Need 12V fridge with freezer 16 cf

momofgcmmomofgcm Solar Expert Posts: 35
I see WS doesn't sell Sun Frost refrigerators.

I need a 12V fridge/freezer at least 16CF. I don't know of any other company that sells something like that here in the states other than sun frost.

I have heard several negatives about sun frost but I feel like I don't have a choice.

What should I buy??

I've also considered getting a regular AC fridge and putting it on the inverter instead of powering off the 12V DC. I would disconnect the auto defrost somehow to save energy.

Anyone have experience in this issue??

Kim

Comments

  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,377 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Need 12V fridge with freezer 16 cf

    My opinion:
    Get a Energy Star freezer. Skip sunfrost. Get a pure sine inverter, like the Morningstar SureSine 300w cont, 600W 10 min. That is likely going to start the freezer and keep it running. Won't draw much more than sunfrost would, and much larger capacity. And standard parts and such that go with mass production.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,511 admin
    Re: Need 12V fridge with freezer 16 cf

    I am not sure that a SureSine 300 watt / 600 watt surge TSW inverter could start the compressor and the defrost heaters...

    By they way, my guess is that you will have two choices here.
    1. Choose an energy Star manual defrost freezer
    2. Choose an Energy Star automatic defrost freezer
    I believe that you will not be able to disconnect the auto defrost heaters as the evaporator coils will ice up within a few days and block all circulating air flow--resulting in no cooling by the refrigerant.

    Somebody here (Niel?) (nope, not niel) tried that once with a auto-defrost refrigerator and within a day the evaporator was iced up.

    You may need a 1,000-1,200 watt minimum inverter to properly start a fridge/freezer...

    I am not sure--so if somebody else has some experience--please jump in.

    By the way, based on my latest experience, avoid Frigidaire (we just had one fail today in less than 4 years--guy at store shopping for replacement had his fail in 2 years).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • WindsunWindsun Solar Expert Posts: 1,164 ✭✭
    Re: Need 12V fridge with freezer 16 cf

    For many years we installed hundreds of systems on the Navajo and Hopi reservations, and many required a refrigerator.

    Several years ago we gave up on Sunfrost for several reasons, mainly cost, attitude, and very long lead times. Even in 2005 it was cheaper to add an extra 300 watts of panel and use a standard off-the-shelf Energy Star refrigerator or freezer. And since then panel prices have dropped by 40% or more.

    A lot of the smaller systems ran off of an Exeltech XP1100, which ran the Refrigerator a few lights, and a couple of other small appliances. If doing the same systems today we would probably use a larger inverter, but that depends on budget.
  • EarthandsolEarthandsol Registered Users Posts: 12
    Re: Need 12V fridge with freezer 16 cf

    I have used the Exeltech inverters for my home and several other small off-grid systems. I have run a Kenmore 18 cu. ft energy Star Fridge from a 1100 watt Exeltech for 8 years and have occasionally operated it from a 600 watt Exeltech inverter for several weeks . This was with a sizable battery bank ( [email protected]) which kept the input voltage from dropping. I did once as an experiment try run the fridge( fridge only) from a Exeltech 250 watt inverter and it shut off immediately. My fridge draws approx. 5.2 amps @ 25volts=130 watts running with a momentary surge as shown on my Trimetric meter of [email protected]= 380 watts. I expect the surge is even higher briefly. I might run with the 600 watt inverter but I would severely limit any other loads.
    Chris
  • mikeomikeo Solar Expert Posts: 386 ✭✭✭
    Re: Need 12V fridge with freezer 16 cf
    What should I buy??

    Specs wise this is about the lowest rated power for an 18 CF fridge/freezer combo that I have found. Should be available or can be ordered from the big box stores link Home Depot and Lowes.
    http://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/W9RXXMFWQ.html

    Draw should be less than 950 watts hours a day.
  • solarvicsolarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Need 12V fridge with freezer 16 cf
    mikeo wrote: »
    Specs wise this is about the lowest rated power for an 18 CF fridge/freezer combo that I have found. Should be available or can be ordered from the big box stores link Home Depot and Lowes.
    http://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/W9RXXMFWQ.html

    Draw should be less than 950 watts hours a day.
    Looks identical to my sears model that has an icemaker with cold water inside door. Uses 90 watts when running. Seara is made by kenmore
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Need 12V fridge with freezer 16 cf

