pump for deep well

BoFuller · February 2012

I am looking to have a well drilled on our property and I expect it is going to be 500-600 feet deep. We are totally off-grid and have no solar there yet. No house yet either. Cabin construction is to begin this Spring. Can a solar pump bring up water from that depth? And if it can, should I factor that into my total usage while planning my solar system for the cabin, or have a separate system just for the pump? I have a 2500 gal tank that will feed the cabin, so the pump only has to fill the tank at a leisurely rate.

I have no problem running a generator on occasion to fill the tanks, but I want to be prepared for the possibility of not being able to get gas. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks, Bo

stephendv · February 2012

Re: pump for deep well

Yes you can do that with solar. I think a combined system is better than 2 systems because you can then choose how to distribute the power. E.g. in bad weather you can have all the PV power going to the house and batteries, and leave the pump off until you need it - hopefully when the sun comes out. With 2 distinct systems you could be wasting the power from the pump array when you really need it for the house.

For a combined system you have some options:
1. Install an inverter system that's capable of delivering the start surge of a single phase pump (about 3x rated power)
2. Install a grundfos SQ single phase pump which has much lower start surge
3. Install any 3 phase pump and use a variable frequency drive (VFD) to run it
There's probably a 4. too...

TnAndy · February 2012

Re: pump for deep well

I read the original post 3 times, and dang if I see anything about cattle........

Anyway, since you have that 2500gal tank planned, get a Grundfos SQ series pump, and put the recommended amount of PV with it to deliver the rate of fill for the tank you want, and keep it simple.

You might want to also consider roof water collection, even if just a backup. I have a buddy with an off grid cabin, also a 2500gal tank, and that's his ONLY source....no well at all. But we get about 45 inches of annual rain here, so where you are has to play into that decision as well.

Vic · February 2012

Re: pump for deep well

I agree with TnAnyd, about collecting water. Almost posted that very thing earlier.
Realize that you will prob not have a roof from which to collect water until later, BUT, one usually needs much less power to move collected water around., than pumping it from any depth.

At my off-grid locations, use only collected water, and quite a lot of storage -- above ground poly tanks. Really have too much storage, @ 17.5 K gallons. WIth no irrigation, and no lovestock that collected quantity will ride a few years. Will admit, that I still do not treat and drink that water, but it is used for everything else.

Good Luck, Vic

TnAndy · February 2012

Re: pump for deep well

We have 3,000gal of storage ( two 1500gal poly tanks ), but I have the advantage of gravity.....the spring is high enough on the mountain (barely) to keep the tanks full, and the tank storage building ( you don't want poly tanks out in the sun....they "culture" things....ahahahaa) has enough elevation to pressure feed the house.

I have a 20 micron filter, followed by a 5, followed by a UV sterilizer light for the house water.

vtmaps · February 2012

Re: pump for deep well

Before I could give you an opinion about which pump (or pumps) you need... Do you have freezing temperatures? Can the tank be located to give you gravity feed to cabin?
Lightning is always a consideration when you have well pumps and conductors running all over the landscape... will your well also serve as the ground electrode for your cabin? Where will your PV panels be located and grounded? If your well is distant from the cabin and has its own dedicated PV panels (which is a good thing IMO) be careful of running any control or monitoring wires between the cabin and the well or storage tank... if those wires are connected to one electrical system, they shouldn't even be in close proximity to wires or devices of the other electrical system.
--vtMaps

Vic · February 2012

Re: pump for deep well

TnA..

Well my Poly tanks are very dark, but not quite opaque. But, if one works to exclude organic material from entering the tanks, an ititial treatment with chlorine bleach seems to keep the water clear for some years, with detectable residual chlorine.

Am not the expert on H20 treatment, but keeping the crud out of tanks initially sure gives one a good head start. Would love to have a spring, but none right here. Vic

BoFuller · February 2012

Re: pump for deep well

TnAndy wrote: »

I read the original post 3 times, and dang if I see anything about cattle........

Anyway, since you have that 2500gal tank planned, get a Grundfos SQ series pump, and put the recommended amount of PV with it to deliver the rate of fill for the tank you want, and keep it simple.

You might want to also consider roof water collection, even if just a backup. I have a buddy with an off grid cabin, also a 2500gal tank, and that's his ONLY source....no well at all. But we get about 45 inches of annual rain here, so where you are has to play into that decision as well.

