Faulty Samlex inverter

hackman22
hackman22 Solar Expert Posts: 27 ✭
in Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems #1
Hi All,
I recently purchased a Samlex SSW-2000-12A inverter for one of my systems. (9-13) Heavier loads would kick in the overload even though my old 1500w inverter would run the loads fine. Other odd things happened as well. After about a month my good logitech computer speakers stopped working.I assumed they just died and bought a new set of the same model.
I have 2 separate solar systems. The other runs just a room AC unit.It had been cloudy for days so to save power I decided to run a fan on the system with the Samlex inverter. It ran kind of rough and after a few minutes you could smell it burning up. I figured,cheap walmart crap and plugged in another identical fan which also died in a couple minutes.
Well somethings not right!
I tested inverter at input... 12.69VDC , AC output 181.5V !! I checked the plugs in the rv and all were putting out over 180V. I notice in the manual it doesn't even mention high AC output (low AC output & high/low DC but not high AC output)
I swapped the inverter out with my backup.
Now I find my new computer speakers are fried as well.Who knows what other damage this caused that I haven't found yet.
I see in the Samlex manual that they say they aren't responsible for damage their inverters may cause but shouldn't they verify the inverters work correctly before shipping them out? Isn't that negligence ?
I'm disabled and on a fixed income I can't afford hundreds of dollars to replace electronics.
Guess I'll send them an email for what good it will do.
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Comments

  • jcheil
    jcheil Solar Expert Posts: 722 ✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: Faulty Samlex inverter

    That really sucks.

    I am a fan of having meters for everything. Well, let me rephrase that, I am the king of overkill for meters.

    I know that a meter won't prevent something like that from happening, but mine are in a commonly used hallway and I am in the habit of looking at them as I pass several times per day. So I would notice if something was "off" and then be able to investigate before something went TOO bad.
    Off-Grid in Central Florida since 2005, Full-Time since June 2014 | 12 X Sovello 205w panels, 9 X ToPoint 220w panels, 36x ToPoint 225w panels (12,525 watts total) | Custom built single-axis ground mounts | Complete FP2 Outback System: 3 x FM80, 2 x VFX3648, X240 Transformer, FLEXnet-DC, Mate-3, Hub-10, FW500 AC/DC | 24 x Trojan L16RE-B Batteries 1110ah @ 48v | Honda EU7000is Generator and a pile of "other" Generators | Home-Made PVC solar hot water collector | Custom data logging software http://www.somewhatcrookedcamp.com/monitormate.html
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  • zoneblue
    zoneblue Solar Expert Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
    Re: Faulty Samlex inverter

    Thats sad, samlex are supposed to be the better end of the less expensive inverters. Hopefully they will RMA the thing efficiently. Let us know how that goes.

    Its hard sometimes isnt it to isolate problems like this, the mind assumes one thing when the problem is another. If theres a moral of the story, is it comissioning testing?

    BTW do you have a decent bank powering that inverter, its capable of drawing the better part of 200 amps.
    1.8kWp CSUN, 10kWh AGM, Midnite Classic 150, Outback VFX3024E,
    http://zoneblue.org/cms/page.php?view=off-grid-solar


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  • hackman22
    hackman22 Solar Expert Posts: 27 ✭
    #4
    Re: Faulty Samlex inverter

    Yeah,It's turning out to be one expensive inverter!
    I have 8 t-105's on that system. It was my first system before I kind of knew what I was doing.My other system is 6 L-16's. each one has 1000W of solar panels. That sound ok to you?
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  • hackman22
    hackman22 Solar Expert Posts: 27 ✭
    #5
    Re: Faulty Samlex inverter

    I'll certainly start checking AC output before plugging anything in from now on. I can't believe I'm still learning stuff! lol
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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #6
    Re: Faulty Samlex inverter

    that is weird, it's right on half way between 120 and 240V....???
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #7
    Re: Faulty Samlex inverter

    My guess he's backfeeding 60V off one inverter though the Neutral in some way back to the other. His A/C inverter probably uses the 60V hot 60V neutral scheme and it's combined in the RV wiring. Disconnect the other Inverter and see if it goes away.
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  • jcheil
    jcheil Solar Expert Posts: 722 ✭✭✭
    #8
    Re: Faulty Samlex inverter
    westbranch wrote: »
    that is weird, it's right on half way between 120 and 240V....???

