Grounding System on a small boat
lazza
Solar Expert Posts: 336 ✭✭✭
HI, have been searching forum but couldnt come up with the answer.
What sort of grounding should you have on a boat? Should the -ve battery terminal be grounded as well as the AC PE wire and Neutral?
thanks
Larry
What sort of grounding should you have on a boat? Should the -ve battery terminal be grounded as well as the AC PE wire and Neutral?
thanks
Larry
Comments
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Re: Grounding System on a small boatHI, have been searching forum but couldnt come up with the answer.
What sort of grounding should you have on a boat? Should the -ve battery terminal be grounded as well as the AC PE wire and Neutral?
thanks
Larry
I think a floating ground would work on a boat.
http://www.sailmail.com/grounds.htm -
Re: Grounding System on a small boat
You have to be a little more specific on exactly what you are hooking up. (Shore power, AC inverter, etc).
One of the primary things you have to provide protection for is stepping on and off the boat where someone might have one hand on some conducting surface on boat and other hand grabbing something grounded on shore.
All shore power feeds should only be from a GFCI protected lines.
Small floating neutral inverters are tricky. Small modified sinewave inverters often do not allow their neutrals connected to ground. -
Re: Grounding System on a small boat
Its an AC inverter that will be connected to the 2 main boat batteries of 180Ah each. The inverter is TSW and there is an option to ground the neutral in this case. It's actually mainly a fibreglass boat -
Re: Grounding System on a small boat
Lazza,
As you know, grounding is a big/complex issue... And doing it wrong can let out magic smoke and other problems.
So--If the boat's AC power system is shore powered with a transfer switch to the local inverter... Really need to know the brand/model of inverter and how your transfer switch system is setup/works.
First, the usual warnings:- Never directly connect the output of a standard off-grid inverter to AC mains.
- Most TSW inverters can have an output wire grounded (for neutral). And most MSW inverters cannot. However, there is enough variability in design (and safety issues) that you need to read the manual for your particular inverter. A mistake, at the very least, will usually ruin your inverter.
- Most shore power/utilities ground reference their neutral ground. And, it is usually a good idea not to ground reference the neutral again in your vehicle/boat. Note, in North America, we do ground reference the transformer at the pole, and again at the entrance to the home. It does have its issues--But that is the "way it is done" per code. Grounding a neutral again in the boat can raise issues with redundant current paths (neutral and green wire ground in parallel). If one wire is broken, it may not be obvious--and can cause a smaller wire to carry over it rated current in some cases.
So, to your case. Grounding the Neutral is done so that all largish metal objects (plumbing, sinks, stoves, refrigerators, etc.) are always at the same potential as "earth". If you grab something in one hand and place the other on a sink (for example), you should not get shocked. Double insulated appliances (blenders, drills, mixers, etc.) do not have exposed metal that can become "electrofied" unless there are TWO (unlikely) FAILURES in the device's electrical wiring. So, some appliances only have the two wire connections instead of three.
The normal way to add a second level of protection is to install a GFI (Ground Fault Interrupter) outlet or breaker on circuits that are near water/outside/etc. If there is a current flow from Hot to "elsewhere" (ground, etc.), then the GFI will open and prevent (hopefully) dangerous current flow.
The other reasons for grounding include lightning protection (important on a boat) and to ensure that any short from "hot" to earth will trip a breaker (instead of making that metal object hot).
So--back to your needs. If you have shore power, you should not make a hard neutral to earth bond. If you have a transfer switch, a two pole transfer switch will allow you to ground reference the inverter's output (assuming TSW or other inverter that supports earth reference). The transfer switch will switch both Hot and Neutral wiring. Hot from shore to inverter. And the Neutral--which will be ground reference (if shore) or ground referenced (if local inverter).
In general, with a small inverter it is of questionable value if it is important to ground reference its AC output. With most MSW inverters, you cannot ground reference their output (i.e., share ground with battery "-" and ground reference an AC output). With TSW (and isolated MSW) inverters, you can either let the output float (which in itself, a pretty good safety feature--you cannot get a short with a single connection to AC "Hot") or grounding/making a "neutral" output (common ground inside the boat).
Sorry for the long and confusing post. Questions? Avoid me?
-BillNear San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset -
Re: Grounding System on a small boatAs you know, grounding is a big/complex issue...
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Re: Grounding System on a small boat
My take
I got Small & fibreglass with two 180Ah Battery's.
Power & sail have different grounding systems, Rigging can have it's own on sail and some boats use a special tracking system so they don't become a harbour ground.
There are NO GFI's feeding our shore power , plus my neighbour slip-mate has two 50 amp feeds(Power boat & hog),Shore cable is 28mm thick ..
Is there an onboard battery maintainer / charger ? Inboard or outboards , Do you have shore power ? If so how is used plus all the rest.
If we get back that we are looking at a 19 foot outboard trailer unit or a 29 foot deep vee cruiser , they would have totally different items to consider.
Now lets really stir the pot with adding a mast or two and rigging.
Mr Larry , we would need much more info .
Plus is this vessel insured ??Cuz mine must be inspected to pass for insurance purposes ..
MikeO , I believe your thinking of the inverter/charger type of switching grounds.
VT -
Re: Grounding System on a small boat
Ok, I think we can simplify things a bit here:- There is no shore power.
- The boat is small with just an engine and no masts and is mainly fibreglass.. 6m long by 2m wide or such like..
- The inverter we are planning to install is the following, its a TSW with an option to connect the neutral to ground.: http://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Manual%20-%20Phoenix%20Inverter%20750%20-%20rev%2004%20-%20EN.pdf
- Maybe we can ignore lightning grounds in this case as it's not part of our job
So as far as I understand:
The inverter chassis needs to be connected to ground. This creates a direct connection from the PE wire in the AC output cabling to the common ground bus. The reason for this is to prevent a shock if the current carrying wires AC wires happen to come into contact with the metal frame of electrical equipment (connected to the PE wire)- thus if someone happens to touch the now "hot" metal frame, they wont get a shock because the current has an easier path through the PE ground wire, through the inverter ground connetion, to the common ground bus. The short to ground caused by this failure (hot wire touching a metal frame), should also trip a GFCI.
However all this will only happen if the neutral is grounded too.
So if I choose a to go for a floating neutral, what's the point of the grounding, the PE wire and the GFCI?
Another question... what causes electrolytic corrosion? what should be done to prevent it? -
Re: Grounding System on a small boat
Im going with a run-a-boat , small day boat. (inboard or outboard ??,,)
Connect all PV,inverter ,CC to the boats negative. (can be battery or if the engine is inboard , a good cleaned block area, Use copper to steel or stainless to aluminum with aluminum paste (nylocal type of aluminum better connection paste) Keeping the metals that join happy is as important as any grounds .electrolysis eats with time.
I would float the neutral being 220 to a GFI and then wire any other plugs off that GFI .. Use the GFI ground to the same common ground as the above mentioned .
No shore power , this is just like a off grid..
Your second question , use google or duckduck.
VT -
Re: Grounding System on a small boatAnother question... what causes electrolytic corrosion? what should be done to prevent it?
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