Well & Pump at a clinic in Haiti
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KeithWHare
Solar Expert Posts: 140 ✭✭✭
We have new well at the clinic I've worked with about 10 miles east of Port au Prince Haiti. The well is 6" in diameter, 275 feet deep with an estimated static level of 180 to 200 feet. My plan is to install a Grundfos 6 SQF 2 pump at about 250 feet. We will be pumping into a 500 gallon tank on the roof of the clinic, and potentially into a second 500 gallon tank on the roof of a not-yet-built building.
I am currently debating between two Grundfos pump controls:
I am also debating where to put them. We will (eventually) have a concrete pad at the well head with a 2-3 block wall and a lockable metal top.
Because we are potentially pumping to two separate buildings with a manually controlled y-valve, and I don't see how to do a float switch on two separate tanks, the Grundfos CU 101 is my current preference, and the well building is my preferred location.
The question is, how well to the Grundfos control units have to be protected from the weather? Is it safe to mount either of them in a structure that could potentially be left open to the weather?
Another option is to mount the control unit inside the utility room of the clinic, but that would be more awkward if we are using a manual control.
Keith
I am currently debating between two Grundfos pump controls:
- Grundfos CU 200 SQFlex control unit
- Grundfos IO 101 SQFlex switch box
I am also debating where to put them. We will (eventually) have a concrete pad at the well head with a 2-3 block wall and a lockable metal top.
Because we are potentially pumping to two separate buildings with a manually controlled y-valve, and I don't see how to do a float switch on two separate tanks, the Grundfos CU 101 is my current preference, and the well building is my preferred location.
The question is, how well to the Grundfos control units have to be protected from the weather? Is it safe to mount either of them in a structure that could potentially be left open to the weather?
Another option is to mount the control unit inside the utility room of the clinic, but that would be more awkward if we are using a manual control.
Keith
Comments
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Re: Well & Pump at a clinic in HaitiKeithWHare wrote: »We have new well at the clinic I've worked with about 10 miles east of Port au Prince Haiti. The well is 6" in diameter, 275 feet deep with an estimated static level of 180 to 200 feet. My plan is to install a Grundfos 6 SQF 2 pump at about 250 feet. We will be pumping into a 500 gallon tank on the roof of the clinic, and potentially into a second 500 gallon tank on the roof of a not-yet-built building.
I am currently debating between two Grundfos pump controls:- Grundfos CU 200 SQFlex control unit
- Grundfos IO 101 SQFlex switch box
I am also debating where to put them. We will (eventually) have a concrete pad at the well head with a 2-3 block wall and a lockable metal top.
Because we are potentially pumping to two separate buildings with a manually controlled y-valve, and I don't see how to do a float switch on two separate tanks, the Grundfos CU 101 is my current preference, and the well building is my preferred location.
The question is, how well to the Grundfos control units have to be protected from the weather? Is it safe to mount either of them in a structure that could potentially be left open to the weather?
Another option is to mount the control unit inside the utility room of the clinic, but that would be more awkward if we are using a manual control.
Keith
One alternative is to mechanically link the manual valve to a switch which selects which float switch is connected to the pump controller. This will not work if you have two separate valves that can both be open at the same time. For the situation where you are trying to fill both tanks at once, the only option I see is a float-controlled water shutoff valve for each tank at or just above the level of the electric float switch. If you put in a float valve in each tank, the only other thing you should do is set up a switch so that the pump will not run when both manual valves are closed.SMA SB 3000, old BP panels. -
Re: Well & Pump at a clinic in Haiti
If you can use float valves to shut off the incoming water to the tank and a pressure switch on the pump to turn it off when the pressure rises against the closed valve this might work better. Since you are filling reservoirs and not pressure tanks the psi involved will be relatively low. -
Re: Well & Pump at a clinic in HaitiCariboocoot wrote: »If you can use float valves to shut off the incoming water to the tank and a pressure switch on the pump to turn it off when the pressure rises against the closed valve this might work better. Since you are filling reservoirs and not pressure tanks the psi involved will be relatively low.
