YAY! We Now Have A Well.... Now What?

pabloesguapo · December 2011

I just got word today, our well is dug! But, now what?

I'm told that it's a shallow gusher: 205 ft deep, and pumps at 79 GPM! Our HOA's CCnR's require us to govern the flow at 15GPM. I'm ok with that, that's still plenty of water.

Up to this point, I have been doing my homework and studying up on log cabin plans and construction, solar PV systems and electrical wiring, and as some of you know, last week I was concentrating on hot water solutions. I have very little idea where to begin with how to get the water out of the hole and into the pipes in my house. I think I would like to go with a solar powered pump, but I don't know where to begin looking for one.

So, I was wondering if anyone here could forward me some links to manufacturers, dealers, maybe some tutorials?

Thanks,
-P.

mike95490 · December 2011

Re: YAY! We Now Have A Well.... Now What?

Congrats - Now you need to figure out how you want to provide pressure

elevated tank .4psi per foot elevation. (handy if you have a hill, or can build a water tower.) Small pump, running a hour or 2 per day @ 1 gpm, can keep a 500 gallon tank full

Pressure tank, about a 40 gallon tank, with a 20 gallon air bladder (innertube) that provides water pressure, which intermittenely is pumped full, and is used till pressure drops, and the pump kicks in again.

Pressure pump. Vari-speed pump runs as needed to keep desired pressure in the water lines. Deep well pumps, generally can't do this. Can be used with a ground level tank to make house pressure

solar_dave · December 2011

Re: YAY! We Now Have A Well.... Now What?

Congrats on such a good well in AZ.

Have you been thinking about a ground level cistern with a strictly solar powered pump setup?

pabloesguapo · December 2011

Re: YAY! We Now Have A Well.... Now What?

Yes. In simple terms: Pump it out of the hole into a "X-Hundred gallon" ground storage tank. If I tap out of that from the bottom, the sheer weight of the water will push it to my house, right? (As long as it's uphill or even elevation to the house, that is...)

BB. · December 2011

Re: YAY! We Now Have A Well.... Now What?

Our host has some pumps:

Solar Water Pumps, DC Pumps, Solar Well Pumps

Given they are in Flagstaff Az, you can probably get some good help from them on what works well in the area.

Making your list of doable options such as pump to tank/cistern vs well pump+pressure tank, irrigation, and seasonal requirements will help narrow things down too.

-Bill

pabloesguapo · December 2011

Re: YAY! We Now Have A Well.... Now What?

Can I pump it out of the well, into a large "something hundred" gallon tank (so we always have a few days' worth of water in case of system failure) and then let that slowly feed a 30-40 gallon pressure tank?

solar_dave · December 2011

Re: YAY! We Now Have A Well.... Now What?

pabloesguapo wrote: »

Can I pump it out of the well, into a large "something hundred" gallon tank (so we always have a few days' worth of water in case of system failure) and then let that slowly feed a 30-40 gallon pressure tank?

Unless you have a site to place the tank up hill you will need a pressure pump with a pressure contactor. It probably doesn't need to be large.

icarus · December 2011

Re: YAY! We Now Have A Well.... Now What?

You can always pump from any tank into a pressure tank. Depending on yr use, you might consider avoiding the problems with a large tank, and just pump directly into a pressure tank,, or two or three. Above ground tanks introduce another level of problems,, and sanitation issues that direct pumping into p tanks don't

Tony

mike95490 · December 2011

Re: YAY! We Now Have A Well.... Now What?

now knowing a bit more, it takes a large pump, and a lot of power to pump from deep well to a pressure tank, and it has to run every time you use about 15 gallons.

I'd suggest using a small solar pump, to pump to a moderate size above ground tank (500 gal) and let that gravity feed your pressure pump. The pressure pump will not need to be large, because the water is right there, just needs to pressurize it.

Depending on how fast you cycle water through the 500 gal tank, and how clean the water is, you may have to treat it, maybe with an ozoneator.

Volvo Farmer · December 2011

Re: YAY! We Now Have A Well.... Now What?

icarus wrote: »

You can always pump from any tank into a pressure tank. Depending on yr use, you might consider avoiding the problems with a large tank, and just pump directly into a pressure tank,, or two or three. Above ground tanks introduce another level of problems,, and sanitation issues that direct pumping into p tanks don't

Tony

True, but I really like having 1600 gallons of water in reserve. If my well pump quits, I have 3-4 weeks supply to sort it out. We use a Shurflo 2088 into a 40 gallon pressure tank. Not much pressure, but it works and is cheap and easy to replace.

