Why does this Shurflo pump seem so great? Will it work for my house with my EU2000i?

jeffkruse
jeffkruse Solar Expert Posts: 205 ✭✭✭
in Solar Water Pumping #1
Searching through this forum I found a Shurflo water pump http://www.solar-electric.com/2088-594-154.html
This pump seems like it will work for me. I currently am using a 1/2HP pump to take water from my cistern and pump it up to my house. My pump sits outside of the cistern at the bottom. The cistern is about 20’ lower than the top of the house. Pipes are ½” and we only take one shower at a time. There is a 20 or 40 gallon pressure tank connected near the pump. The pressure is 60psi off and 20 on. 45-50 psi off would be great but I would like the on pressure set at 30.

My current pump will not work with my Honda EU2000i. I was able to get the pump to start a few times from the generator but I had to plug it directly into the generator and start the generator with it connected. If the generator was on when the pump tried to start it wouldn’t work.

This Shurflo pump seems to draw so little current. Its flow would be about 2 GPM. Would this be enough? Is there another model that could provide 3GPM at 30PSI?

What kind of maintenance am I looking at for a pump like this?
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Comments

  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: Why does this Shurflo pump seem so great? Will it work for my house with my EU20

    Perhaps you should consider a 12 volt pump such as: http://www.solar-electric.com/5904-1211.html
    You can power it from your generator using this: http://www.solar-electric.com/ioen12vo15am.html
    This extreme sensor pump needs no pressure tank.

    Another possibility is to use a lower capacity 12 volt pump such as: http://www.solar-electric.com/8000-443-136.html which, I believe can be powered directly by the 12 volt output of the honda eu2000 generator.

    An advantage of using a 12 volt pump is that someday you can set up a modest solar system that will power the pump, and free yourself from the generator.
    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
    Re: Why does this Shurflo pump seem so great? Will it work for my house with my EU20

    Jeff the specs for that pump are
    PSI 10 20 30 40
    BAR .7 1.4 2.1 2.8
    GPM 2.6 2.34 2.08 1.85
    L/MIN 9.8 8.8 7.9 6.2
    AMPS .58 .67 .76 .94

    There is no way that your 2000w gen at ~13.3 A should not be able to run the pump.. it is listed @ drawing 113 W.
    That gen puts out 2000max and 16000W continuous.

    Re the old pump: are you trying to start it in ECONO mode. My 1000 has problems with inrush if in Econo mode.
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #4
    Re: Why does this Shurflo pump seem so great? Will it work for my house with my EU20

    Non submersible shurflos are good pumps. That said, they won't pull water very far. (suction side) but they will push water up to ~60 psi, so if you locate the pump at the cistern, with all the wiring loses associated with that it should work, but if you expect to ump from the cistern up 20' is won't.

    Tony
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  • mikeo
    mikeo Solar Expert Posts: 386 ✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: Why does this Shurflo pump seem so great? Will it work for my house with my EU20
    I currently am using a 1/2HP pump to take water from my cistern and pump it up to my house.
    Typical 1/2 hp submersible pump takes about 30 amps to start at 220 volts, 60 amps at 120 volts. I don't think your 2000i has that much surge power.
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  • jeffkruse
    jeffkruse Solar Expert Posts: 205 ✭✭✭
    #6
    My Honda EU2000i wont power this tiny Shurflo pump :(

    Well, I finally needed to use my Shurflo 2088-492-444 water pump. It did not work with my Honda EU2000i! :grr

    I even made a short electrical cord of no more than 5' and pluged only it into my generator. I tried in Eco Mode and not in Eco mode. I even removed any output pressure on the pump.

    My EU2000i goes into overload in less than a second and only a few spits of water comes out. This pump runs fine on my household AC.

    Also, I can get my Honda EU2000i to start my old 1/2HP waterpump if that pump has less than 10 PSI on it. The Honda powers my microwave and in sink garbage disposal (one at a time). Everything else in the house can be run at the same time off of the EU2000i just fine.