The comment about cattle - sorry I don't get it. We have no livestock. We will definitely build for rain runoff but that doesn't give you that much in Northern AZ. About 13 inches per year, and that is usually 6-7 inches in Jan/Feb and 6-7 inches in July/Aug. Not enough to live on with irrigating 3 green houses. I expect that eventually we will have three (or more) 2500 gallon tanks, but we have one for now. As mentioned, I plan to build 2 or 3 green houses. The plan is to be self-sufficient for ourselves and any family members who come when that time arrives. If you have to ask "what time"? then nevermind.
The current tank sits a little bit uphill from the cabin site but not much. We will need a pump and pressure tank in the cabin/log home (30 X 30 with two stories, with bath up and down). I'm not sure where the well will be at this point. My wife wants to call in a witcher. I'm really skeptical about that but we'll give it a try.
Yes in the winter it gets down to the teens at night for 3 or 4 months. We are at 6200 feet. The 2500 gal tank sits about 2-3 feet in the ground and this keeps it from freezing. Currently there is a community well about 10 miles away but requires a 10K generator to run the pump. That's what we are currently doing to fill the tank, via a 500 gal water trailer. But we want to get self-sufficient; meaning capable of no generator and no community well.
I can see the advantages to having a separate solar system and to the idea of combining. More input will be helpful.
Thanks for the ideas so far. Keep 'em coming!

BoFuller · February 2012

Re: pump for deep well

Vic wrote: »

TnA..

Well my Poly tanks are very dark, but not quite opaque. But, if one works to exclude organic material from entering the tanks, an ititial treatment with chlorine bleach seems to keep the water clear for some years, with detectable residual chlorine.

Am not the expert on H20 treatment, but keeping the crud out of tanks initially sure gives one a good head start. Would love to have a spring, but none right here. Vic

Our tank is opaque and in the shade. We put about a cup of bleach in for the 2500 gallons. The neighbors all say that it will stay fine for years if necessary. Right now we are not using much as we just go up every other weekend and stay in the trailer. We hope to start on the foundation for the log home this Spring.

BoFuller · February 2012

Re: pump for deep well

vtmaps wrote: »

Before I could give you an opinion about which pump (or pumps) you need... Do you have freezing temperatures? Can the tank be located to give you gravity feed to cabin?
Lightning is always a consideration when you have well pumps and conductors running all over the landscape... will your well also serve as the ground electrode for your cabin? Where will your PV panels be located and grounded? If your well is distant from the cabin and has its own dedicated PV panels (which is a good thing IMO) be careful of running any control or monitoring wires between the cabin and the well or storage tank... if those wires are connected to one electrical system, they shouldn't even be in close proximity to wires or devices of the other electrical system.
--vtMaps

The pump only needs to replenish the big tanks. I will have a separate pump and pressure tank in the cabin.
As far as the grounding electrode? I have no idea - that is beyond my experience, but I will consult with my electrician friend to see if that is a viable option or not. I never would have thought of it.
There are trees everywhere. Not real tall - 20 to 40 foot pinion pine and juniper.
I suppose the distance of the well from the home site will be a determine factor. I assume that if it is a considerable distance then a separate system might be best.

vtmaps · February 2012

Re: pump for deep well

BoFuller wrote: »

As far as the grounding electrode? <snip> I suppose the distance of the well from the home site will be a determine factor. I assume that if it is a considerable distance then a separate system might be best.

You didn't mention how far your tank is from the cabin. If you go with separate electrical systems, I would suggest that your well be located right next to the tank (especially if you have good solar exposure there). If your well and panels are right next to each other and you use the well as your grounding electrode for the whole (separate) system, you will minimize the chance of lightning damage to your pump.
--vtMaps

mike95490 · February 2012

Re: pump for deep well

I chose to go with a small, conventional 240VAC 1/2 hp pump, that anyone can afford, on a timer, and let it run several hours a day, to pump water 160' up from a rainwater pond, to 4, 3,000 gal tanks, that gravity feed back to the rest of the property. Drinking water is via a slow sand filter20' below the main tanks, into a 1500 gal tank. That stays fresh with an ozoneator till it's used.
It does take a beefy inverter to start it, but I needed one anyways to power a house. in the meanwhile, it rund the welder just fine too.

BoFuller · February 2012

Re: pump for deep well

vtmaps wrote: »

You didn't mention how far your tank is from the cabin. If you go with separate electrical systems, I would suggest that your well be located right next to the tank (especially if you have good solar exposure there). If your well and panels are right next to each other and you use the well as your grounding electrode for the whole (separate) system, you will minimize the chance of lightning damage to your pump.
--vtMaps

Probably 80 feet from tank to Cabin.

pump for deep well

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