New to me 1040 AH stationary batteries

H2SO4_guy
H2SO4_guy Solar Expert Posts: 213 ✭✭✭
in Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems #1
Panasonic MSE-1040AT 2 volt cells are $65 each, and I can trade in a bunch of my older batteries on these with the difference being $.14 per pound. The cells all read 2.15 or 2.16 volts so they are charged, and just pulled out of service I believe from a telco.

The goal is to get at least one string of 48 volts and have spare cells to replace the ones that will go bad in the future. At 1040 AH at the 8 hour rate, I shouldn’t have to cycle these too deeply. This should run the AC overnight!

There are many pallets of these and it seems such a shame to not get some more use out of them before recycling.
12K asst panels charging through Midnite Classic 150's, powering Exeltechs and Outback VFX-3648 inverter at 12 and 48 volts.  2080 AH @ 48 VDC of Panasonic Stationary batteries (2 strings of 1040 AH each) purchased for slightly over scrap, installed August 2013.  Outback PSX-240X for 220 volt duties.  No genny usage since 2014. 
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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: New to me 1040 AH stationary batteries

    that is the 8 hr rate so you will get more at the 20 hr rate. probably in the 1100Ah range if they are similar to mine, I gained about 100 Ah between 8 and 20 hrs. can't find a large table , so you might have to go to their web site and request it. here is a link https://panasonic.ca/english/batteries/industrialbatteries/mse1040_specs.asp
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
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    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
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    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #3
    Re: New to me 1040 AH stationary batteries

    Interesting looking cells...

    https://panasonic.ca/english/batteries/industrialbatteries/mse_1040.asp

    Not sure why they give such a low charging voltage (2.25 volts per cell--13.5 volts @ 12 volt battery bank)... Maybe that is the float voltage:



    MSE-1040AT VRLA Battery Specifications
    home.jpg




    Specifications:


    Nominal Voltage

    2 Vpc



    Rated Capacity
    (8 hr rate @ 1.75Vpc)

    1040 Ahr



    Dimensions

    Height

    580 mm (22.84 in)



    Width

    245 mm (9.65 in)



    Length

    183 mm (7.19 in)



    Weight

    66 Kg (146 lbs)



    Material

    Polypropylene

    UL 94 V-0 > 28% LOI


    Characteristics:


    Capacity
    25ºC (77ºF ) 1.75V

    8 hour

    1040 A



    6 hour

    978 A



    2 hour

    698 A



    1 hour

    528 A



    Self-Discharge
    25ºC (77ºF)

    3 months

    91%



    6 months

    82%



    12 months

    64%



    18 months

    50%



    Internal Impedance
    Full charge @ 25ºC (77ºF)

    0.33 milliohms



    Max. Discharge
    (1minute duration)

    2CA

    2080 A



    Termination Type:

    6 mm INSERT



    Torque

    41 in/lb



    Charge Voltage @ 25ºC (77ºF)

    2.23~2.25 Vpc



    Max Charge Current
    (0.3C-0.4C Recommended)

    416 A








    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • mtdoc
    mtdoc Solar Expert Posts: 600 ✭✭
    #4
    Re: New to me 1040 AH stationary batteries

    "Stationary" - as opposed to moving...:p

    Seriously though - what do those guys weigh - 150lbs? Stationary indeed.(oh - I see Bill posted the specs, 146 lbs - i was close)

    Voltage is somewhat helpful but load testing them would be the only way to really know their condition.
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  • H2SO4_guy
    H2SO4_guy Solar Expert Posts: 213 ✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: New to me 1040 AH stationary batteries

    I can't load test, but they all read between 2.15 and 2.17 volts. I committed to 54 cells, so there will be 2 48 volt strings and 1 12 volt string to keep on float to use as spare cells for when any die and need replacement. On other AGM batteries I have been using from the Telco I charge at 2.36 vpc, which is 14.2 per 12 volts. I just turned in a 115 AH 48 vdc pack that I could still get about 1 kwh usable and they were from 2000. Just wanted the weight to use for trade in to lessen the cash outlay somewhat.

    Doing the math if I don't count the core charge, I am into these for about $1100 for 112 kwh of power. I can't buy 2 strings of golf cart batteries for that little and I hope to have power for many years, but I'll keep everyone posted. Lead tends to keep up with inflation, so I sure don't mind having 10,000 pounds of batteries laying around either.
    12K asst panels charging through Midnite Classic 150's, powering Exeltechs and Outback VFX-3648 inverter at 12 and 48 volts.  2080 AH @ 48 VDC of Panasonic Stationary batteries (2 strings of 1040 AH each) purchased for slightly over scrap, installed August 2013.  Outback PSX-240X for 220 volt duties.  No genny usage since 2014. 
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  • gww1
    gww1 Solar Expert Posts: 963 ✭✭
    #6
    Re: New to me 1040 AH stationary batteries

    Discounting the core charge, What was the core charge? To get out of the core charge did you need like size batteries?
    Thanks
    gww

    Ps Did you go through the pallets and pick and choose the batteries you wanted?
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  • H2SO4_guy
    H2SO4_guy Solar Expert Posts: 213 ✭✭✭
    #7
    Re: New to me 1040 AH stationary batteries

    Well, I used the phrase 'Core charge', but it is just really weight. It worked out to about 7,893 pounds of batteries that I paid for. There were tons (literally) of batteries traded in and I paid the difference. If I scrapped them tomorrow, the cost difference would be about $1100. So in reality, if the price of lead does not go down, I'm into 54 of the 1040 AH 2 volt cells for about $1100. I can't buy 2 48 volt strings of anyone's golf cart batteries for that kind of money. I thought it was a great deal, but I'll let you know. It is an $1100 gamble, but that is kind of the way life is. I have spares of the same type / brand / age to plug in if need be, so I hope to keep them going for awhile. As Vic says, YMMV!!!

