Long Lines...

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pabloesguapo
pabloesguapo Solar Expert Posts: 116 ✭✭
in Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems #1
Finally was able to get down to the property and see where the well has been dug in relation to the proposed location of the house. 130 ft. away.

So, what's better/worse? A long run from the bottom of the well to the water/solar shed? Or a long run between shed and house?
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  • pabloesguapo
    pabloesguapo Solar Expert Posts: 116 ✭✭
    #2
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    Re: Long Lines...

    FYI:
    total depth: 175'
    Static depth: 53'
    Gpm: 50+
    27 Kyocera panels, 6,500w
    24 CG2 6v batteries, 48v, 630Ah
    Midnite Classic 150 & Classic 150 Lite in "follow me" mode
    (2) Outback fx3648 inverters
    Generac ecogen 6kw backup generator
    Mate3s
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #3
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    Re: Long Lines...

    Water lines or electric?
    That sort of well will have a submersible pump, so the distance won't be a problem for the pump (if it's the right size).
    If electric lines, it's a matter what Voltage you're working with.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,439 admin
    #4
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    Re: Long Lines...

    Also, are you looking for 50 gpm or something a lot slower ("slow" pumping into cistern or similar).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
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    Re: Long Lines...

    Refering back to your other post. I think I must have you confused a bit. Your well is as close to your house as my neighbors. Think you understand it some. Put grundfus pump in well, connect to pitless adapter, put short piece of plastic pipe on adapter end outside well, connect T fitting to that plastic pipe, connect plastic pipe and run to house pressure tank. Have pressure switch connected to pressure storage tank. Run electric line for well from that pressure switch back to well buryed with the pipe. Bring were up to top of well casing and run wire back down pipe to pump in well. Get one of those fire hydrants that I told you about and connect to that previously mentioned. That handle on it isn,t a pump, You pull up on it to turn on valve and close it back up to shut off the valve, It is designed so it won,t freeze up in cold weather. The valve part is under the ground and drains out the water when you shut off the valve so it won,t freeze. You could run a hose into your big storage tank for irigation and fire protection service. What I meant about having 2 storage pressure tanks or one big one was to save your pump from cycling as much. ! big pressure tank is probably just fine. In my personal case I have a crawl space basement and don,t have enough hight for as large a tank as I would like to have. Hope this will clarify what I was trying to explain previously. Your distances are just fine. Someone here that knows more about the grundfos pumps can probably help you chose the right pump on whether you want a 5 gal minute pump or a 10 gal minute pump. :Dsolarvic:D
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  • pabloesguapo
    pabloesguapo Solar Expert Posts: 116 ✭✭
    #6
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    Re: Long Lines...

    I figure a longer water line is better than a longer electric line to the house... voltage drop and all.

    vic... how is thewater at the hydrant pressurized?
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  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    #7
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    Re: Long Lines...

    Your in well submersable pump will presurize the hydrant. Why you put the Tee in the line from pitless adapter. Very simple when you think of it. If you use a 240 volt pump you won,t have much voltage drop for a grunfos pump. Before I got my new doublewide a few years ago I had to move my old trailer about 250 ft from the well so I could get basement built and has temporary wire on top of ground so I could have tempory water. So with about 300 ft of wire my 230 volt 3/4 hp pump run fine. You basicaly use the firehydrant as an outside valve to put a hose on to do anything outside like wash car, spray the garden or fill the big storage tank in your solar shed. Don,t know your plans for the big storage tank, but if you use water directly from the well it will be fresher and won,t have the problems that come from using water from the big tank you will have in the shed. Only use that water for fire fighting and irigation purposes. :Dsolarvic:D
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  • tmarch
    tmarch Solar Expert Posts: 143 ✭✭
    #8
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    Re: Long Lines...

    Here is my current setup in order, works well, in order.
    well 300 feet deep, 200 feet static water level.
    10 gpm 240 pump
    pitless adapter and pressure tank at well
    cistern on a T fitting with float to shut input off when it's full, this also feeds my water tanks for livestock so the water doesn't just sit for extended time. A one way valve could keep this from from draining to the house if necessary.
    house and then 2 hydrants
    ALL are pressured by the same pressure tank
    pump has a pressure switch on it so it shuts off when the pressure exceeds 40 lbs and kicks on at 25 pounds
    This way I have storage and pressure on the same system
    a hydrant is NOT very productive without pressure.
    now the downside, if you open a hydrant it will affect the house pressure to a degree
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #9
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    Re: Long Lines...

    Just a quick nit - re the "fire hydrant" it's a Field Hydrant, or Frost Proof Hydrant. The handle on the top operates a self-draining valve underground, preventing it from freezing in the field. Not for drinking water. I've only seen them up to 3/4" pipe & 6' deep.
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  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    #10
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    Re: Long Lines...

