completely new, starting with fan

ukoa · July 2012

Hey everyone,
this is my first time here. Looks like an awesome forum!
I'm looking to start going solar but I want to start small.

I want to just run a fan for right now and see how it goes. I would like the system to be upgradable for future addons. (and when I have more money)
Maybe I can also charge a few gadgets for now. Just get a few small things off the grid.

I've tried looking around to see how to get started but it's all a little overwhelming right now.
Any suggestions would be great.
Thanks!

-Scott

waynefromnscanada · July 2012

Re: completely new, starting with fan

Hi Scott! Welcome to the form.
What you plan on doing is very familiar to me, that is starting out small and expanding. Only difference is my first objective was running a light and radio. Of course I quickly became addicted and my system grew to the point where for all intents and purposes, I'm living off grid. It's an amazing feeling to be producing you're own power.
Now comes the "however".
However, had I known in the beginning, the size to which my system would grow, a couple of things would have been done differently!
1) If I had known the overall cost and had to pay it all up front in one lump sum, it would likely never have happened.
2) If I had known the final (at least for now) size the system has grown to, I could have saved huge a amount of money by purchasing only what I would need for that final system, rather than buying numerous inverters, controllers etc, etc to match my growing system, over and over again.
3) Had I known back then what I know now, I would have gone with a 24 volt system instead of financially painting myself into a 12 volt corner.
By the way, what is the power draw on you're proposed fan, and how many hours do you expect to be running it each 24 hour day? Reason we're asking is that some fans are pretty heavy when it comes to power consumption, requiring more than a relatively small system can properly provide.
Wishing you the very best of luck with you're project.

Wayne

ukoa · July 2012

Re: completely new, starting with fan

Thanks Wayne!
You pretty much nailed it. Back when I was married my wife was moving a few things into our apartment. She mentioned that her goldfish had died and wanted to get another one. I said we should get something better than that little bowl.
Two years later we had a 90 gallon salt water tank.... (no, I don't still have the tank.)
That's why I mentioned I want this setup to be upgradable. I know I'm going to get hooked. I've wanted to try this for years.

So, it's a 120 volt fan that I run by the couch for a few hours when I get out of work.
If the system were good enough, I do sleep with a fan on at night but it sounds like that may not be possible for quite a while.

From your post it sounds like I should get a 24 volt system. Honestly I have no idea about any of that stuff right now.
Like I said I would like to maybe charge a few gadgets as well. I know I could just go to Walmart and buy one of those solar charges but I want a real system that I can add onto throughout the years.

Where should I start? I have about $300 set aside right now. Not much by any means but maybe it can get a starter system?
What else can I run?

Thanks!

niel · July 2012

Re: completely new, starting with fan

welcome to the forum,
as wayne has indicated here you need to know the power draw and for how long to even consider a basic non-expandable system (expandable will cost even more) that most likely would far exceed the amount you've already saved. you need to get a plan in place of where you want to start and where you want to finish to avoid the repurchasing of some items. expansions don't always work out without replacing items depending on circumstances.

enough on my generalities here as your plan needs to start with the power you will need to use and you can determine that with a meter like the killawatt.
http://www.solar-electric.com/kiacpomome.html
this meter will actually measure the power consumed over time in kwh. you will also need to note the time period you have made the measurement and should be at least for 24hrs. from this info we can roughly determine a battery capacity needed to run an inverter to power your fan. (preferably pure sine wave) now this is a point that needs the expansion fudge factors as well so while you continue to save your $ you can buy the meter. (some stores like radio shack and home depot are carrying it or you can obtain it here through naws' online store)

ukoa · July 2012

Re: completely new, starting with fan

I can see why most people don't use solar power. It seems pretty expensive for little results.
I actually have one those Killawatt things around here somewhere.

I'll have to venture into the junk closet and try to find it.

BB. · July 2012

Re: completely new, starting with fan

Very roughly, you pay around $0.10 to $0.20 per kWH for grid power in the US... For full off grid solar PV (panels+batteries+inverter), you end up paying around $1-$2+ per kWHr.

So, we usually start by suggesting measuring your loads and working on conservation first. Almost always a better investment vs buying solar.

With the current cost of solar panels + Grid Tied inverters, and that many utilities support grid tied solar and Net Metered billing (no batteries, special inverter that connects solar panels to your home's main electrical panel, and can turn the meter backwards during the day to "save/bank" power for use at night/during winter)--Grid Tied Solar can save you money (reasonably sunny region and expensive power such as in California which can exceed $0.30 to $0.50 per kWH if you have Air Conditioning and/or electric heat).

