New Batteries

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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #32
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    Re: New Batteries
    northerner wrote: »
    So are you saying that the manufacturers claims are false. They claim a reduction of water loss by 50 to 60%. I talked to a fellow that installs systems and he said they help reduce water loss. But I may have misinterpreted the reduction of gassing. They do say it reduces the risk of explosion from escaping gasses (ie hydrogen and oxygen) But, in any case, the batteries should never be exposed to a source of ignition. So a correction on my part, they don't reduce the amount of gassing, but manufacturers claims are a reduction in water loss.

    http://www.flowsystemsusa.com/water-miser-vent-cap.html

    There is a reduction in water loss, but it only the water in the electrolyte droplets (acid mist) that is conserved. The Hydrogen and oxygen that are produced by gassing represent a water loss that water miser caps do not prevent. As inetdog mentioned there are catalyst caps that do recombine hydrogen and oxygen and they can be poisoned by acid mist. They can also be damaged by overheating that occurs during heavy gassing (such as equalization). The manufacturer recommends that you remove the caps for equalization... just when they should be doing the most good.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • northerner
    northerner Solar Expert Posts: 492 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #33
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    Re: New Batteries
    vtmaps wrote: »
    There is a reduction in water loss, but it only the water in the electrolyte droplets (acid mist) that is conserved. The Hydrogen and oxygen that are produced by gassing represent a water loss that water miser caps do not prevent. As inetdog mentioned there are catalyst caps that do recombine hydrogen and oxygen and they can be poisoned by acid mist. They can also be damaged by overheating that occurs during heavy gassing (such as equalization). The manufacturer recommends that you remove the caps for equalization... just when they should be doing the most good.

    --vtMaps

    Ok, I see what you meant now. Thanks for the clarification!

    The manufacturer of the water miser caps claim that their caps "nearly" eliminate the need for equalization. Has anyone verified this?
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #34
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    Re: New Batteries
    northerner wrote: »
    Ok, I see what you meant now. Thanks for the clarification!

    The manufacturer of the water miser caps claim that their caps "nearly" eliminate the need for equalization. Has anyone verified this?

    :confused: I can't see any reason why the caps alone would change the need for EQ.
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  • inetdog
    inetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    #35
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    Re: New Batteries
    northerner wrote: »
    Ok, I see what you meant now. Thanks for the clarification!
    "nearly" eliminate the need for equalization.
    Wow! I could see nearly eliminating the need to add water, and nearly eliminating the need to add actual electrolyte to make up for lost acid in the mist. But nobody does the latter anyway.
    But I cannot figure out any way that it could eliminate the need for equalization.
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
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  • northerner
    northerner Solar Expert Posts: 492 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #36
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    Re: New Batteries
    inetdog wrote: »
    Wow! I could see nearly eliminating the need to add water, and nearly eliminating the need to add actual electrolyte to make up for lost acid in the mist. But nobody does the latter anyway.
    But I cannot figure out any way that it could eliminate the need for equalization.

    Likely due to allowing for more aggressive charging, because water loss is minimized. Won't eliminate the need for equalization, but may reduce it.
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  • Mangas
    Mangas Solar Expert Posts: 547 ✭✭✭✭
    #37
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    Re: New Batteries

    64 L16 REB's with 192 water miser caps.

    In my experience, a combination of the caps and the newer battery paste and plates have reduced the L16 water top ups to about 2-3 times a year versus 4-6 times a year with old set up (with caps). I used to need 8 gallons or more per top up but now need less than 5 and the cell water levels are more uniform and higher between intervals.

    I am researching how long the water misers will last. Their OEM rubber seals seem to be the most vulnerable. I am looking around for aftermarket rubber washer replacements.

    The water miser caps are 8 years old.
    Ranch Off Grid System & Custom Home: 2 x pair stacked Schneider XW 5548+ Plus inverters (4), 2 x Schneider MPPT 80-600 Charge Controllers, 2 Xanbus AGS Generator Start and Air Extraction System Controllers, 64 Trojan L16 REB 6v 375 AH Flooded Cel Batteries w/Water Miser Caps, 44 x 185 Sharp Solar Panels, Cummins Onan RS20 KW Propane Water Cooled Genset, ICF Custom House Construction, all appliances, Central A/C, 2 x High Efficiency Variable Speed three ton Central A/C 220v compressors, 2 x Propane furnaces, 2 x Variable Speed Air Handlers, 2 x HD WiFi HVAC Zoned System Controllers
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  • LOTW
    LOTW Solar Expert Posts: 25 ✭
    #38
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    Re: New Batteries

    Well I am down to either 16 Crown CR-305 (48v 610AH) or 16 Crown 6crp400 RE Line, 48v650AH). The RE are close to 100 extra per battery, but have a little extra warranty and include the water misers which will be 250 for the others. Tough decision, will let everyone know what I end up with in the end, and how they turn out.

    Thanks for the input.
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  • NorthGuy
    NorthGuy Solar Expert Posts: 1,913 ✭✭
    #39
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    Re: New Batteries
    LOTW wrote: »
    The RE are close to 100 extra per battery, but have a little extra warranty ...

    If you read the fine print on their warranty, you'll see that this is more like no warranty at all:

    "A battery will not be considered failed, defective or unserviceable unless it fails to deliver 50% or more of its rated capacity (temperature corrected to 80°F) during the warranty period. A failed battery is not necessarily due to a manufacturing defect and must be verified."

    "The Manufacturer or its authorized representative may inspect the battery, which may require having the batteries sent for testing to Manufacturer or its authorized facility with freight prepaid by the customer. Acceptance of the battery at the facility for testing does not mean that the Manufacturer will accept the warranty claim. Batteries still in serviceable condition or otherwise not covered by this Limited Warranty will be returned to the customer at the customer's expense and may be subject to a testing fee."
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,457 admin
    #40
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    Re: New Batteries

    Wow--50% of rated capacity--Wonder if that is a "new" requirement or not.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • LOTW
    LOTW Solar Expert Posts: 25 ✭
    #41
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    Re: New Batteries
    NorthGuy wrote: »
    If you read the fine print on their warranty, you'll see that this is more like no warranty at all:

    "A battery will not be considered failed, defective or unserviceable unless it fails to deliver 50% or more of its rated capacity (temperature corrected to 80°F) during the warranty period. A failed battery is not necessarily due to a manufacturing defect and must be verified."

    "The Manufacturer or its authorized representative may inspect the battery, which may require having the batteries sent for testing to Manufacturer or its authorized facility with freight prepaid by the customer. Acceptance of the battery at the facility for testing does not mean that the Manufacturer will accept the warranty claim. Batteries still in serviceable condition or otherwise not covered by this Limited Warranty will be returned to the customer at the customer's expense and may be subject to a testing fee."

    That is for Trojan though...I didn't see anything like that in the Crown stuff. Both of the ones I mentioned there are Crown.
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  • NorthGuy
    NorthGuy Solar Expert Posts: 1,913 ✭✭
    #42
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    Re: New Batteries
    LOTW wrote: »
    That is for Trojan though...I didn't see anything like that in the Crown stuff. Both of the ones I mentioned there are Crown.

    I'm very sorry. Please accept my apologies.
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  • LOTW
    LOTW Solar Expert Posts: 25 ✭
    #43
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    Re: New Batteries
    NorthGuy wrote: »
    I'm very sorry. Please accept my apologies.

    Oh no, I just wanted to make sure I didn't miss something! This is by far the most difficult decision in the solar world, at least for me.
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