for good now.

    I now have over 2000 hours on this engine, the great thing about this generator is, compared to the propane engines which often used close to two gallon an hour, this one uses 0.3 to 0.4 gallon an hour.
    The output is two phases of 120 volt. On phase feeds into my xantrex inverter and the other phase feeds two 40 amp marine chargers. All three of these charge my battery bank when needed.

    The xantrex auto starts the Kubota, it took a little while to get the wiring right for that.

    So, long story short, this one is my champ. I love it. Maintenance is a little tedious as it as a super enclosure and about 30 bolts have to come loose to get the top cover off.

    Thanks

    Wolfgang
    Off the grid since 1990. Done every possible mistake at least twice, too small of a solar array, solar panels in the wrong place, golf cart batteries, used forklift batteries, cheap generators, sad performing Onan propane generator, wind turbine amongst tall trees, you name it we have done it.

    FINALLY in 2016! A 1576 ah bank, my good old reliable 4KW Kubota Diesel, one of the last US build Xantrex W4024 inverter, going since 2000, Outback 80 amp charge controller, updated to 2400 watt solar array in 2019 (only good for 5 hours, don’t want to loose my trees).
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  • Out There
    Out There Solar Expert Posts: 96 ✭✭✭✭
    #292
    Re: Choosing a good generator
    westbranch wrote: »
    The LPG service man that made it up put a drop pipe right below the input point from the tank regulator. the drop section was a foot long with a T 6 inches down for a horizontal header pipe. Reason? to catch the moisture in the pipe and propane that remains in the LPG in the summer.
    I do have traps at each outlet. Including the one feeding the generator. I suspect it may be the primary tubing. Some time ago, when I was looking to buy another house, the LPG company rep told me they no longer use copper (probably for reasons mentioned earlier in this thread). I have to wonder about that.
    westbranch wrote: »
    We also had to yearly add Methanol to the trucks LPG tank to get the condensed water out of the tank.... not good in the winter.
    This is interesting! I don't know if it gets cold enough (on a yearly/average basis) for our local suppliers to offer this. I'll have to check into it.

    Of note: It takes a lot to get the thing to start, but it will run (like I said earlier) "seemingly fine" until I shut it off.
    Thanks for all the replies, guys!
    Brian
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #293
    Re: Choosing a good generator

    Sounds like a regulator adjustment or possible vacuum leak at the engine manifold/propane regulator connection. And you are not getting a rich enough fuel mixture when starting...

    Have you tried staring fluid when first cranking to see if it absence of fuel that may be the problem?

    I have a friend with several old/used propane fired forklifts... And they seem to always have headaches that are easily fixed/not an issue with gasoline engines (bad regulator/vaporizer issues typically--Although coil/voltage issues seem to be common too).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #294
    Re: Choosing a good generator

    One thing I had to do in winter was cycle the ignition switch , depending on how cold it was, from one to several times so that the venturii was filled with LPG gas. started much easier that way.
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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  • Out There
    Out There Solar Expert Posts: 96 ✭✭✭✭
    #295
    Re: Choosing a good generator
    BB. wrote: »
    Have you tried staring fluid when first cranking to see if it absence of fuel that may be the problem?

    -Bill
    I've not tried starting fluid, but the thought had occurred to me. It's on my list to purchase. Thanks.
    Brian
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  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    #296
    Re: Choosing a good generator

    If you want good Generac-specific advice I recommend the Ziller Electric forum (no competition with Wind Sun, they only do generators).
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #297
    Re: Choosing a good generator

    No problem with links to good sources of information.

    I think this is the forum:

    http://www.zillerelectric.com/forums/

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Out There
    Out There Solar Expert Posts: 96 ✭✭✭✭
    #298
    Re: Choosing a good generator

    Thanks, guys! I'm awaiting a moderator to clear me for posting on the Ziller forum. In the meantime, I found a thread on 8kw units (like mine) failing to start. The difference (which may be inconsequential) is the unit is run on natural gas vs. propane. There appears to be some good info on there. Tomorrow I'll have my LPG tank topped off and we'll see if that helps. I also got myself a can of starting fluid… which some of the Ziller posters used/recommended.
    I'm glad I have batteries, but this time of year, I have to rely on the generator more than the PV :cry:
    -Brian

    UPDATE: I have several excellent suggestions from the Ziller group. There was a thread all about an 8kw unit that failed to start and (as BB, I think, suggested) there's apparently a common problem with a vacuum hose that comes loose and fails to initiate the higher fuel needs for starting. I'll be looking into that tonight. Thanks for the suggestion!
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #299
    Re: Choosing a good generator

    Be very careful with the starting fluid, it's easy to get enough of a buildup to blow a piston when it does fire.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

    · Share on Twitter
  • Out There
    Out There Solar Expert Posts: 96 ✭✭✭✭
    #300
    Re: Choosing a good generator
    mike95490 wrote: »
    Be very careful with the starting fluid, it's easy to get enough of a buildup to blow a piston when it does fire.
    …or to start a fire! Thanks. It's always good to be reminded of these things.
    -Brian
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  • Tobit
    Tobit Solar Expert Posts: 41 ✭
    #301
    Re: Choosing a good generator

    Anyone have experience with the Hyundai HY2000si? Are they on par with the crappy Generac inverter model?
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