Anyway, here is a thread that has lots of information about solar and conservation projects:

Working Thread for Solar Beginner Post/FAQ

And some information on building a small off grid capable solar PV system:

BB. wrote: »

Add this link to our Solar Beginner Post:

Emergency Power

Basically a very long thread that starts from the beginning with a few vague requirements through design and assembly for a "portable" solar RE off-grid power box.

And here is another example by Mike90045 called the Solar Monolith:

Update pictures/information here.

-Bill

Eric L · July 2012

Re: completely new, starting with fan

I can see why most people don't use solar power. It seems pretty expensive for little results.

If you have reliable grid power, the main reason for building an off-grid system should be for your own satisfaction. A secondary reason can be for back-up power. Saving money should not be a reason at all; it won't likely ever happen (I'm talking off-grid here, not grid-tied).

That said, I started with a little hobby system like you're considering about seven years ago. A few years later I built a second, larger hobby system and, like wayne above, now power most of my house from my third, fairly large off-grid system. I've had a lot of fun with all of them and am happy I did it, but going slowly and learning how to do it all myself was crucial both from a cost savings and from an enjoyment perspective.

The Harbor Freight solar kits, like this one I've seen advertised for under $150 at times, although right now it's a bit more. These don't include a battery, so you'd have to factor-in another $60 or so for one like this. Also, I'm not sure how the charge controller in those kits would last, going by the reviews online; perhaps it would need replacement in time with something like this. This set up should power a small, 12-volt fan for a few hours per day (depending on amount of sun).

This wouldn't be very expandable, but like niel said making a real expandable system would cost a lot more. This would be under $300 with battery, and would at least give you a taste of what you can do and whether you'd like it.

BB. · July 2012

Re: completely new, starting with fan

And the Harbor Freight panels are nothing to write home about... I would plan on only using them for 1-2 years. (they may last 10 years at best).

"Real" glass panels with crystalline solar cells will output about 2x the power as the same size 60 watt harbor freight panels. And should last 20+ years.

-Bill

Cariboocoot · July 2012

Re: completely new, starting with fan

A couple of years ago we had a really, really hot Summer here. I dug out the old 600 Watt Statpower MSW inverter and 12 Volt battery just to run a fan all night to keep air moving through the bedroom while we slept. During the day I recharged it by using a battery charger - run from the Outback VFX3524 and 700 Watts of panel.

Never throw anything away; you might need that first experimental solar power system someday! I'm still stripping parts out of the Alpha inverter from time to time.

ukoa · July 2012

Re: completely new, starting with fan

This is awesome! Thanks for the links as well!
I have a much better idea of what I need to do.
I have a lot more reading to do. Thanks for the info! :-)

westbranch · July 2012

Re: completely new, starting with fan

look at this 12 v fan, very low draw ...http://www.fantasticvent.com/products/endless_breeze/endless_breeze.html... no need for an inverter either.

Photowhit · July 2012

Re: completely new, starting with fan

westbranch wrote: »

look at this 12 v fan, very low draw ...http://www.fantasticvent.com/products/endless_breeze/endless_breeze.html... no need for an inverter either.

"West" beat me to it, though I'd suggest an O2cool fan, available at Walmart or Amazon for around $20, draws @12 watts, I think, moves a lot of air for a 10" fan. You could 'play' get some use and not spend a ton of money.A small 34 amp AGM battery or 20 amp SLA battery from a battery shop A small Morning star or ASC charge controller and a 40-100watt panel and your in business. Likely a total loss on expansion...

PNjunction · July 2012

Re: completely new, starting with fan

I run some small fans - typically oscillating mobile dc trucker fans, or an "O2 Cool" 10-inch fan. Both run about 6 watts (.5 amps @ 12v) each. The O2 can also be run from batteries. Cheap fans for sure, but fun.

Since I don't want to drag the battery beyond 50% DOD, with my 5ah sealed agm battery, I can go about 5 hours with one fan running. If I wanted say about 8 hours, I'd up that to a 10ah battery. Then using a 20 watt panel to charge the 10ah AGM battery. Or a 15 watt leftover harbor freight panel charging my 5ah agm. Using a morningstar SunGuard 4.5a charge controller. I also use this setup for charging my cellphone - just attached a female cigarette lighter adapter to the battery and a 12v/5v stepdown mobile usb port.

Small but fun projects - I get a kick out of measuring the SOC of the batteries.

completely new, starting with fan

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