    I run a standard, 16 CuFt Whirlpool EnergyStar 'frige off solar. I had it on a MSW inverter to start with; made a lot of noise when running and used too much power. True Sine Wave solved both problems.
    Be advised that refrigerators do ot use one set amount of energy; it will vary according to how much work the compressor has to do. Mine will burn up 500 Watts during the auto-defrost, and then the compressor will draw 240 Watts and work its way down to 90 Watts. Ordinarily the cycling runs around 150 Watts average. No it is not the best possible unit for the application, but it was a good $ value and it does work with all the 'comforts' of on-grid power. If you note my sig you'll see I don't have a very big system. Over-all the 'frige is responsible for approximately 1.2 kW/hrs consumption per day. Higher in warm weather, lower in cold.
  • momofgcmmomofgcm Solar Expert Posts: 35
    Re: Need 12V fridge with freezer 16 cf

    Great info!!

    I am guessing we will go with the whirlpool w9rxxmfwq. It energy star rating is 343. I am going to suggest we add 3-4 inches of polyurathane foam around three sides of the fridge to help with insulation. Right now the ambient temps in Guinea are at 99F and it's getting hotter. There is no such thing as AC there.

    Does the energy star rating convert to 940Wh/day?

    What does the energy star rating mean in amps/day?? Do they assume it runs 24 hours and is on 120V AC?

    The fridge would be powered using a 1750 Go Power MSW inverter (it's currently installed). Now I need to figure out if that is big enough for the surge. Anyone have experience with the surge from a 15A AC fridge compressor?

    How much energy would you save using a true sine wave inverter? Does using a MSW inverter shorten the life of the compressor? How noisy is it??

    Kim
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,142 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Need 12V fridge with freezer 16 cf

    Hi Kim, as a guide do a search here for TSW and fridges, there have been several threads on that topic. I will have a look at our (5 yr old) Maytag rating. I am in the process of 'kill-a -watting 'all our appliances so will just move it to the top of the list for real world numbers. I will post the results here as a guide in a say or so.

    Sorry I can't help on converting the rating to consumption, but be aware that the MSW is 'normally' not good for most motors and uses more energy than a TSW vs MSW , the excess energy is mostly lost as heat.

    Yes the fridge is on AC.


    Eric
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,511 admin
    Re: Need 12V fridge with freezer 16 cf

    Before you apply the foam--make sure you understand where the Condenser (heat exchanger) is...

    On refrigerators, it is typically underneath or on the rear--just don't cover with foam.

    Freezers can have the heat exchanger under the surface of outside of the freezer--insulating those sides would trap heat and fail.

    I am not a big fan of adding extra foam... I lived in a humid environment and the metal/foam meeting point would condense quite a bit of water--causing corrosion problems.

    Others here have done it with no problem (that I have heard)--so take your choice.

    From what I have seen the US Energy Star for Fridges is 90F for the rating (hotter weather causes more power use):
    • 343 kWHrs per year / 365 days = 0.940 kWhrs per day
    The rating assumes 24 hours per day, possibly some door opening, and whatever the rated voltage is...

    All About Inverters
    Choosing an inverter for water pumping

    From the second link:
    The modified sine wave has detrimental effects on many electrical loads. It reduces the energy efficiency of motors and transformers by 10 to 20 percent. The wasted energy causes abnormal heat which reduces the reliability and longevity of motors and transformers and other devices, including some appliances and computers. The choppy waveform confuses some digital timing devices.

    For a regular old energy star refrigerator (self defrosting)--probably a minimum of 1,200 watts for the inverter.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,311 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Need 12V fridge with freezer 16 cf

    the energy star just means it is in the more efficient category here as determined by the us government. i am not sure what the crossover point is for qualification, but i believe they have varying standards when side by side refrig/freezers are addressed and i do not advise anyone for one of them. for better information on just what that refrig will do i suggest emailing the manufacturer and explain where you are and the high temperatures you experience and that you would like real world figures on what you can expect to draw from it power-wise along with any advice they may have on your proposing to add more insulation,
    on the inverter subject, you will find that if the refrig operates with the msw inverter that it will operate hotter from the harmonics dissipating heat in the compressor and fans along with more power being used. (up to 28% more power is used) to add to that, if it should fail due to the modsine inverter use i don't believe they would cover that in a warranty. (i wouldn't voluntarily tell them that you use that, but they may ask knowing where you are from) stay with a sine wave inverter with at least 1000w or better continuous power rating.
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,377 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Need 12V fridge with freezer 16 cf
    momofgcm wrote: »
    How much energy would you save using a true sine wave inverter?
    Does using a MSW inverter shorten the life of the compressor?
    How noisy is it??