    This doesnt make sense! :cry:
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #7
    Re: My Honda EU2000i wont power this tiny Shurflo pump :(
    jeffkruse wrote: »
    Well, I finally needed to use my Shurflo 2088-492-444 water pump. It did not work with my Honda EU2000i! :grr

    I even made a short electrical cord of no more than 5' and pluged only it into my generator. I tried in Eco Mode and not in Eco mode. I even removed any output pressure on the pump.

    My EU2000i goes into overload in less than a second and only a few spits of water comes out. This pump runs fine on my household AC.

    Also, I can get my Honda EU2000i to start my old 1/2HP waterpump if that pump has less than 10 PSI on it. The Honda powers my microwave and in sink garbage disposal (one at a time). Everything else in the house can be run at the same time off of the EU2000i just fine.

    This doesnt make sense! :cry:
    Are you sure you have it wired right ?? Are your bringing the hot into the switched side ?? If you are breaking the ground with the switch you may have a issue ?? I don't have that exact pump, but the color code on the wiring would be easy to mix up on the one I have.
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  • inetdog
    inetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    #8
    Re: My Honda EU2000i wont power this tiny Shurflo pump :(
    jeffkruse wrote: »
    My EU2000i goes into overload in less than a second and only a few spits of water comes out. This pump runs fine on my household AC.

    Also, I can get my Honda EU2000i to start my old 1/2HP waterpump if that pump has less than 10 PSI on it. The Honda powers my microwave and in sink garbage disposal (one at a time). Everything else in the house can be run at the same time off of the EU2000i just fine.

    This doesnt make sense! :cry:

    How fast is the pump spinning at the time the inverter shuts down? If it is not anywhere near full speed, you are still in the starting surge region of its power consumption, and that may be just too much for the Honda to handle.

    According to the specification sheet (http://legacy.shurflo.com/pdf/rv/product_data_sheets/pds-2088-492-144.pdf) this pump is not intended for use IN an RV but rather as a shore-side pump. As such it assumes that it will have full shore power available for starting and no effort was made to make it easy to start. (In fact, the descriptive name for it elsewhere on the site is "Park Model Pump.")
    The recommended fuse is 1 AMP time-delay which also suggests a high starting surge.

    There are threads about starting surge and ways to reduce the surge, some of which may apply to your pump, but you may be better off replacing it with a pump that is better designed for your circumstances.

    The Honda EU20001 has good surge power capabilities for an inverter model generator, but a traditional generator can often have larger surge ratings because it can suck power from the energy of the spinning "flywheel" and deliver current even as it slows down under the load.
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #9
    Re: My Honda EU2000i wont power this tiny Shurflo pump :(

    If the pump itself is working too hard (undersized) it will remain in start-up too long like inetdog said. In general it's not a direct replacement for a 1/2 HP centri-pump; you'd have to change a lot more (the plumbing).
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #10
    Re: Why does this Shurflo pump seem so great? Will it work for my house with my EU2000i

    If a Honda EU 2000 won't start a pump that takes .9 amps, Honda is in trouble. I agree it has a starting surge, it still should start that pump.

    115 VAC, 3.3 GPM, 45 PSI, .9 Amps Open Flow

    This quiet pump is self priming and can run dry without damage

    Built-in check valve

    Thermally Protected & Installs Easily

    2 Year Limited Warranty
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  • inetdog
    inetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    #11
    Re: Why does this Shurflo pump seem so great? Will it work for my house with my EU2000i
    Blackcherry04 wrote: »
    If a Honda EU 2000 won't start a pump that takes .9 amps, Honda is in trouble. I agree it has a starting surge, it still should start that pump.

    115 VAC, 3.3 GPM, 45 PSI, .9 Amps Open Flow

    This quiet pump is self priming and can run dry without damage

    Built-in check valve

    Thermally Protected & Installs Easily

    2 Year Limited Warranty

    Good point. Another interesting test to make, since the pump can run dry, is to disconnect the inlet water. This is a diaphragm pump and so there is a displacement load on the motor immediately during startup, unlike a centrifugal pump which is not really loaded until it builds up speed.
    ... and only a few spits of water comes out.