Do below ground tanks have sanitation issues? We have had a concrete underground tank here for years and have never had sanitation issues with it.

icarus · December 2011

Re: YAY! We Now Have A Well.... Now What?

I am not a water quality expert, but it seems to me that any time you have water exposed to air you have. Potential for contamination. That said, if you chlorinate it is probably not an issue.

T.

pabloesguapo · December 2011

Re: YAY! We Now Have A Well.... Now What?

Sounds like I was thinking along the same lines as Mike. Low power/flow pump into a big tank and gravity feed a pressure tank.

Volvo, are you the author of this article, by chance?

http://byexample.com/projects/current/submersible_well_pump/

Thanks for the link, B.B. I tried calling, but it was just barely after hours.

Dave, we have to get together sometime once I move down there, we're practically next door neighbors!

Volvo Farmer · December 2011

Re: YAY! We Now Have A Well.... Now What?

That is not my article.

So you have a place 100 ft above your house you can put your storage tank? at .4 psi/cu ft (Mike's number) it would take 100 ft of head to supply decent household pressure without a booster pump.

icarus · December 2011

Re: YAY! We Now Have A Well.... Now What?

100 feet of head will yield ~40 psi, less friction loses.

Icarus

pabloesguapo · December 2011

Re: YAY! We Now Have A Well.... Now What?

Right. 100ft? That ain't gonna happen.

Solar pump into a big tank> 12v (solar) pump into a pressure tank?

icarus · December 2011

Re: YAY! We Now Have A Well.... Now What?

I use a Shurflo submersible, pumping into a 60 PSI pressure tank. Draws ~ 15 amps on 12 vdc, pumps ~ 3-5 gpm.

Tony

SCharles · December 2011

Re: YAY! We Now Have A Well.... Now What?

We have a 2000 gal. cistern [built from concrete block and sitting on the ground, solid rock here so could not bury it] we fill from our well, topping it off every couple months on a sunny, clear day. We run a Grunfos soft-start 120 v. pump to do this. I decided to go with that, powered from our house PV system, rather than a "solar" pump, as to do that would have meant buying another complete PV charging set-up just for the pump. We have plenty of electricity from the house system on sunny days, so I spent a little money on 6 ga. direct-burial wiring and ran it from the house to the well. It was much less expensive than a dedicated solar pumping op' and simpler for us.

We draw water from the cistern with a 12 v. Dankoff Flowlight pump. We have a pressure tank in the house, I don't recall but it is probably around 30 gal., maybe 40. That is all automatic, with a pressure switch, so the only thing I have to do is monitor the level in the cistern and switch on the Grunfos to fill it. And switch it off before sundown.

Works great.

As to the cistern, we've had it over 20 years. It is as sealed up as I could make it. However, I have had to drain and clean it out three times in those two decades. There are always a few crickets or spiders that somehow get in there and drown. And etc. We run the water through a reverse osmosis filter in the kitchen for human consumption.

pabloesguapo · December 2011

Re: YAY! We Now Have A Well.... Now What?

@SCharles - That's an interesting idea. Maybe I can run a 120v line in the same trench (different conduit, of course) when I run the water pipes? Or at least run two side by side as long as I have the trencher rented for the day? Not exactly sure yet how long the run is between well and proposed house site. I definitely like the idea od not having to buy another PV system, even if it's small. We're in AZ, with plenty of sunshine, so I think siphoning a little electricity off the house once in a while isn't going to be much of an issue.

BB. · December 2011

Re: YAY! We Now Have A Well.... Now What?

I always suggest to bury one or two large diameter ABS plastic pipe (or rated electrical conduit if you not a cheap son of a gun) in trenches to allow for possible expansion without having to open up a new trench.

-Bill

SCharles · December 2011

Re: YAY! We Now Have A Well.... Now What?

pabloesguapo wrote: »

@SCharles - That's an interesting idea. Maybe I can run a 120v line in the same trench (different conduit, of course) when I run the water pipes? Or at least run two side by side as long as I have the trencher rented for the day? Not exactly sure yet how long the run is between well and proposed house site. I definitely like the idea od not having to buy another PV system, even if it's small. We're in AZ, with plenty of sunshine, so I think siphoning a little electricity off the house once in a while isn't going to be much of an issue.