    True Sine (pure sine), I think saves about 20% from the mod sine, which makes the motors draw 20% more power from the battery

    The extra power drawn, DOES shorten the motor life, by overheat. Some motors die in a few days, some take years.

    MSW inverters generally do induce a bit more noise into the motors they drive.

    I would strongly suggest pure sine wave for a new fridge, as it likely has electronic controls that may not work well on MSW. And the motor could fail on you.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Need 12V fridge with freezer 16 cf

    Now all the fridge and freezer have DC one 12V/24 V no need inverter
    you can connect the freezer with the solar system directly
    if you use the AC compressor freezer with the inverter .the compressor will broken easily
    we are the manufacturer of all kinds of DC fridge&freezers
  • momofgcmmomofgcm Solar Expert Posts: 35
    Re: Need 12V fridge with freezer 16 cf

    What is your website? What is the company name? Can it be purchased here in the states?
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,511 admin
    Re: Need 12V fridge with freezer 16 cf

    You can Check Tony's information under is USER ID... I did not see a website--but he has his email and other messaging.

    Tony, are your refrigerators/freezers equipped with more/better insulation (or some sort of thermal storage/plate)? It seems that with only 4-8 hours of sun that you would have quite a bit of temperature swing between night and morning.

    I know that freezers are especially prone to "freezer burn" (drying out the surface of frozen food" with wide temperature swings... It is better to just keep the freezer at 0F/-18F or below... If you even 5C above that level--the food quality falls quite rapidly over time.

    At least in the US, DC powered refrigerators have always cost quite a bit more than the AC versions. Usually it was less expensive to add a battery capacit and extra solar panel than to go with DC refrigeration.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • dagr51dagr51 Solar Expert Posts: 72 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Need 12V fridge with freezer 16 cf

    Says "Made in the U.S.A."?
  • momofgcmmomofgcm Solar Expert Posts: 35
    Re: Need 12V fridge with freezer 16 cf

    I looked at the website and they are chest fridges and freezers. Like a sundanzer.
  • dagr51dagr51 Solar Expert Posts: 72 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Need 12V fridge with freezer 16 cf

    Looks like Tony deleted his post about shipping these freezers from China after I noted they said they were made in the U.S.A. Wonder why?
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,511 admin
    Re: Need 12V fridge with freezer 16 cf

    No, it was deleted because it was a direct link to a competitor's site.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • ray33324ray33324 Registered Users Posts: 2
    Re: Need 12V fridge with freezer 16 cf
    mikeo wrote: »
    Specs wise this is about the lowest rated power for an 18 CF fridge/freezer combo that I have found. Should be available or can be ordered from the big box stores link Home Depot and Lowes.
    http://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/W9RXXMFWQ.html

    Draw should be less than 950 watts hours a day.

    I'm new to the forum... reading this post get confuse and want to see what I have wrong in my understanding...I did check the site and this refrigerator consume 15 amps below the specifications from the web site:


    Technical Details
    Energy Star Rated : Yes
    CEE Rating : Tier III
    Star-K Certified : No
    ADA Compliant : Yes
    Approved for Commercial Use : No
    Approved for Outdoor Use : No
    Amps : 15
    Voltage : 120 Volts

    120 x 15 = 1800 watts PER HOUR..and a wooping 150 amps per hour from the inverter source at 12 volts.... EVIDENTLY I HAVE SOMETHING WRONG ...need to learn can you please explain how you get 950 whatts hours a day?

    I'm putting together a houseboat and have a 4 amps refrigerator in MY SEARCH on the web ... and still worrie about my consume as refrigerators run 24 x7 PLUS THE SURGE to start..

    4 x 120 = 480 watts in hour / 48v =10 amp an hour wich I will love to reduce....

    My system is 16 Troyans t105 set up as 48 volts in 2 banks to try to reduce the draws from the 12 volts sytems... as in 48 you reduce the consume a little more than in 1/2 but still this refrigerator W9RXXMFWQ will get 75 AMPS!!!! ....PLEASE HELP ME HERE!! Before I make a mistake!!
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Need 12V fridge with freezer 16 cf

    Welcome to the forum.

    It's a terminology thing.