    I cannot think of any way to miswire the pump to the inverter that would cause it to behave as reported.
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #12
    Re: Why does this Shurflo pump seem so great? Will it work for my house with my EU2000i
    inetdog wrote: »
    Good point. Another interesting test to make, since the pump can run dry, is to disconnect the inlet water. This is a diaphragm pump and so there is a displacement load on the motor immediately during startup, unlike a centrifugal pump which is not really loaded until it builds up speed.



    I cannot think of any way to miswire the pump to the inverter that would cause it to behave as reported.
    What I was thinking is that the the hot is connected to the pump windings and the neutral is running through the switch. Don't know if that would make a difference, I guess it depends on how the ground is hooked to the pump. On the other hand it should not make a difference if the switch was closed with no pressure on the pump.
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  • inetdog
    inetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    #13
    Re: Why does this Shurflo pump seem so great? Will it work for my house with my EU2000i
    Blackcherry04 wrote: »
    What I was thinking is that the the hot is connected to the pump windings and the neutral is running through the switch. Don't know if that would make a difference, I guess it depends on how the ground is hooked to the pump.

    Since both hot and neutral are isolated from ground, it should not make any difference electrically. The reason people always say to put the switch in the hot and not the neutral is that if you put the switch in the neutral and turn it off, there is still full voltage on the wiring of the load and you could get hurt thinking that it is "turned off".

    If there is a short circuit between some part of the motor winding and ground (defective pump) then the way the three wires are hooked up could make a difference. But an ohmmeter will allow you to test for that.
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
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  • jeffkruse
    jeffkruse Solar Expert Posts: 205 ✭✭✭
    #14
    Re: Why does this Shurflo pump seem so great? Will it work for my house with my EU2000i

    I can not understand why it won't start. It's such a tiny pump. All I can think of is that the diaphram action keeps spiking the current (even though it should be small) and the electronics of the Honda don't like it.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #15
    Re: Why does this Shurflo pump seem so great? Will it work for my house with my EU2000i

    Try placing a 100 watt bulb on parallel with the pump.

    An old trick to stabilize a generator or inverter with sensitive loads.


    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • jimskau
    jimskau Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭✭✭
    #16
    Re: Why does this Shurflo pump seem so great? Will it work for my house with my EU2000i

    Just a precautionary remark on the generator usage. I believe that it is quite rough on the generators to start and stop the engines under load. Also I don't quite understand how the EU2000 can cope better with the load this way. Sounds to me as if there is a maladjustment in your generator.
    What height do you live in? I got clients here in the Sierra Nevada in Spain who has to turn up the rev's on their generators to cope with the height. Problem seems to start around 1200m
    8 x 250Wp Suntech (wife insisted on a dish washer), Outback VFX 3024, Midnite Classic 150, 4 Rolls 6CS25p. Solar installer in Southern Spain. 
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  • lotek
    lotek Solar Expert Posts: 65 ✭✭✭✭
    #17
    Re: Why does this Shurflo pump seem so great? Will it work for my house with my EU2000i

    True, mine uses under 100 watts. if you can run a lightbulb it should start if its wired correctly. I have been having problems with mine, but not getting it to run. I keep loosing prime or something. I must find out where air is entering my line. bummer!
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  • 706jim
    706jim Solar Expert Posts: 519 ✭✭✭✭
    #18
    Re: Why does this Shurflo pump seem so great? Will it work for my house with my EU2000i

    You could always replace that pump with on old Duro piston.

    They happily start with the EU 1000i.
    Island cottage solar system with appriximately 2500 watts of panels, 1kw facing southeast 1.3kw facing southwest 170watt ancient Arco's facing due south. All panels in parallel for a 24 volt system. Trace DR1524 MSW inverter which has performed flawlessly since 1994. Outback Flexmax 80 MPPT charge controller four 467A-h AGM batteries. Insignia 11.5 cubic foot electric fridge 1/4hp GSW piston pump. My 31st year.
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