    They make the hydrants up to 1 1/4 inch. I have heard them called fire hydrants, frost free hydrants and freeze proff hydrants. why :D can,t you drink water from then? Most any state park in Pa. has them and people drink water from them all the time. A lot of cemstary,s have them so people can water thier flowers. Maybe it is a california thing but people in Pa. have a few more freedoms to do what they want. :Dsolarvic:D Realy not critizing you but people in different parts of the country have different names for things. Here we call a bottle of coke POP, Down South they call it SODA. I ask for a bottle of POP in North Carolina and they didn.t know what I wanted. Since my brother lived there He told the guy I wanted a soda.
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #11
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    Re: Long Lines...

    You can't drink water from them because you can't be charged $3 per litre if you do. :p

    Honestly; we used to have free water fountains all over the place, but they all seem to have vanished. Allegedly due to health concerns, not economics. Consider the facts and form your own opinion.

    In my experience the frost-free valves were called "yard hydrants". By any other name, they still work the same.
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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #12
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    Re: Long Lines...
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    You can't drink water from them because you can't be charged $3 per litre if you do. :p

    Honestly; we used to have free water fountains all over the place, but they all seem to have vanished. Allegedly due to health concerns, not economics. Consider the facts and form your own opinion.

    In my experience the frost-free valves were called "yard hydrants". By any other name, they still work the same.

    The yard hydrants sold in my area are not for potable water because they use galvanized steel, lead, and or other toxic metals, or non-food grade plastics. It is possible to find one for potable water, though.
    --vtMaps
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #13
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    Re: Long Lines...
    vtmaps wrote: »
    The yard hydrants sold in my area are not for potable water because they use galvanized steel, lead, and or other toxic metals, or non-food grade plastics. It is possible to find one for potable water, though.
    --vtMaps

    Yes indeed; mustn't use lead-solder on copper pipes, even though we did for years. Galvanized steel was standard-issue piping too, especially on farms (and is still used in water systems around the world). Heck, solid lead pipes were used for centuries, starting with the Romans (the word "plumbing" coming from "plumbum" the Latin word for lead).

    How did we survive all those centuries without bureaucrats to save us from ourselves?

    Okay; getting down off the soap box before I have to ban myself. :p
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  • tmarch
    tmarch Solar Expert Posts: 143 ✭✭
    #14
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    Re: Long Lines...

    Heck did anyone acciddently drink from a swimming pool.
    Most wells in my area use galvanized pipe so we are all gonna die.
    Just remember to drink upstream from the herd.
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  • Ralph Day
    Ralph Day Solar Expert Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭✭
    #15
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    Re: Long Lines...

    "Just remember to drink upstream from the herd. "

    Yours, or the neighbour's herd further upstream?

    Ralph
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  • pabloesguapo
    pabloesguapo Solar Expert Posts: 116 ✭✭
    #16
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    Re: Long Lines...

    going to use pex, pvc and a few brass fittings and valves. Brass has lead in it and all that plastic I'm sure isn't good for us.

    But I suppose dehydration is a more immediate ailment to address.
    27 Kyocera panels, 6,500w
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    Midnite Classic 150 & Classic 150 Lite in "follow me" mode
    (2) Outback fx3648 inverters
    Generac ecogen 6kw backup generator
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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #17
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    Re: Long Lines...

    remember Life is about calculated risks, and most of us survived not being put into a 'car seat' etc, etc.... just minimize the risks where you can measured against the utility of using something, say brass.

    HTH
     
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  • aglicknmex
    aglicknmex Solar Expert Posts: 40 ✭✭✭
    #18
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    Re: Long Lines...

    Quality of water is something to consider when choosing piping . Pex and brass should withstand almost any mineral contaminated water. Galvanized can go south in a bad well sooner than you might think. Sched 80 PVC works great for the riser pipe in well.
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  • Ralph Day
    Ralph Day Solar Expert Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭✭
    #19
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    Re: Long Lines...

    ag... ;your avatar, is that steam cleaning of panels you're doing? I'd worry about thermal shock to the panels myself.

    Ralph
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  • aglicknmex
    aglicknmex Solar Expert Posts: 40 ✭✭✭
    #20
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    Re: Long Lines...

    Yes, live steam, and I was worried too!! It was really cold that morning, and I had just installed the panels. I belatedly realized that the last 6 inches of water in the input line to the panels had not drained. Froze where it came out of the ground. When the water broke thru it was about 10 am and we had quite a rodeo!!! I put the photo in because it shows one of the hidden problems of a draindown system of ANY kind. If the grid goes down and decides to come on at after the sun has heated the panels, you will be dealing with this kind of situation.

    A 180 degree temp cutout sensor and pressure relief on the panels, eliminates damage and re-occurrence we would like to think, but it is still a potential problem.

    What actually happens is not am explosion, but a very slow entrance of water into the panels. The pressure build up keeps the pump from shoving a lot of water in, and a few dribbles get in and turn to steam. Hence the whole show goes on for 15 minutes or so until the panels eventually cool down. It would be better of course to turn the pump off and wait for another day, but one doesn't always think about the right answer in the middle of things.
    It is quite a heart throbbing experience to say the least!! What amazed me was how long we had live steam!!
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