    15 Amps would be the peak current draw. 120 VAC is the Voltage standard. This does not mean the 'frige draws (15 * 120) 1800 Watts, and especially not continuously. In fact most standard refrigerators draw <200 Watts when running. What's more, refrigerators do not run continuously but cycle on and off. As such they end up drawing about 1200 Watt hours per day.

    Here's a thread that shows some real tests on various refrigerators from members:
    http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?12272-Just-how-bad-a-small-frige-is

    This is why it is better to measure an appliance's consumption rather than calculate it base on manufacturer's information.
  • jcheiljcheil Solar Expert Posts: 722 ✭✭✭
    Re: Need 12V fridge with freezer 16 cf

    And GENERALLY speaking, if you look at the yellow energy star tag that comes with the fridge it will show the average energy consumption per year. I have found them to be pretty close to the actual usage for us here in FL. The full size 18.9cf one I bought 4 years ago showed 360kwh per year (just under 1kwh per day) and my average is about 1.2kwh per day - being that mine is in an 80+ degree building with a high humidity.
    Off-Grid in Central Florida since 2005, Full-Time since June 2014 | 12 X Sovello 205w panels, 9 X ToPoint 220w panels, 36x ToPoint 225w panels (12,525 watts total) | Custom built single-axis ground mounts | Complete FP2 Outback System: 3 x FM80, 2 x VFX3648, X240 Transformer, FLEXnet-DC, Mate-3, Hub-10, FW500 AC/DC | 24 x Trojan L16RE-B Batteries 1110ah @ 48v | Honda EU7000is Generator and a pile of "other" Generators | Home-Made PVC solar hot water collector | Custom data logging software http://www.somewhatcrookedcamp.com/monitormate.html
  • ray33324ray33324 Registered Users Posts: 2
    Re: Need 12V fridge with freezer 16 cf
    Welcome to the forum.

    Thank You.

    Like I mentioned I'm at 48 volts base system taking advantages of all the chargers, batteries and things from the golf cart industry cutting 2 1/2 times convertion powers from the 12 volts systems ...also 48v to 230V inverters cutting 1/2 from 120v ...however refrigerators are sucking all day long... I'm in Florida the only possible way for me so far without getting deeper with expenses is connecting 2 Dometic 28 series ( the longest ones ) with a very low consuming relay getting the heating elements of both refrigerators in series to be operating on 230v... be controlled by one of the refrigerators electronics they both work at same tempand like that for last 6 years fine... that way I operate in off coling space of 2 refrigerators with only one heating element consuming only 1/2 at 230V ...for air conditioner a 230v 9000 btu's A/c for the cabine 5 or 6 hours in the day time... more than in off for day time..... at night if I reallyever need it ...I have an old Dometic refrigerator that I use as a dumbload for the turbine using the freezer top plate to keep low freeze 60 gallons of antifreeze in 2 old freezer chest well insulated under the deck...when I need A/c at night I circulate antifreeze all night with an external thermostat in the cabine thru an high density coil with 2 computers fan blowing from the coil just for the room ... keeping the room VERY confortable all night, this system hardly work as in the water is always fresh and betwen the dripping of the A/C circulating thru a coil inside the atifreeze before is expell out and the system cooling mostly with the turbines dumb load when the system is full charge ( Dometic refrigerators work with heater no compresors) the antifreeze is always at low temp using almost no power hardly ever and is use ONLY in a very extreme hot nights very rare in the water ....that way my 2 1500w turbines charge the banks all night if need it with no draw from any device, my inside and outside lights are all LED even the navigation markers are LED'S ....to cook we do with a couple of 2 amp rice cookers..... only some times we use the BBQ grill or gas stove if we want bigger meal... but to roast any meat, cook spaguetti or many other 20 some dishes... the rice coockers are GREAT way without draw your hard store power, I been living with my wife and dog in an old houseboat in the middle of the St Johns River on and off for years, as we also have a house there in a canal with my dock... but never dock the houseboat there we rahter live in the middleof the river.... recently start remodeling a wide body 60 foot model Houseboat and I'm open to a better ways to improve and use less power, I'm exploring the possibility of using Lithium batteries but so far they are really expensive for the same size banks respecting to the regular golf cart batt's ....here is a photo of my120 LED hand made cabine light on a plastic gutter I made in the 90's when was no comercial led lights abundant in the market... with that light I had save many hours of generated power in the boat
    ......Attachment not found.
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