This is what I did [one trench]. The hillside I had to run the pipe and wire down is extremely steep and rocky. No machine I can think of would work. I had to do it by hand. So, no way I wanted to do two trenches. I got some of that sky-blue plastic pipe for potable water from a well/pump/etc. wholesale place through my driller who let me go get stuff on his account. I put the direct-burial cables in the same trench.

The run from my inverter to the well pump is a ways out there. Don't recall exactly, but it was probably 350 feet, possibly more. I calculated the loss due to that run for 120 v. and the draw of the pump with a relative who just retired as an electrician and was interested and still had some books he used when he worked. That gave me 6 ga. wire for a slight and acceptable loss. The wire was expensive, but it was nowhere near as expensive as a solar installation with controller/battery/panels/rack/etc. down at the well site. The dedicated solar pumping station is a very elegant solution but also quite pricey for just running a pump.

So figure out how long of a run you will have for the wiring, how much starting current your choice of pump will need, and whether your house inverter will handle that surge. I suggest buying a bit longer wire than you think you'll need; you don't want to hassle with "extending" a too-short wire and you can use the left over for other PV stuff sooner or later.

For us, using our existing house PV system worked out to be so much simpler once I had it all done. And I put control switches down at the well house as well as up at the cottage so I can turn the pump on from either location. Another thing I did was to put an electrical outlet down at the well house, on the same wires I ran for the pump, in case I ever needed to operate an electric drill or whatever down there. I have already used that outlet several times.....

westbranch · December 2011

Re: YAY! We Now Have A Well.... Now What?

SCharles wrote: »

I put control switches down at the well house as well as up at the cottage so I can turn the pump on from either location. Another thing I did was to put an electrical outlet down at the well house, on the same wires I ran for the pump, in case I ever needed to operate an electric drill or whatever down there. .....

I like both those add ons.. I am going to duplicate them next summer... Plus add an empty conduit with a string inside in case something happens to the original. BTW the lines have to pass under my boat launch access road

Ralph Day · December 2011

Re: YAY! We Now Have A Well.... Now What?

If you're pulling one wire, pull at least one more! The minimal cost of wire will be saved if you don't have to trench again.

Been there, done that. It was nice to just hook up the extra pulled wire when it was needed.

Ralph

westbranch · December 2011

Re: YAY! We Now Have A Well.... Now What?

Ralph, good idea. what are your thoughts about conduit size?

Fe-Wood · December 2011

Re: YAY! We Now Have A Well.... Now What?

I run the Grundfos SQFLEX system and love it! I have 4000gls of above ground storage that I use for irrigation and domestic water. The system is stand alone, meaning it has 4 PV panels to run the pump, float switch and controller. I live on a hill so one dwelling has gravity feed while the other has a small sureflo 120VAC pressure pump run into a small bladder tank (pressure tank). The irrigation runs on gravity. I am at the minimum elevation drop to make this work. Think on demand hot water heater and solenoid valves.

One suggestion-
Narrow down your needs and requirements as best you can before you put anything in. By anything I mean your power system, water system, heating system (water and air), cooling system etc. Whether or not you will be putting in a pond. I know, its the desert but still... With careful planning and all the new goodies and old technologies available, you can tie them all together to achieve optimal efficiency and simplicity.
I wish I had done this as my systems have been evolving for the last 10 years.

pabloesguapo · December 2011

Re: YAY! We Now Have A Well.... Now What?

Thanks for all the input, guys. This will help a lot.

I have a new riddle to solve. I will repost this as a new htread too.

I would like to use this well to irrigate a few acres of my land in addition to providing H2O to my house. The well is at the same level for about half this land I want to irrigate, and even a bit below some of it too. How do I provide enough pressure to irrigate a few acres worth of land, especially the land that is uphill?

BB. · December 2011

Re: YAY! We Now Have A Well.... Now What?

Since you did ask the questions in a new thread--I will move my post over there... And I would suggest that everyone post their discussion points there too (more difficult if same question on multiple threads).

-Bill

YAY! We Now Have A Well.... Now What?

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