Home Solar System will not recharge system to 100%?

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sisterevil
sisterevil Registered Users Posts: 1
in Solar Beginners Corner #1
My parents live off the grid at our family cabin in Youbou, British Columbia. They installed a solar system powered by gas generator approximately 7 years ago. The last 2 years they have been having extreme problems getting the system to fully charge to 100%. They recently just replaced the battery packs and the first time it charged to 100% now not even a month later the MOST it goes up is 85%? This is after leaving the generator on 6 or 7 hours? ***? My dad tried calling Magna Sine the company that made the system and they said warranty is up not our problem. They are spending 30 dollars a day in fuel which totally defeats having this system. No one can seem to want to help figure out this problem, so I am going to try hopefully someone here will be able to!

This is the system setup information.

Solar Panels – Make is Sharp, 6 panels of 175 watt each = 1050 watt, angle mounted on the roof of their home

Batteries – 8 batteries, 6 volt, deep cycle flooded, 400 ah 20 hour rate

Other than the magnasine, are there any solar charge controllers – Outback Power Systems M60PVMPPT, maximum powerpoint charge controller

Generator – Honda EM5000is 120/240 volt, rated 60 hz rated output KVA 4.5, unit takes regular gasoline.

I hope this information helps and yes we are in Canada. My parents live in Youbou on Lake Cowichan in British Columbia.
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #2
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    Re: Home Solar System will not recharge system to 100%?

    Welcome to the forum.

    Okay we need to check some specs and terminology first.

    What is the system Voltage? Eight 6 Volts could be 12, 24, or 48 Volts depending on how they are wired and how they are wired can make a big difference in performance (especially after a few years).

    So in short form those batteries could be configured as:

    1600 Amp hours @ 12 Volts (needs 160 Amps peak charge current)
    800 Amp hours @ 24 Volts (needs 80 Amps peak charge current)
    400 Amp hours @ 48 Volts (needs 40 Amps peak charge current)

    They have a 1050 Watt array on an Outback FM60 charge controller. That would be about 68 Amps on a 12 Volt system, 34 Amps on a 24 Volt system, or 17 Amps on a 48 Volt system.

    In any case the array is not large enough to properly charge the battery bank. Possibly larger batteries were bought than were originally installed?

    I'm going to assume that Magnasine is the inverter brand (not familiar with it) and that it has a built-in charger. I do not know its maximum output capacity. At this time of year they'd need to run the generator a lot to make up for the small array to battery ratio. Some more info about this part of the system would be helpful.
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #3
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    Re: Home Solar System will not recharge system to 100%?

    Couple of questions I forgot to ask:

    1). What exactly are the batteries? Sounds like Surrette S-530's. (Which doesn't bode well, sorry to say.)
    2). How is the state of charge being measured that is determining 100% is not being reached? Hopefully with a hydrometer and not just a Voltmeter.
    3). Which Magnasine inverter-charger?
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,457 admin
    #4
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    Re: Home Solar System will not recharge system to 100%?

    If anyone there is somewhat familier with using a volt meter... I would suggest getting a DC current clamp (digital multi) meter such as this "good enough" inexpensive meter from Sears (this the US website and sometimes may or may not work for Canadians).

    The fact the system used to work well for a number of years--Sort of indicates that something has changed--A "too big" battery bank (with no increase in solar array/AC generator charging) could be an issue.

    Or it could anything from a poor electrical connection, corroded cable from battery acid, a parallel connection failure (i.e., only 2/3'rds of the solar array is working, etc.). It even could be a load that people forgot about (a pump switch failed, electric heater stuck on, etc.).

    Measuring battery specific gravity with a hydrometer, measuring cells/batteries with an accurate volt meter (logging data and state of charging system), and using the DC current clamp meter to measure current flow through the battery bank (and parallel battery strings if present), parallel solar array connections, etc... (DC current clamp meters are much safer than using standard current meters as you don't have to break the wiring connection to measure current--and they can read upwards of 400 amps instead of the 10 amps that most DMMs can read).

    Anyway--You are starting correctly--The first thing to do is get the battery bank stable (over 90% charged a couple times a week). And while that is going on with the generator, start looking at the solar part of the system.

    So--first questions--What are the specific gravity readings of the battery cells, what is the charging current you are seeing (voltage/current) and loads.

    Depending on batteries/temperature/etc... To fully charge the battery bank you should be holding somewhere around 29-30 volts for 2-4 hours (after the battery has gone through "bulk charging"--Maximum current from the charging sources until the batteries reach around 80-90% state of charge, then held at ~29 volts for the next ~4 hours)... At lease several times a week.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
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    Re: Home Solar System will not recharge system to 100%?

    Add to Coots list of questions
    4 what are the daily loads this system has to deliver? xxxKWhrs?
    5.what major appliances are used fridge, elec stove, furnace Microwave? waterpump?
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #6
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    Re: Home Solar System will not recharge system to 100%?
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    "... Magnasine is the inverter brand (not familiar with it....

    If it was writen as "MagnaSign" maybe you would recognise it as a Magnum inverter!
    I think the Magnum inverters require the remote to change the charging parameters(I think).

    This is going to be like fixxing a computer problem, if it was working and you made a change(added a program) that's likely where the problem came from!

    As others have asked, what was you battery bank and what was it replaced with?
    Did you change your charging parameters on the inverter? the Charge controller? to match the new batteries? Even flooded Lead acid batteries have different charging regims these days...
    Are you measuring % of charge with a Trimetric Meter? Did you reset it and change the parameters to match the new battery bank?

    I think both Trojan and Rolls want a higher voltage cap these days than they did 7 years ago...
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #7
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    Re: Home Solar System will not recharge system to 100%?

    photowhit is correct that magnasign is from magnum energy and that the built in chargers are preset and need the remote to change to special parameters.

    i guess you will need to divulge much more info such as the battery bank voltage with old and new battery specs (volts and amp hours capacity) along with the model of the inverter and if a remote and/or battery monitor is there.
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