Time to go phantom-load-hunting...

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RandomJoe
RandomJoe Solar Expert Posts: 472 ✭✭✭
in General Solar Power Topics #1
Just signed in to the website my power company put up so we could monitor our usage through the new smart meters. Nifty site, although I hope they offer a way to download the data in CSV format or something. Right now I can only view their graphs.

But right away I see I need to do some load hunting. Last spring I did a week-long test where I carefully monitored what I had plugged in / turned on and read the meter every morning. One side-effect of that was I found i couldn't account for roughly 4-5 kWh/day.

The data the power company provides now is broken down into 15-minute increments, and - golly gee - it shows during the days when I am gone, and all my 24x7 loads are switched to solar power, I still have a 120-240W continuous load! The 240W segments I'm sure are when the fridge is running, so remove that wattage and I'm left with basically a 120-140W "base load".

Looks like I'm definitely using that power somewhere, now I just have to find it!

I do know of one CFL that has been on every day this week (laziness) but that's only 18W. Time to dig out the clamp meter I guess and start measuring circuits...! I wouldn't have thought the few things I can think of would draw that much "idle" current - alarm clock, clock in oven, doorbell transformer, silly things like that. I just don't have very many of them! Can't be the garage door opener, it too is on an outlet that switches to the solar system!

Will be interesting to see what I find...!
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #2
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    Re: Time to go phantom-load-hunting...

    I hope you don't find that the smart meter is out of whack; that would be the most difficult thing to fix. :roll:
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  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
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    Re: Time to go phantom-load-hunting...

    This place has typically .6 to .8 kWh of "phantom" loads in the middle of the night, it varies. I know several:

    1. 2 100watt equivalent CFLs on the driveway, has cut down mischief.
    2. 4 Mac Minis in sleep mode, each with an external time machine drive and speaker systems. 2 with printers attached.
    3. 2 Trane thermostats, one mini split system.
    4. one 50inch TV and one 42 inch TV and one 32 inch TV each with a cable box
    5. Cable Modem, Wireless router, giga bit switch, Vonage VOIP
    6. The TED
    7. Microwave oven, stove clock, alarm clock
    8. Whirlpool energy star fridge and Energy star freezer.
    9. Solar DHW Thermal Controller
    10. 3 garage door openers
    11. 6 low watt LED night lights, damn weasels ! :D
    12. Swimming pool timer clock
    13. 2 PVP 5200 inverters sampling the line.
    14. variety of wall warts charging iPads, and cell phones, and wireless handsets.

    I am sure there are more, I just don't feel that there is a need to chase those loads down at ~$0.05 a kWh on my TOU plan. The savings are less than the effort is worth. I suppose I could cut 200-300 watts out but why? Those are the conveniences of life and the savings are just not there.
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  • TheBackRoads
    TheBackRoads Solar Expert Posts: 274 ✭✭
    #4
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    Re: Time to go phantom-load-hunting...

    Let us know what you find, I have a TED-5000 coming today :p
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  • RCinFLA
    RCinFLA Solar Expert Posts: 1,484 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
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    Re: Time to go phantom-load-hunting...

    Satellite TV receivers are never off, even when you turn them off. Just shuts down front indicator lights.

    DirectTV DVR draws 30 watts on or off. You may have already noticed the hard drive ticking away all the time.

    For all wall warts, if they are heavy and warm, meaning they have line transformer, get rid of them. Most newer products are using switching power supply wall warts. They are smaller and lighter, and draw a lot less power when their parent device is turned off. You can usually fine a switch mode power supply wall wart replacement for any of the older heavy iron transformer units.
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  • RandomJoe
    RandomJoe Solar Expert Posts: 472 ✭✭✭
    #6
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    Re: Time to go phantom-load-hunting...

    I made a little progress before the sun went behind the trees. I'll have to wait for a sunny day so I can turn things off and start doing a bit more digging.

    I did find a few rather surprising loads, but there is still a sizable chunk I have no idea where it's going!

    The loads that most surprised me:
    Bookshelf stereo system in standby - 5W (my BIG system in the living room doesn't draw this!)
    Composite-to-VGA converter box (was using it to hook a Wii to a monitor) - 7W idle
    Strangest of all - Isobar "power pad" power strip / conditioner - 2W all by itself!