The only potential problem with that is that you will need a check valve (which may be part of the pump already) and at least a tiny pressure tank to hold the pump pressure switch off once it stops pumping. Otherwise the smallest leak could cause the pump to keep cycling rapidly and destroy it.SMA SB 3000, old BP panels. -
Re: Well & Pump at a clinic in Haiti
While the rest of the design discussion is useful, question I'm really hoping to get answered today is:KeithWHare wrote: »The question is, how well to the Grundfos control units have to be protected from the weather? Is it safe to mount either of them in a structure that could potentially be left open to the weather?
Keith -
Re: Well & Pump at a clinic in Haiti
Mine are just mounted to the racks that hold my panels, meaning they are exposed in 3 sides to everything and the panels protect one side, so far 4 years and going strong. -
Re: Well & Pump at a clinic in Haiti
Another option for filling the potential second tank on the roof of the potential new building is to pump from the existing tank on the roof of the clinic. Since the potential new building will have it's own PV system, we could use a fairly small surface pump in that building to pull from the main tank on the roof of the clinic. This would allow us to put the Grundfos CU 200 in the utility room and only worry about one float switch.
If you want a better feel for the layout take a look at the following coordinates in Google Earth:- Approximate location of the well: 18°31'0.28"N 72°12'8.99"W
- Water tank on the roof of the clinic: 18°30'59.99"N 72°12'9.36"W
- Approximate Location of the potential new building: 18°31'1.10"N 72°12'10.39"W
The utility room (charge controller, inverter, batteries, etc.) is in the corner of the clinic closest to the well.
I would like to include either a timer or switch controlled by the charge controller (Outback FM60) so that the pump only runs during daylight hours. Anyone have suggestions for that kind of setup?
Keith -
Re: Well & Pump at a clinic in Haiti
Keith, what is the elevational difference between the 2 tanks?
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Re: Well & Pump at a clinic in Haitiwestbranch wrote: »Keith, what is the elevational difference between the 2 tanks?
The roof of the clinic is at least fifteen feet above ground level. The potential new building (which will house a potential batch water filtration system -- there's a lot of potential here, but nothing is set in concrete yet) is not yet designed but I don't expect the roof to be over 10 feet above the ground. The ground in the clinic compound is fairly level, so we could end up with the top of the second water tank level or below the bottom of the first water tank. -
Re: Well & Pump at a clinic in Haiti
Why not just pump the higher tank and gravity feed the lower one from the upper one. Just add a float valve on the lower and a float switch on the upper.KeithWHare wrote: »The roof of the clinic is at least fifteen feet above ground level. The potential new building (which will house a potential batch water filtration system -- there's a lot of potential here, but nothing is set in concrete yet) is not yet designed but I don't expect the roof to be over 10 feet above the ground. The ground in the clinic compound is fairly level, so we could end up with the top of the second water tank level or below the bottom of the first water tank. -
Re: Well & Pump at a clinic in Haitisolar_dave wrote: »Why not just pump the higher tank and gravity feed the lower one from the upper one. Just add a float valve on the lower and a float switch on the upper.
That is a possibility, but it depends on a lot of things that not yet designed. However, the potential building will need its own power, so pump can be worked into its design if gravity is insufficient. I just need to make sure anything we do this summer can be expanded with minimal re-work.
In the mean time, anyone have suggestions for either a timer or switch controlled by the charge controller (Outback FM60) so that the pump only runs during daylight hours?
Keith -
Re: Well & Pump at a clinic in HaitiKeithWHare wrote: »In the mean time, anyone have suggestions for either a timer or switch controlled by the charge controller (Outback FM60) so that the pump only runs during daylight hours?
Keith
The OB has an AUX function that can trigger a relay under programmed conditions such as the charger being in Absorb or Float mode. It would probably be more beneficial to use a Voltage-controlled switch to limit the pump, however. http://www.solar-electric.com/volcon.html -
Re: Well & Pump at a clinic in HaitiKeithWHare wrote: »...In the mean time, anyone have suggestions for either a timer or switch controlled by the charge controller (Outback FM60) so that the pump only runs during daylight hours? Keith
I used a standard intermatic timer (old style with clockwork AC motor, and trip levers) to control the AC to the Contactor Relay for my pump. I do worry if there are a couple of cloudy days, of killing my batteries at noon, with a big pump running with no sun.Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
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Re: Well & Pump at a clinic in Haiti
How does a the Grundfos float switch work? That is, is it possible to set the depth at which the float switch transitions from full to needs filling and back?