    I did go through the pallets, but ALL of them were within .02 volts. They are all likely in very good condition. It is sad to see the rest of them go to the smelter. :(
    12K asst panels charging through Midnite Classic 150's, powering Exeltechs and Outback VFX-3648 inverter at 12 and 48 volts.  2080 AH @ 48 VDC of Panasonic Stationary batteries (2 strings of 1040 AH each) purchased for slightly over scrap, installed August 2013.  Outback PSX-240X for 220 volt duties.  No genny usage since 2014. 
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  • gww1
    gww1 Solar Expert Posts: 963 ✭✭
    #8
    Re: New to me 1040 AH stationary batteries

    What town were they located in? 54 batteries at $65 ea no core charge if bought outright ($3500)? Maby I should consider 30 of them.
    gww
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  • Gino
    Gino Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭
    #9
    Re: New to me 1040 AH stationary batteries

    Hey all did anyone come to any conclusions on ideal charging voltage for these?

    I am running 2 series of 6 at 12V on my system.
    they seem to work great, I currently have my MPPT controller set for 14.5V absorption charge

    I am curious though if these batteries should have an equalization charge or not? also if maybe my absorption charge is too high..

    Thanks!
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  • H2SO4_guy
    H2SO4_guy Solar Expert Posts: 213 ✭✭✭
    #10
    Re: New to me 1040 AH stationary batteries

    Do NOT equalize. I can get you the charging parameters this weekend that I use if you like.
    12K asst panels charging through Midnite Classic 150's, powering Exeltechs and Outback VFX-3648 inverter at 12 and 48 volts.  2080 AH @ 48 VDC of Panasonic Stationary batteries (2 strings of 1040 AH each) purchased for slightly over scrap, installed August 2013.  Outback PSX-240X for 220 volt duties.  No genny usage since 2014. 
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  • Gino
    Gino Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭
    #11
    Re: New to me 1040 AH stationary batteries
    H2SO4_guy wrote: »
    Do NOT equalize. I can get you the charging parameters this weekend that I use if you like.

    Great thanks, I'll turn of equalization tomorrow then..
    Yeah those specs would be very helpful
    I'm using an Morningstar MPPT 60Amp
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  • H2SO4_guy
    H2SO4_guy Solar Expert Posts: 213 ✭✭✭
    #12
    Re: New to me 1040 AH stationary batteries

    Which batteries do you have?

    I have used these charging numbers for all of the lead-calcium AGM batteries that I have ever had. I got rid of a set that were still working that were 13 years old because I needed the trade-in weight for the current ones. They weighed 624 pounds for 115 AH @ 48 VDC. I did hate to get rid of them, but it would have required an additional charge controller and panels switched to them occasionally to charge them. Was running short on cash at the time and didn't want to make the additional investment in equipment at the time and I was getting tons (literally hehe) of new (Used) batteries. Now I even heat with those batteries sometimes! I'll bet not too many heat their living quarters with a $1300 battery pack.

    I'll get back by next week with the charging specs I use. Keep in mind that YMMV (As Vic says).

    Skip
    12K asst panels charging through Midnite Classic 150's, powering Exeltechs and Outback VFX-3648 inverter at 12 and 48 volts.  2080 AH @ 48 VDC of Panasonic Stationary batteries (2 strings of 1040 AH each) purchased for slightly over scrap, installed August 2013.  Outback PSX-240X for 220 volt duties.  No genny usage since 2014. 
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  • Gino
    Gino Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭
    #13
    Re: New to me 1040 AH stationary batteries

    I've got MSE 1040Ah in 2x series of 6 for 12V system..
    Do you think 14.5 is an OK charging voltage?
    I turned off equalization..
    I have an Morningstar MPPT-60 and PWM T-60
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  • H2SO4_guy
    H2SO4_guy Solar Expert Posts: 213 ✭✭✭
    #14
    Re: New to me 1040 AH stationary batteries

    I checked my numbers to be exact and I use 14.2 absorb (For 12 volts) for charging, 13.55 float, and 14.2 for EQ. That way if the batts are in float and I'm using quite a bit, I can set an EQ cycle and it is like some extra absorb time. It works for me and that is what I have done with several different AGM batteries, however, I am using used Lead-calcium batteries. I have had very good luck with them over the years. Right now my production sucks! Only 2.1 kwh total in 2 days! Not so much sun here, just cloudy and barely making any power. Conserve, conserve, conserve!
    12K asst panels charging through Midnite Classic 150's, powering Exeltechs and Outback VFX-3648 inverter at 12 and 48 volts.  2080 AH @ 48 VDC of Panasonic Stationary batteries (2 strings of 1040 AH each) purchased for slightly over scrap, installed August 2013.  Outback PSX-240X for 220 volt duties.  No genny usage since 2014. 
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