Is it worth it? Pre-wired Panels...

johnT
johnT Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭✭
I will some day (hopefully not too long) be installing an off-grid solar system, and to cut down on install time and also the chance of me wiring something wrong or just plain forgetting something, I am considering getting a preassembled panel (Outback Power Flexpower FP1-26 Off-Grid System). My question is if there is a lot of unnecessary hardware that I would be paying for that I would never use, and if in the end it is worth it to go that route. I added up the cost of all the components separately and the price seems good considering it comes ready to hook up. Just curious if the experienced solar users see these pre-wired panels and think "Someone would have to be crazy to waste their money on this", and if so, why? Just looking for opinions...thanks

Comments

  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Is it worth it? Pre-wired Panels...

    Before you buy components or a system--You really should have a good idea of how much power you will need for you home/cabin/etc. based on where you life and your life style.

    A Kill-a-Watt type meter is a great start for plug in appliances (120 VAC 15 amp maximum).

    I guess you are down in Venezuela... What are your power needs as you see them. Also--What about the amount of sun you will have during the year (by season, etc.).

    Getting pre-wired systems that meet your needs can be very nice if you are a long ways from the local electrical/solar supply stores. Especially if this is your first time.

    You can buy kits, and you can also define your needs and vendors will build out/wire/pre-test a system to your specifications before they ship it to you too.

    But solar power is not cheap, and power usage is highly personal... We have people that live in the middle of no-where that have a 1,000 watts of panels and a few golf cart batteries and are quite happy. And folks with 4,000-8,000 watts of panels, a room full of batteries that run Air Conditioning systems for their homes/offices.

    What is it that you need? I would suggest ~3.3 kWH (3,300 Watt*Hours) per day (100 kWH) per month as a nice starting point for a home/cabin with lots of conservation, and modern appliances (refrigerator, washing machine, water pump, laptop computer, etc.)...

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Is it worth it? Pre-wired Panels...

    You can buy a prewired Outback system on a Midnite E-panel:
    http://www.solar-electric.com/ouinsy.html
    If you don't see the exact system you want, talk to Midnite or NAWS. They can prewire almost anything you might want.

    If you ever need to modify or customize the system (or even change out some cables), you will find that the Midnite Epanel is a bit roomier and easier to work on than Outback's prewired system.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • johnT
    johnT Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭✭
    Re: Is it worth it? Pre-wired Panels...

    Thanks for the input guys. I do have one follow up question. I noticed that the price difference for pretty much all of the pre-wired systems only vary by a few hundred dollars regardless of the specs (this is only based on NAWS prices, haven't looked around much). So my question is: if I only need say a 2,500 watt inverter system for my planned needs, is there any drawbacks to go ahead and get a larger one on the off chance I expand in the future? Is there any harm in having a 4,400 watt inverter and only using around half of it's capacity? My thinking would be that there could be no harm in it, but then I wonder why they would bother to sell the smaller ones for near the same price...why wouldn't everyone get the bigger one for basically the same money in case you need it down the road?
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Is it worth it? Pre-wired Panels...

    The large DC breaker is typically sized for the inverter input, and AC breakers for the output.

    So they are somewhat inverter specific, E Panels that mount the inverter on the front door are inverter specific. If in the future you move from a 12 volt to a 24 or 48 volt sysem with a larger inverter the same breaker may be required. 12 volt system use higher amps...

    If your current needs are for a off grid system with out in coming AC from grid or genny a DC disconect might be all you need...

    NAWS currently has a generic E Panel in their closeout bin.

    If you will be using a genny or AC to charge PM and happen to use a magnum inverter PM me!
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Is it worth it? Pre-wired Panels...

    Forgot, I actually got a "power center" for my cabin, basically E-Panel, 'like' with an integrated 60 amp PWM charge controller. It was fantasticly easy. I purchased an E-Panel for my next system this fall I think it will make things easier.