Attachment not found.
Thanks
Keith -
Re: Well & Pump at a clinic in Haiti
Generally, that type of float switch works by anchoring the cord to the wall of the tank about a foot or so from the float...
As the water goes down, the cord end rises and the switch turns on. As the tank fills, the cord end is pulled level or down and the switch turns off.
Make sure you have clear room around the switch... If in a small diameter chamber or near an obstruction, the floats can be held underwater (and flood your furnace pit
).
If it is critical that the pump no run continuously (draw down battery bank, overfilled take floods building, etc.), then you should have an alarm (timer on the pump that turns on after 10 minutes, float or other high water level sensor alarm, etc.).
Assume that anything can fail--and what would be the results.
-BillNear San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset -
Re: Well & Pump at a clinic in HaitiGenerally, that type of float switch works by anchoring the cord to the wall of the tank about a foot or so from the float...
As the water goes down, the cord end rises and the switch turns on. As the tank fills, the cord end is pulled level or down and the switch turns off.
Make sure you have clear room around the switch... If in a small diameter chamber or near an obstruction, the floats can be held underwater (and flood your furnace pit).
If it is critical that the pump no run continuously (draw down battery bank, overfilled take floods building, etc.), then you should have an alarm (timer on the pump that turns on after 10 minutes, float or other high water level sensor alarm, etc.).
Assume that anything can fail--and what would be the results
-Bill
See this thread for an example of what can go wrong.....
If you are trying to change the difference in level between turn-on and turn-off, changing the distance to the cord attachment *might* have an effect.SMA SB 3000, old BP panels. -
Re: Well & Pump at a clinic in Haiti
Yet another configuration question...
We have a Grundfos 6 SQF-2 pump and the Grundfos CU200 control unit.
We are currently planning on running the pump off of the inverter, although this pump gives us the option of adding additional pv panels and running off of DC. The inverter (MS4024 sine wave) produces 120 volt AC.
There will be about 300 feet of #10 wire (one way distance) between the controller and the pump.
My current thought is:120 volt -> CU200 -> 300 feet of wire -> pump
I also have a 120-240 volt auto transformer (Outback PSX-240) available, so I could do:120 volt -> Transformer -> 240 volt -> CU200 -> 300 feet of wire -> pump
However, I am concerned that the transformer will add a parasitic load when the pump is not running. Can anyone tell me how much load an idle transformer would add?
Another option would be to put the transformer between the CU200 and the pump:120 volt -> CU200 -> Transformer -> 240 volt ->300 feet of wire -> pump
Does anyone know if adding a transformer would prevent the CU2000 from getting whatever information it gets from the pump?
Keith -
Re: Well & Pump at a clinic in Haiti
We've now installed the Grundfos 6 SQF-2 at the clinic in Haiti.
Overall, the installation went very well, but there was one big surprise. I had been figuring on rolled black pipe, or schedule 80 PVC. We were unable to find either in Port au Prince, so we ended up using 1" galvanized pipe.
13 sections of 19' (5 meters) galvanized pipe.
We were not able to find a well service truck, so we used pipe wrenches and manual labor.
We started off with two large pipe wrenches and two smaller ones. With the pump and seven sections of pipe in the well, it became very clear that we needed more help, which meant we needed more pipe wrenches. So Paul made a trip to a plumbing supply store to purchase two additional large pipe wrenches. That trip took two hours, which is pretty good for a plumbing run in Port au Prince.
The extra pipe wrenches helped but the assembly was pretty heavy by the last section.
Starting the pump and first section
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Adding another section
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Last section and the well seal
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Once we had the pump in place, getting it wired went pretty quickly. We started installing the pump on Monday morning. By 3:10 PM Monday afternoon, we were pumping water!
Water is flowing!
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Getting the pump controller and the float switch wired took a bit longer, but that also came together fairly quickly. The pump starts up very softly and peaks at 470 to 480 watts pumping about 6 gallons per minute. Filling the 480 gallon roof tank took about 80 minutes.