    A friend had some cheap china inverter and it had dip switches to change from 120v to 240v and from 50hz to 60hz.
    Wonder if somehow that one is set for 240v, but defective in some way and therefore only outputting 187?
    Just a thought.
    Off-Grid in Central Florida since 2005, Full-Time since June 2014 | 12 X Sovello 205w panels, 9 X ToPoint 220w panels, 36x ToPoint 225w panels (12,525 watts total) | Custom built single-axis ground mounts | Complete FP2 Outback System: 3 x FM80, 2 x VFX3648, X240 Transformer, FLEXnet-DC, Mate-3, Hub-10, FW500 AC/DC | 24 x Trojan L16RE-B Batteries 1110ah @ 48v | Honda EU7000is Generator and a pile of "other" Generators | Home-Made PVC solar hot water collector | Custom data logging software http://www.somewhatcrookedcamp.com/monitormate.html
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  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    #9
    Re: Faulty Samlex inverter

    Are both inverters connected to the same AC panel?
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  • Slappy
    Slappy Solar Expert Posts: 251 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #10
    Re: Faulty Samlex inverter

    Check the cooling fan( if it has one) I had an inverter climb in voltage when the fan quit. It was getting hot. In my situation I just replaced the cooling fan. But this may not apply to your situation?
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  • hackman22
    hackman22 Solar Expert Posts: 27 ✭
    #11
    Re: Faulty Samlex inverter

    No, the two systems are total separate.Only 1 can be connected to shore power plug at a time. Once I disconnected the bad inverter and put in my old one (exactly the same) it is 119.4V so it is the inverter.
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #12
    Re: Faulty Samlex inverter
    hackman22 wrote: »
    No, the two systems are total separate.Only 1 can be connected to shore power plug at a time. Once I disconnected the bad inverter and put in my old one (exactly the same) it is 119.4V so it is the inverter.
    Take the Samlex out somewhere and hook it up with a set of jumper cables off a car or something and tell us the output at the receptacle.
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  • hackman22
    hackman22 Solar Expert Posts: 27 ✭
    #13
    Re: Faulty Samlex inverter

    Actually did that earlier today. I'm getting 0 volts and the yellow and green light are on. Turning it off/on multiple times I got momentary readings of 180,120,20,10 but drops back to 0
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #14
    Re: Faulty Samlex inverter
    hackman22 wrote: »
    Actually did that earlier today. I'm getting 0 volts and the yellow and green light are on. Turning it off/on multiple times I got momentary readings of 180,120,20,10 but drops back to 0
    Sounds like it's time for a trip to the Warranty Service department. It's odd that it is 60 V off, one half of the 120 output.

    I am sure you followed this from the Manual.

    Do not connect the power inverter to any AC load circuit in which the Neutral conductor is connected to Ground
    (Earth) or to the Negative of the DC (battery) source.

    The inverter is engineered to be connected directly to standard electrical and electronic equipment in the
    manner described below. Do not connect the power inverter to household or RV AC distribution wiring.

    Switching on
    1. Switch off the load connected to the inverter
    2. Switch on the inverter
    3. Wait for a few seconds
    4. Switch on the load

    Switching off
    1. Switch off the load connected to the inverter
    2. Switch off the inverter

    CONNECTING LOADS
    1. Make sure that the single load or the combined load requirement of your equipment does not exceed
    the inverter’s output rating.
    2. Switch off the inverter
    3. Switch off the load
    4. Plug the cord(s) from the load(s) into the AC receptacle(s) of the inverter
    5. Switch on the inverter. Wait for a few seconds
    6. The green LED indicator will be lighted to indicate that the inverter is functioning
    7. Switch on the load(s)


    .
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  • jcheil
    jcheil Solar Expert Posts: 722 ✭✭✭
    #15
    Re: Faulty Samlex inverter
    Blackcherry04 wrote: »
    Do not connect the power inverter to any AC load circuit in which the Neutral conductor is connected to Ground
    (Earth) or to the Negative of the DC (battery) source.

    The inverter is engineered to be connected directly to standard electrical and electronic equipment in the
    manner described below. Do not connect the power inverter to household or RV AC distribution wiring.

