May have to shut off my MX-60 on sunny winter days

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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #32
    Re: May have to shut off my MX-60 on sunny winter days
    NorthGuy wrote: »
    They cought me once, but since then I never use them again. I wonder if $50 that they stole from me was worth losing me for life - thousands of dollars I could've paid them for shipping.

    If they only stole $50 from you NorthGuy, consider yourself lucky: the cross-border UPS scammers can run the charges as "your designated importer" way, way up. And since the gov't. is collecting 5% on the top they have no incentive to do anything about the fee gouging.
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #33
    Re: May have to shut off my MX-60 on sunny winter days

    Well it's looking like the great idea of switching diodes in and out as needed, in series with the Morningstar TS-300 inverters is out. This morning the temp was minus 8C, and during a sweep the MX-60 drove the battery voltage so high it even kicked out the Xantrex 1800/12 inverter, and it's good to 16.5 volts. If it was only kicking out the little inverters, that I could fix, but not an 1800/3000 watt surge inverter. Oh well, it is what it is. The MX rarely caused a problem when I only had a 5% charge rate, but now with 10%, it's a regular occurrence that will only get worse as the colder weather sets in. :cry:
    Wish I could just walk down the street, pick up and feel a selection of inverters. And prices? Yes, along with import duties, one of the disadvantages of living in Canada. Remember "free trade"? Yeah. Right. :(
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  • NorthGuy
    NorthGuy Solar Expert Posts: 1,913 ✭✭
    #34
    Re: May have to shut off my MX-60 on sunny winter days
    waynefromnscanada wrote: »
    If it was only kicking out the little inverters, that I could fix, but not an 1800/3000 watt surge inverter.

    Yes. A diode on 3000W inverter can easily eat up 200W or so. Not to mention that such diodes may cost more than the whole new charge controller.

    However, there was a suggestion to disable sweeps in one of the posts. This might be a good solution.
    waynefromnscanada wrote: »
    Wish I could just walk down the street, pick up and feel a selection of inverters. And prices? Yes, along with import duties, one of the disadvantages of living in Canada. Remember "free trade"? Yeah. Right. :(

    There are advantages too :D
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #35
    Re: May have to shut off my MX-60 on sunny winter days
    NorthGuy wrote: »
    Yes. A diode on 3000W inverter can easily eat up 200W or so. Not to mention that such diodes may cost more than the whole new charge controller.

    However, there was a suggestion to disable sweeps in one of the posts. This might be a good solution.



    There are advantages too :D
    Thanks for your thoughts NorthGuy, appreciate!
    I was able to disable the restarts, that fixed some problems, but that sequence was in the manual. Haven't seen anything about locking sweeps - - if anyone knows how, or if it can be done with the mX-60, I'd love to learn.
    And re living in Canada - - - I'm out in the sticks and wouldn't trade it for anything. The advantages far, far outweigh the disadvantages. All is peaceful, quiet and I have no need to even lock my doors. NOT kidding! It can be so easy to take such things for granted.
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #36
    Re: May have to shut off my MX-60 on sunny winter days

    Here in Canada, and therefore without import duties etc, I can get a fair deal on a Midnight Classic 200. Would prefer the 150, but none in stock.
    Anyone with experience on the Midnight? Your opinion? I can get a better deal on a slightly used FM80, but believe I'd always be kicking my butt for not going with the Midnight, which has extra features and is I believe a better controller than what appears to be a reworked MX-60.
    Opinions of those with experience with, or personal knowledge of these controllers? Will be replacing a MX-60.
    Thanks a lot folks.
    Wayne
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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #37
    Re: May have to shut off my MX-60 on sunny winter days
    waynefromnscanada wrote: »
    I can get a fair deal on a Midnight Classic 200. Would prefer the 150, but none in stock.

    Hi Wayne,
    Because you have a 12 volt system, you will be pushing the amps limit of almost any charge controller.
    My point: hold out for the classic 150. It can handle more amps than the classic 200.

    Also, make sure your panels are configured to have the lowest Vmp possible.... the classic runs hot at full power and runs hotter still if you start with a very high Vmp. On a 12 volt system at full power you should try to have your Vmp in the 30's (single GT panel or two 12 volt panels in series).

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #38
    Re: May have to shut off my MX-60 on sunny winter days

    Thanks vtMaps, that's what I had been kind of thinking. PV is GT type with MPV of roughly 36, so that looks good. Didn't realize about the hot running at full power.
    Will contact buddy re wait time for the 150, which is the one I wanted in the first place. Strikes me the FM is more or less revamped old design, missing several excellent features of the Midnight. I would use the extra AUX outputs.
    Thanks again for your thoughts.
    Wayne - - - - - -
    EDIT: Just got message back. 2 wk wait for the 150. Sounds good to me, I can wait and shut off the poor old MX on sunny days in the meantime.
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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #39
    Re: May have to shut off my MX-60 on sunny winter days