470 watts pumping about 6 gallons per minute
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The inverter (a Magnum MS4024) produces 120 volts, so we used a 120-240volt transformer to increase the voltage on the theory that the higher voltage results in less line loss and so balances out the overhead of the transformer. There was an existing #6 wire from the electrical panel and the corner of the building nearest the well. We used #10 wire between the building and the pump.
There was a ½” empty conduit from the roof into the electrical panel. This made it easy to run the float switch. The wires from the pump controller to the pump run back through the transformer conduit into the electrical panel. This meant we didn’t have to chisel out another chuck of concrete to get into the electrical panel.
The Grundfos 6 SQF-2 is capable of running on either AC (90 to 250 volts) or DC (30 to 300 volts). We used AC at this point, but the pump gives us the option of adding extra PV panels dedicated just to the pump.
We discussed using a mechanical clock timer to control when the pump could run, but decided against it for a couple of reasons. First, it would have made the setup more complicated. Second, if the inverter does hit the low voltage shutoff, the timer would shutoff and so would end up with the wrong time. By setting a reasonable low voltage shutoff, the worst case is the power shuts off until someone turns the inverter back on in the morning. If the power shuts off too frequently, people will learn to conserve.
Water flowing into the roof tank and the float switch
Attachment not found.
Once we got the roof tank filled, it was a simple matter of working with the plumber to track down leaks. We went through 750 to 1000 gallons before finding all of the leaks, but by the end of the week we had things in pretty good shape.
We added several gallons of bleach to the well early on, but since I know of a couple of other wells relatively close by that are open, I was not willing to drink the water. There is a group going down in October that will run tests on the water and look at the possibility of adding an UV purification system, probably in a separate building with a separate power source. Having water at the clinic is a big help as previously they were hauling water from about a mile away.
A local mason did a nice job of building an enclosure around the well head. A locking cover is in the works. We also installed a water meter so we can track how much water we are actually using. -
Re: Well & Pump at a clinic in Haiti
I have to say I'm happy to read this conclusion!
Those of us who live in the lands of modern amenities all too often forget that much of the world does not enjoy such seemingly simple things as running water.
Success stories are always welcome here.
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Re: Well & Pump at a clinic in HaitiCariboocoot wrote: »I have to say I'm happy to read this conclusion!
Those of us who live in the lands of modern amenities all too often forget that much of the world does not enjoy such seemingly simple things as running water.
Success stories are always welcome here.
I'm relieved to be able to write about a success. It still scares me a bit to look at the pictures and think that we installed a pump 250 feet deep on galvanized pipe with pipe wrenches.
I was also relieved when all of our luggage showed up. I'd purchased the Grundfos pump and controller from our host, NAWS. We wrapped the pump in one leg each of two pair of old blue jeans. The duct tape we started with was replaced with TSA packaging tape, but it made the trip with no problem.
And to top it off, when we put it together, it actually pumped water! Obsessing on the details before hand, and reading everything I could find on this forum and in the Grundfos documentation paid off.
From watching the information the MagTap is posting to the Magnum web site, it looks like we are pumping every other day or so.
I was pleased with how the pump and controller worked. The power usage and gallons per minute I was estimating from looking at the Grundfos documentation were pretty accurate.
One of the fun things about a project like this is working with local people. There is no way we would have gotten the pump installed without a lot of help.
Keith -
Re: Well & Pump at a clinic in HaitiKeithWHare wrote: »We discussed using a mechanical clock timer to control when the pump could run, but decided against it for a couple of reasons. First, it would have made the setup more complicated. Second, if the inverter does hit the low voltage shutoff, the timer would shutoff and so would end up with the wrong time. By setting a reasonable low voltage shutoff, the worst case is the power shuts off until someone turns the inverter back on in the morning. If the power shuts off too frequently, people will learn to conserve.
I've also thought of how to shut things off when the sun goes down and I've wanted to use a normally open relay powered off the leads from the solar panels (before the charge controller). So when the sun goes down the relay opens and nothing happens till the sun comes up again! -
Re: Well & Pump at a clinic in Haiti
That is awesome!!! Thank you so much for sharing this story with us. I must admit it brought a smile to my face to know that some people still care in this world.:D It also made me happy to know that these people that have been through so much will have clean water, something that even I have become spoiled to. Anyways thank you again and God Bless you.
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