    Which (correct me if I am wrong) would mean they do not want you using this inverter to feed a distribution panel (breaker panel) either at all or specifically where the bonding screw is installed? I had this issue with a neighbor with a similar inverter. Although they did not have the overvoltage issue, the inverter would AC fault the moment it was turned on. When we removed the bonding screw from the breaker panel, all was good. Guess the Inverter does its own neutral-ground bonding (and from what I read it appears to make sense since you should only have one neutral-ground bond and that should be at the "source" of your power - in this case the inverter?).
    Off-Grid in Central Florida since 2005, Full-Time since June 2014 | 12 X Sovello 205w panels, 9 X ToPoint 220w panels, 36x ToPoint 225w panels (12,525 watts total) | Custom built single-axis ground mounts | Complete FP2 Outback System: 3 x FM80, 2 x VFX3648, X240 Transformer, FLEXnet-DC, Mate-3, Hub-10, FW500 AC/DC | 24 x Trojan L16RE-B Batteries 1110ah @ 48v | Honda EU7000is Generator and a pile of "other" Generators | Home-Made PVC solar hot water collector | Custom data logging software http://www.somewhatcrookedcamp.com/monitormate.html
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #16
    Re: Faulty Samlex inverter
    jcheil wrote: »
    Which (correct me if I am wrong) would mean they do not want you using this inverter to feed a distribution panel (breaker panel) either at all or specifically where the bonding screw is installed? I had this issue with a neighbor with a similar inverter. Although they did not have the overvoltage issue, the inverter would AC fault the moment it was turned on. When we removed the bonding screw from the breaker panel, all was good. Guess the Inverter does its own neutral-ground bonding (and from what I read it appears to make sense since you should only have one neutral-ground bond and that should be at the "source" of your power - in this case the inverter?).
    I still question the OP's problem since it's 60 V.


    What precaution should be taken in inverters where none of the current carrying conductors is bonded to the chassis?

    ""In some inverters designed for portable use, the two current carrying conductors connected to the "Line/Live/Hot" slot and the "Neutral / Return / Cold" slot of the receptacle ( for example, 15 A NEMA5-15R) are isolated from the metal chassis of the inverter. In these inverters, none of the two poles can be called Neutral as both these poles are isolated from the chassis of the inverter. Both the Line and Neutral slots of the receptacle will be at an elevated voltage with respect to the chassis - normally around 60 VAC (Half of the voltage between the two current carrying conductors). Hence, do not touch the neutral slot of the receptacle!""

    http://www.samlexamerica.com/support/faqs/faq16.aspx
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  • jcheil
    jcheil Solar Expert Posts: 722 ✭✭✭
    #17
    Re: Faulty Samlex inverter
    Blackcherry04 wrote: »
    What precaution should be taken in inverters where none of the current carrying conductors is bonded to the chassis?

    ""In some inverters designed for portable use, the two current carrying conductors connected to the "Line/Live/Hot" slot and the "Neutral / Return / Cold" slot of the receptacle ( for example, 15 A NEMA5-15R) are isolated from the metal chassis of the inverter. In these inverters, none of the two poles can be called Neutral as both these poles are isolated from the chassis of the inverter. Both the Line and Neutral slots of the receptacle will be at an elevated voltage with respect to the chassis - normally around 60 VAC (Half of the voltage between the two current carrying conductors). Hence, do not touch the neutral slot of the receptacle!""

    http://www.samlexamerica.com/support/faqs/faq16.aspx

    [PS - I am always learning and hopefully my question and your answer will help others]
    So does that explain why (perhaps in this case) they do not want those kind of inverters conencted to a distribution panel?
    Off-Grid in Central Florida since 2005, Full-Time since June 2014 | 12 X Sovello 205w panels, 9 X ToPoint 220w panels, 36x ToPoint 225w panels (12,525 watts total) | Custom built single-axis ground mounts | Complete FP2 Outback System: 3 x FM80, 2 x VFX3648, X240 Transformer, FLEXnet-DC, Mate-3, Hub-10, FW500 AC/DC | 24 x Trojan L16RE-B Batteries 1110ah @ 48v | Honda EU7000is Generator and a pile of "other" Generators | Home-Made PVC solar hot water collector | Custom data logging software http://www.somewhatcrookedcamp.com/monitormate.html
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #18
    Re: Faulty Samlex inverter
    jcheil wrote: »
    [PS - I am always learning and hopefully my question and your answer will help others]
    So does that explain why (perhaps in this case) they do not want those kind of inverters conencted to a distribution panel?
    Because the neutral is carrying 60 V ac and it goes back through the ground ( that is not grounded in a RV unless the shore power cord is connected to grid ) and gives you 180 v ac is a guess.
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  • hackman22
    hackman22 Solar Expert Posts: 27 ✭
    #19
    Re: Faulty Samlex inverter