    Wayne there is also the WhizBang Jr , a Shunt add on, that is just out that adds the opportunity to stop a charge when the battery hs reached the desired End Amps target. Monitors Amps in and out of your battery.

    read here: http://midniteforum.com/index.php?board=48.0
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #40
    Re: May have to shut off my MX-60 on sunny winter days

    Update for those who may be interested.
    I did end up shutting down the MX-60 permanently as it was just causing too many problems with voltage spikes during sweeps. What a difference! Not once since shutting it down and letting the Morningstar handle things, have any of the inverters kicked out on over-voltage! Now I realize the MX has been responsible for these shut downs for years, but I had no idea what was the cause. Couldn't catch it in the act, but now I know! WOW!
    Couple of days ago I received the new MidNight Classic 150. Been just too cold to install it out in the solar shed yet, but have had a chance to have a serious look inside it and compare with the guts of the MX. Gotta say, I'm EXCEEDINGLY impressed with what I'm seeing! I know this is a brand new design compared to the poor old MX, but still, the difference is nothing short of remarkable in so very many ways! From what I see so far, I'm sure glad I went with the Classic! Awesome heat sink arrangement even takes advantage of the thick aluminum cabinet as a heat sink (something the MX did not) and the little fans, rated 0.1 amps each @ 12 volts are EXTREMELY easy to get at and change if necessary. The control board etc are VERY easy to change, if necessary. Just so impressed with it!
    One difference that surprises me though, is that the main PV and Battery cable connector lugs are considerably smaller on the Classic. The MX would take #4 cable, while the new much more powerful Classic 150 only takes up to #6 wire. Interesting. Gotta downsize some of my cables, or splice on some smaller wire ends. Seriously, after thoroughly inspecting the new Classic, the old MX looks like a Second World War tank that was hurriedly thrown together, when compared with the beautifully thought out and designed MidNight Classic 150.
    Now we wait for a less frigid day to do the installation and see how it works. OH, and it comes with an excellent DVD that shows many features etc.
    All the best everyone.
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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #41
    Re: May have to shut off my MX-60 on sunny winter days
    waynefromnscanada wrote: »
    The MX would take #4 cable, while the new much more powerful Classic 150 only takes up to #6 wire. Interesting. Gotta downsize some of my cables, or splice on some smaller wire ends.

    There have been discussions about this here and at Midnite. The Classic will take #4. There were some problems in earlier Classics:

    http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?16508 (don't skip post #17)

    http://midnitesolar.com/smf_forum/index.php?topic=581.0

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #42
    Re: May have to shut off my MX-60 on sunny winter days
    vtmaps wrote: »
    There have been discussions about this here and at Midnite. The Classic will take #4. There were some problems in earlier Classics:

    http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?16508 (don't skip post #17)

    http://midnitesolar.com/smf_forum/index.php?topic=581.0

    --vtMaps

    Thanks very much vtMaps for your info and links!
    So I learned #4, at least some of it will indeed fit if we're very careful, but with no space to spare. I got my hands on some #4 and indeed I can make it fit! Wooo Hooo!
    Sure had me fooled for a while though.
    Now I just have to wait for some warmer weather so I can get to use ungloved fingers in tight places. Looks like Monday will be our traditional "January Thaw", +10 and heavy rain before the temps plunge again, leaving ice, more ice and still more ice. But hey, it's Winter and we did survive "The Blizzard of 2014". :D
    Thanks again vtMaps, you saved the day for me.
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #43
    Re: May have to shut off my MX-60 on sunny winter days

    been a fun winter so far for me too wayne. temps below normal and so far we're 2.5 times as much snow as normal at 28.6 inches. to think winter is only a few weeks old. i hope it doesn't windup like that bad winter we had a few years back. i think it was in '09. we had 2x the snow for the season and was i believe 3rd or 4th on the record books. i'm a tad better prepared today than back then, but i can still get into trouble as that guy murphy likes me.

    did you put power to your classic to see the led show?
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #44
    Re: May have to shut off my MX-60 on sunny winter days
    niel wrote: »
    been a fun winter so far for me too wayne. temps below normal and so far we're 2.5 times as much snow as normal at 28.6 inches. to think winter is only a few weeks old. i hope it doesn't windup like that bad winter we had a few years back. i think it was in '09. we had 2x the snow for the season and was i believe 3rd or 4th on the record books. i'm a tad better prepared today than back then, but i can still get into trouble as that guy murphy likes me.

    did you put power to your classic to see the led show?
    Many towns here are having emergency meetings to figure out snow removal for the rest of the Winter. A lot of them have burned through their budget in just the first 2 weeks! Glad you're in a better position this year Niel.
    Re the light show, no, haven't yet - - - been holding off pulling the insulating tab from under the memory button-battery, not being sure how long it would hold out without power permanently applied, but may try it later today and perhaps set most of it up before the actual installation. But that won't be till after I get the driveway cleared. Snow blower don't fail me now!
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  • northerner
    northerner Solar Expert Posts: 492 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #45
    Re: May have to shut off my MX-60 on sunny winter days
    waynefromnscanada wrote: »
    The MX would take #4 cable, while the new much more powerful Classic 150 only takes up to #6 wire. Interesting. Gotta downsize some of my cables, or splice on some smaller wire ends.

