Generic Upgrade

Thomas
Thomas Solar Expert Posts: 291 ✭
in Grid Tie and Grid Interactive Systems #1
I do plan on upgrading to socio acceptability , the next window of opprutunity is at around $1500.00 for 1500 watts, I cant see spending a thousand for a thousand(sunny boy)I would still go generically, some entrepreneurs in Califo:cool:rnia I have seen on E-bay and google.....
Always troubleshoot with adequate sunlight.  Hi Ho Hi Ho
2.3kW [10] Enecsys SMI-240-60 micro inverters

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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: Generic Upgrade

    Social Acceptability is also following building code, not electrocuting power line tech's, and not burning your house down with overloaded wires, which the latter can easily happen with "plug-in" inverters.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • Thomas
    Thomas Solar Expert Posts: 291 ✭
    #3
    Re: Generic Upgrade

    I just bought this mobile home a few years ago and re-wired the intire thing with 10AWG instaed of 12AWG, new box etc, new outlets, all outside of wall and in PVC lines etc. every line from my box is independantly grounded at the box and at the end of the run, REBAR. then i installed the current event..
    Always troubleshoot with adequate sunlight.  Hi Ho Hi Ho
    2.3kW [10] Enecsys SMI-240-60 micro inverters

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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #4
    Re: Generic Upgrade

    Just an FYI, proper wiring method is that the entire service be grounded at a single point. Grounding services at multiple points is a recipe for lots of problems, and indeed presents a significant hazard.

    I also don't think that rebar is considered a proper ground rod. From my experince, ground rod need to be galvanized or copper clad.

    When in doubt, consult the NEC.

    Tony
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  • Thomas
    Thomas Solar Expert Posts: 291 ✭
    #5
    Re: Generic Upgrade

    There is rebar at the base of the power pole for its ground before THE METER.
    There is single safety ground just one more at the end of the line from the fuse/breaker box.
    directly under the last recepticle on each line out of the box, I attached a secondary safety grnd. a short piece of copper wire to a 2' rebar into the ground. the middle pin in the plugs is connected to the earth 2X the hot ones ....
    Always troubleshoot with adequate sunlight.  Hi Ho Hi Ho
    2.3kW [10] Enecsys SMI-240-60 micro inverters

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  • Thomas
    Thomas Solar Expert Posts: 291 ✭
    #6
    Re: Generic Upgrade

    It has been over a year now and no major event, the worse thing that happened with electricity was when I replaced my Hot Water elements, I also had to replace my Torx timer! those GE smartwater things can be tricky. My appliances are quieter, except for the frig, it still cycles loudly reguardless of ground availability
    Always troubleshoot with adequate sunlight.  Hi Ho Hi Ho
    2.3kW [10] Enecsys SMI-240-60 micro inverters

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  • Windsun
    Windsun Solar Expert Posts: 1,164 ✭✭
    #7
    Re: Generic Upgrade
    1999 National Electrical Code (NEC)
    reference:
    250-24-5: Requires that no grounding connection be
    made to any neutral downstream from the main neutral-ground bonding point (this
    would put some of the return load current on the
    ground).

    250-30 Grounding separately derived
    Alternating-Current Systems
    (3) Grounding Electrode. The grounding
    electrode shall be as near as practical to and preferably in the same area as
    the grounding conductor connection to the system. The grounding electrode shall
    be the nearest one of the following:
    (a) An effectively grounded structural
    metal member of the structure.
    (b) An effectively grounded metal water pipe
    within 5ft. (1.52m) from the point of entrance into the building.
    (c) Other
    electrodes as specified in sections 250-50 and 250-52 (ex. grounding rods) where
    electrodes specified by (a) or (b) above are not available.

    A 2' rebar is not considered a good or legal ground. The minimum is 6' in the ground, and 8' is recommended. Most codes also require a single point ground, which your system does not do.
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #8
    Re: Generic Upgrade
    Thomas wrote: »
    It has been over a year now and no major event, the worse thing that happened with electricity was when I replaced my Hot Water elements, I also had to replace my Torx timer! those GE smartwater things can be tricky. My appliances are quieter, except for the frig, it still cycles loudly reguardless of ground availability


    Just because it "works" doesn't mean it is safe. Issues of lightning strikes, voltage spikes from the utility etc can have a dramatic effect on improper grounds. (not to mention issues with ground "looping", ground faults etc)

    (thanks Windsun for the NEC citation, my only copy is very old!)

    Tony
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  • Thomas
    Thomas Solar Expert Posts: 291 ✭
    #9
    Re: Generic Upgrade

    It does single point ground at the entry to my home. It also grounds at the end points. There is ABSOLUTELY NO CONNECTION TO THE NEGATIVE IN MY GROUNDING AT ALL, I am disconnected from the FU...UP Grid Ground!
    MY pv array is grounded as well as my batteries. A 10'sheilded coller insulated ground diode grounds my batteries and inverter. I have had probs adding the pv array to that after chargeing so I disconnected them and gave them their own independant ground, SEPARATE FROM THE POLES SAFETY GROUND. All is now going smoothly. My 12 volt panels/battery/inverter are the only circuits that the neg return is grounded. the 110 grid is not and my inverted is not.only safety grnd.
    once or twice the neg grounds connected itn the water table or something with my battery and panels and air-x, a little confusion, so I changes the size and depth of the panel ground now they do not connect in the rain, also there was a small short to the body of the air-x at the time. Again, the battery/inverter/panels are the only circuit neg. grounded.
    all 110 is straight/X2
    Always troubleshoot with adequate sunlight.  Hi Ho Hi Ho
    2.3kW [10] Enecsys SMI-240-60 micro inverters

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  • Windsun
    Windsun Solar Expert Posts: 1,164 ✭✭
    #10
    Re: Generic Upgrade

    A diode in the ground???
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #11
    Re: Generic Upgrade

    It sounds like much of your trouble I s stemming from an incomplete understanding of grounds,, especially when yre mixing AC and DC grounding issues. Me thinks you may be a bit over your head.