    Battery bank + & - thru fuse to inverter = AC output of 178-185v . Forget the RV,shore power plug and AC panel. Just the battery bank and inverter with no load and it's putting out that voltage.
    I think the voltage has been getting progressively higher since I installed it. It couldn't have been 180v for long or I would have burned up those fans long ago. I think it has to do with that smart start technology but it ain't as smart as it thinks it is.
    waiting on rma.....
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  • zoneblue
    zoneblue Solar Expert Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭✭
    #20
    Re: Faulty Samlex inverter

    When it comes back you need to get very clear on the earthing. PSW inverters designed for household use have no internal bonding, and the earth neutral bond is made in the distribution box. If the inverter has its own earthing, if its disablable then disable it. If not maybe its not a good choice for home use. I was under the impression that only MSW inverters did this kind of thing? I have seen those "dont connect to household" stickers, and in some cases it translates "dont do this at home kids", "use a qualified electricican". However it is possible that it also translates as: 'the internal bonding may conflict with that in the ac dist'. Two earth netrual bonds isnt good, but not magic smoke producing. But an inverter with an input/output bond will most likely pop when connected to an ac panel.

    On the overall system questions, 1000W pv, 8 105s. The parallel batterys should on paper give you the amps the inverter needs assuming you have 4/0 wire. But it isnt always that black and white. The weaker and stronger batterys dont share evenly. Still you know all that, or you wouldnt have upgraded to L16s.

    It also means what, about 900Ah. C10 would be around 1200W, so your panel to batt ratio is not too far off, but its still a lot of amps for 12 volts.

    Basically your growing system is starting to demand a higher bank voltage. Is there any chance you can ask for a 24v replacement?
    1.8kWp CSUN, 10kWh AGM, Midnite Classic 150, Outback VFX3024E,
    http://zoneblue.org/cms/page.php?view=off-grid-solar


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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #21
    Re: Faulty Samlex inverter

    ZB, that model is a TSW inverter

    True sine wave output for sensitive loadshttp://www.samlexamerica.com/products/ProductDetail.aspx?pid=111
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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  • hackman22
    hackman22 Solar Expert Posts: 27 ✭
    #22
    Re: Faulty Samlex inverter

    UPDATE:
    Samlex tested inverter and indeed it was putting out 185v or so. They could not determine why. They said they were sending me a new pst-2000-12v for a replacement. (I asked for that one instead since I already have one and it works well.) They sent me a piece of junk refurbished? by a 7 year old. I contacted them again. They said it was a mistake and finally sent me a new one.I asked for a label to send back the junky one but I don't think they want it. :) Nice PST-2000. It has hard wire AC output available on the front. Samlex was a little slow but in the end everything worked out well. Thanks for everyone's input.
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  • WillBkool
    WillBkool Solar Expert Posts: 35 ✭✭
    #23
    Re: Faulty Samlex inverter

    Glad it worked out for you. I was thinking of going with a Samlex PST 1500w 24v inverter but now I'm not so sure.
    1220 Watts, 4 Evergreen 120 watt, 1 Eoplly 190 watt; 1 Sungold 200 watt; 2 175 Watt; M-Star 15A MPPT; C40 PWM; 6 105 AH AGM Configured to 315@24V
    Cotek 1500 watt/24v
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  • Rybren
    Rybren Solar Expert Posts: 351 ✭✭
    #24
    Re: Faulty Samlex inverter

    I have the PST 1500-24. It was only operational for a couple of months before winter set in and I closed the camp for the season.

    In the short time that I had it up and running, it was fine - would run my 10A circular saw, my reciprocating saw, and jig saw fine without issue.

    Once spring rolls around, I see what it will do with heavier loads.
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #25
    Re: Faulty Samlex inverter

    It's always nice to have a resolution of a Issue, but having to wait 3-4 months when your off grid becomes a huge problem. You either have to own a spare or some other kind of a backup, without it your sitting in the dark.
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