    I used 2 gauge welding cable for my Classic 150. I just cut off a few strands on the CC end and it works just fine. I noticed previously that 6 gauge cable gets quite warm when the CC is working, and I'm running on a 24 volt system.
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #46
    Re: May have to shut off my MX-60 on sunny winter days
    northerner wrote: »
    I used 2 gauge welding cable for my Classic 150. I just cut off a few strands on the CC end and it works just fine. I noticed previously that 6 gauge cable gets quite warm when the CC is working, and I'm running on a 24 volt system.
    Thanks for that info Northerner. Since my first startled post about the classic not taking anything bigger than #6, I've been educated that it will take #4, and sure enough, with care it will. Had me fooled. Always a good day when I learn something. :D
    Picked up some #4 couple of days ago. Now ready to install as soon as the extreme cold lets up and I can work tight spots with bare fingers. :D
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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #47
    Re: May have to shut off my MX-60 on sunny winter days

    Wayne, look at the MN video on installing a classic on an E-panel about bending those wires, most helpful to the handyman...
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #48
    Re: May have to shut off my MX-60 on sunny winter days
    westbranch wrote: »
    Wayne, look at the MN video on installing a classic on an E-panel about bending those wires, most helpful to the handyman...
    Yes, had a look. Excellent job they do. Looks great, is great. Gotta love nice neat jobs, like music to the eye. :)
    Too often in the past I tended to cut the wire to length and exposed the bare wire needed for the connector first, when it was out where I could easily access it, then bend it. That sometimes partly unwound / unraveled the exposed ends making it difficult to properly insert in tight connectors. They do the bending first, then cut. Makes sense.
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #49
    Re: May have to shut off my MX-60 on sunny winter days

    wayne,
    have no fear in connecting it up without pulling the battery insulating tab. it would still operate the mngp, but would have no memory upon disconnecting just like a dead button battery would cause. it isn't the mngp that you would be watching anyway as there are leds inside the classic where the vent cover is. pull the vent cover and put the classic to the battery and you will see it along with hearing it revving up the fans while it initializes. after seeing it you can put it away again until ready for the install.
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #50
    Re: May have to shut off my MX-60 on sunny winter days
    niel wrote: »
    wayne,
    have no fear in connecting it up without pulling the battery insulating tab. it would still operate the mngp, but would have no memory upon disconnecting just like a dead button battery would cause. it isn't the mngp that you would be watching anyway as there are leds inside the classic where the vent cover is. pull the vent cover and put the classic to the battery and you will see it along with hearing it revving up the fans while it initializes. after seeing it you can put it away again until ready for the install.
    Hey Niel, thanks for battery tab info. Temp was all the way up to the freezing point today. It literally felt balmy after what we've been through the last couple of weeks, so went to work and have a good start on installation. It's mounted and only a couple more cables to arrange. Yanked out a couple of 3 gauge cables that were used with the MX, and hopefully tomorrow will get them replaced with #4, plug in the BTS and then we're ready to flip the breakers and watch nothing happen in the heavy overcast and rainstorm forecast for us tomorrow. Nothing happen that is except for the "blinky lights" :D
    Plan on insulating my batteries now as well. They've been down to minus 10C a couple of mornings. Still supplied all I needed, but due to their low temp, the absorb voltage topped 15.5 and shut down the TS-300 inverters. The old batteries, when I had them insulated, never went below freezing, so I expect basically the same with the Surrettes when insulated. We shall see. So far I'm well satisfied with the Surrettes. Hope I'll still be saying that in 8 or 10 years.
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #51
    Re: May have to shut off my MX-60 on sunny winter days

    from what i've been hearing some may want to take more measures with their batteries outside. this winter is getting ridiculous.

    wish you luck on your install and let us know how it goes.
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #52
    Re: May have to shut off my MX-60 on sunny winter days

    Well got the MN Classic 150 installed today and even got the voltages set (VERY easy) and actually saw it charging before dusk settled over the land and I got too cold to think. :D
    VERY impressed with what I'm seeing so far. Awesome display, it's VERY easy to see compared to what I was used to. Still have a few tweaks and adjustments to make, and eventually make use of the two AUX provisions. Will be interesting to see it do it's thing on a full sun day under load. Looking forward to that.
    I'm convinced I made the best decision, no question. Very impressed with it and so far would highly recommend it to anyone.
    Also got the battery bank insulated today, so hopefully no more minus 10C batteries. :D
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #53
    Re: May have to shut off my MX-60 on sunny winter days

    i'll bet you can't wait for the weather to clear and show you what it can do. the drawback to that is the colder weather after the clearing. your area shows about the mid to lower 40s f across ns now while it is presently -8 f with -29 f wind chill here.:cry: pvs may like it, but it's not doing me much for comfort.
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