    T
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  • Thomas
    Thomas Solar Expert Posts: 291 ✭
    #12
    Re: Generic Upgrade

    I have heard it called a 'ground diode' when used in such a fashion, the only connectivity to it is the battery andinverter, oh the most important part, I also have a rebar in sealed pvc not in the ground forked from the battery/grd diode with a small 1a shunt there at the juncture. I read something about avaiability of fresh elecrtons for charging/running things. The shunt is about maknig a small difference in the gnd circiut to make a variable consistant different resiastanse to the grounds, it all is 8AWG and I am going to change it to 12AWG soon, trainings allmost over. There used to be a groung controll reg.device where I have the shunt....(in ideal ciucuit diagrams)
    Always troubleshoot with adequate sunlight.  Hi Ho Hi Ho
    2.3kW [10] Enecsys SMI-240-60 micro inverters

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  • Thomas
    Thomas Solar Expert Posts: 291 ✭
    #13
    Re: Generic Upgrade

    icarius, no not really, what I lack in understanding I compensate for with caution, really. Ther IS NO MIX between the two systems at all the only connection is the grid tie inverter. and those 2- 8awg wires I mentionrd before. other than that the systems do not connect or contact at all. Admittedly I do not understand as much as I should, but haven't really taken any risks either.
    Always troubleshoot with adequate sunlight.  Hi Ho Hi Ho
    2.3kW [10] Enecsys SMI-240-60 micro inverters

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  • Thomas
    Thomas Solar Expert Posts: 291 ✭
    #14
    Re: Generic Upgrade

    YES I am mixing grounding ISSUES. That confusion You all should take credit for! If I sorted it out goodly or not i dunno
    Always troubleshoot with adequate sunlight.  Hi Ho Hi Ho
    2.3kW [10] Enecsys SMI-240-60 micro inverters

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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #15
    Re: Generic Upgrade

    I'm sorry, but if you " lack understnding" it is he'd to know if you are taking risks or not, or know if your "caution" is real or not.

    (your post #12 is making less and less sense)
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  • Thomas
    Thomas Solar Expert Posts: 291 ✭
    #16
    Re: Generic Upgrade

    No mistakes/fires and 100% wiring replacement, and the same record with the 12 volt stuff. Reality what a concept. I gotta take the blow at the GE Smartwater though I messed up. How do I find my #12 post?what number is this one and do replyies count?
    Always troubleshoot with adequate sunlight.  Hi Ho Hi Ho
    2.3kW [10] Enecsys SMI-240-60 micro inverters

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  • Thomas
    Thomas Solar Expert Posts: 291 ✭
    #17
    Re: Generic Upgrade

    I will paraphrase #12 again.

    I have heard it called a Ground diode when used in this fashion(neg gnd) I did not like the idea of mixing the lightening/pole grnd and neg ground so I didn't.
    I have a light duty ground set up branched from the battery/gnd diode.
    a 10'rebar sealed in pvc stuck up under the trailer.
    at the jucction I have a 1a shunt to make a varied resistance to the rest of the 12v. circuit.
    they used to have a small regulatory device for that, a groung reg. or something.
    I remember reading that battery/solar/wind cycling electricity needs fresh electrons. I learned this around the same time I learned the evils of lightbulbs, ovens,heaters....toasters, dryers etc.
    Always troubleshoot with adequate sunlight.  Hi Ho Hi Ho
    2.3kW [10] Enecsys SMI-240-60 micro inverters

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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #18
    Re: Generic Upgrade

    Huh? Somebody else will have to help out with this,, as it is all Greek to me, diodes, rebar sealed in PVC, needing fresh electrons, 1 amp shunt on grounds, to is all beyond me.

    Signing off,

    Tony
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  • Thomas
    Thomas Solar Expert Posts: 291 ✭
    #19
    Re: Generic Upgrade

    alpa~omega 1234567890
    Always troubleshoot with adequate sunlight.  Hi Ho Hi Ho
    2.3kW [10] Enecsys SMI-240-60 micro inverters

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  • Windsun
    Windsun Solar Expert Posts: 1,164 ✭✭
    #20
    Re: Generic Upgrade

    You lost me at the part about "fresh electrons".
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #21
    Re: Generic Upgrade
    Windsun wrote: »
    You lost me at the part about "fresh electrons".

    Lost me a long time ago. I've been wondering if it's all some kind of game being played. "alpa~omega 1234567890"
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  • Thomas
    Thomas Solar Expert Posts: 291 ✭
    #22
    Re: Generic Upgrade

    windsun-I really did read in a book someplace that a property of discharged batteries chemistry is stale/ flat acid.(it would still burn though I think, needs to go to ground, or needed to go to ground to freshen up, really, thats what I read anyway.closed circuit electrons+-+-+-+-in a chemical bond ...

    Wayne-acarius-I know a little greek, and the page wouldnt let me just 2 words, I needed 18 characters to click..

    waiting for my new voltage line controll device, for load controll, and my new Xantrex C-35 with temp sensor.
    Always troubleshoot with adequate sunlight.  Hi Ho Hi Ho
    2.3kW [10] Enecsys SMI-240-60 micro inverters

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