    While I will have no AC or generator, I'll use the AC breaker for current running to the panel in the house. I'll mount 90 amp panel mount breakers, for my 2 Classic Charge controllers, it has a shunt for my trimetric meter.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Is it worth it? Pre-wired Panels...
    johnT wrote: »
    So my question is: if I only need say a 2,500 watt inverter system for my planned needs, is there any drawbacks to go ahead and get a larger one on the off chance I expand in the future? Is there any harm in having a 4,400 watt inverter and only using around half of it's capacity? My thinking would be that there could be no harm in it

    It is good to use your inverter at less than its rated output... it will run cooler and last longer.
    johnT wrote: »
    but then I wonder why they would bother to sell the smaller ones for near the same price...why wouldn't everyone get the bigger one for basically the same money in case you need it down the road?

    Please be specific about which inverters you are referring to. Sometimes a smaller inverter may be more efficient for a small load. In the outback line there are two inverters which are basically the same, but one is a sealed unit (no internal vent fan) and has a lower output rating.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • johnT
    johnT Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭✭
    Re: Is it worth it? Pre-wired Panels...

    From what I see, NAWS offers a total of 11 off-grid preassembled units: 6 24V units varying in size from 2,500 to 4,000 watts and 5 48V units from 3,000 to 4,400 watts. Now for example if I decided to go with Outback Flexware line, they would have 2 48V off-grid systems: a 3,000 watt for $3,240 and a 3,600 watt for $3,380. Like I had said earlier, I would only have to have the 3,000 watt version for my planned needs at this point. But, to me if I am going to spend over 3 grand on one of these I would surely spring for the extra $140 and give myself those extra 600 watts to possibly have a little room for growth if there is no harm in over sizing your inverter a little.

    Now, the Midnite Solar Prebuilt Outback systems make more sense...only 2 options in each voltage (both 3,600 watts in the 48V versions) for basically the same price with the only difference being the panel they use to build with. BUT, if I am going to jump from the Flexware line (around $3,300) to the Midnite line (around $3,700), then why not spend the extra 80 bucks and get the Magnum version with the 4,400 Watt inverter and again give myself that extra 800 watts for room to grow if the need arises?

    So I guess my conclusion would be this. I can save myself $400 and get the Flexpower FP1-2 3,600 Watts 48 Volts - Off-Grid, or...jump up to the Midnite line and get the MidNite Solar Prebuilt Magnum System 4,400 Watts 48 VDC 120/240VAC Off-Grid. And to be honest, at this point if we are talking about a system that is going to hopefully last for many, many years and is going to run me at least $3,400 anyway, I am inclined to go ahead and spend the extra $400 and have the room to grow. Any thoughts?
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Is it worth it? Pre-wired Panels...

    Check the standby loads of the inverter (larger inverters typically have more standby losses), and their options ("sleep mode" if needed, metering, etc... thinks that you would like).

    Regarding costs--Remember that (very roughly) you will probably need a new battery bank every 6-8 years (longer if more expensive) and I would have money in the bank for new "electronics" (charge controller, inverter, etc.) every 10+ years (may last longer, may not--but electronics over 10 years old are very difficult/expensive to repair--usually no vendor support and hard to find parts for the old devices).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Is it worth it? Pre-wired Panels...
    johnT wrote: »
    Now for example if I decided to go with Outback Flexware line, they would have 2 48V off-grid systems: a 3,000 watt for $3,240 and a 3,600 watt for $3,380. Like I had said earlier, I would only have to have the 3,000 watt version for my planned needs at this point. But, to me if I am going to spend over 3 grand on one of these I would surely spring for the extra $140 and give myself those extra 600 watts to possibly have a little room for growth if there is no harm in over sizing your inverter a little.

    The difference is between an FX3048 and a VFX3648. They are basically the same electrically. The FX is sealed (for harsh or extra dusty environments) and more difficult to cool and is therefore rated lower wattage. The VFX has internal cooling fan and gets an extra 600 watts rating.
    johnT wrote: »
    So I guess my conclusion would be this. I can save myself $400 and get the Flexpower FP1-2 3,600 Watts 48 Volts - Off-Grid, or...jump up to the Midnite line

    Last time I took a detailed look, the Midnites were the better value, as well as being easier to work in. What do you get for lightning protection in the flexware? What charge controller do you get on the midnite panel?

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i