    The bedroom clocks weren't an issue, 2W for the two by the bed (one I modded to turn on the bedside light), but the two in the kitchen - microwave and oven clock - add up to 6W and I don't use them. Wish I could kill those somehow, but I use the appliances. Could probably cut a wire on the oven clock, but can't do that with the microwave. Guess I could install a switch to cut power entirely when not in use.

    What baffles me are three circuits with sizable loads I can't at all account for. One hits my dryer (110V gas dryer, mechanical controls, KaW says 0W when not in use) and the kitchen island vent hood (just a vent fan and light, shouldn't be pulling anything but I'll have to take it apart to measure) but I measured 0.15A / 18W on that circuit!

    Similarly the furnace blower circuit. KaW says it and the controls I have on that outlet total 11W, but at the panel I measured 0.31A / 37.2W - so 26W going "somewhere"!

    And a third circuit that hits lights & outlets in 4 rooms (why do they wire things that way?) measured 0.51A / 61.2W but all the things I have plugged in there only total 40W. Another 21W missing - I know this circuit also powers the doorbell transformer, but that should be just a few watts at most. Will have to climb into the attic to check it though.

    So a total of 65W I cannot account for, 99W I *did* account for - not all of it "phantom". Total is about right, so I think the new meter is accurate.

    The unaccountable watts do worry me a little. I have found as I've done various projects around the house that the previous owner's son - who claimed to be an electrician - did some very ... interesting things ... in his wiring. He put a flood on the front of the garage, but didn't pull an extra wire - ran it to the garage light fixture, used the black of the feeder for the garage light, white for the flood, and the BARE GROUND wire for neutral for both! *sigh*

    He also put a 220 plug behind BOTH the washer and dryer, but only one breaker. They are connected together - somewhere! Even better, that circuit also feeds two 110V outlets in the living room - no idea where that splice is either - no ground wire to those outlets, and of course the dryer breaker is considerably larger than 20A... Good thing I'm a DIYer who likes electricity, I've found plenty to fix already, who knows what I'll find when I start digging around up in the attic tracing these circuits!
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  • RCinFLA
    RCinFLA Solar Expert Posts: 1,484 ✭✭✭✭
    #7
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    Re: Time to go phantom-load-hunting...

    It looks like you are confusing VA for watts. The power conditioner probably has an L-C filter in it. This will creat a reactive load but very low wattage consumed.

    Residential meters charge by watts not by VA.

    Just measurng amps magnitude and voltage magnitude on a line will only tell you VA.

    Kill-A-Watt meter is good but only useful above 1 watt.

    If it is actually consuming watts there will be heat generated. I just purchased a Black and Decker IR temp sensor for $30. It is no more accurate then any of the cheap IR temp sensor but it has a comparison reference that is set to what you are pointing at when you first turn it on. I was lucky in that the one I got seems to have an absolute accuracy of 2 deg F.

    Anyway, I point it at the wall for reference, reading 78 degs. I point it at a switch mode wall wart and it reads 79 degs. I point it at an old iron transformer wall wart and it reads 96 degs. The old wall wart is consuming 3 watts with no output load. The switching power supply consumes about 0.4 watts with no load and its output power capability is about six times the iron core transformer wall wart.
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  • RandomJoe
    RandomJoe Solar Expert Posts: 472 ✭✭✭
    #8
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    Re: Time to go phantom-load-hunting...

    I'm not actually confusing VA and watts, just I conveniently didn't think about it... Most of the time the two are close enough for my purposes, or I'm actually more interested in VA anyway - such as calculating loads for self-generated power. But you reminded me that at these part-load / standby power levels most of the devices I've measured with the KaW have really awful PF. I'll have to take that into account...

    However, the line conditioner was an actual wattage measurement. The KaW shows 2W / 3VA PF fluctuating 0.75-0.80. It's quite old, perhaps the caps are getting leaky...

    I emailed support and the power company said they don't have a way for me to download the data. The rep actually suggested screen-scraping the web page, which was my fallback. Sure would have been nicer to have a proper data transfer file/mode...
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  • PhilS
    PhilS Solar Expert Posts: 370 ✭✭✭
    #9
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    Re: Time to go phantom-load-hunting...

    I disconnected our oven clock. NO big deal, the oven still works. We can't use the timers, but we never did.

    I know the gas solenoid has a big draw (our last oven's was almost 10a, I haven't measured this one's) but it is only drawing when the flame is on, like the glow bar. I'd have liked to get one with a pilot, or at least without a glow bar, but had no success finding one to fit our 'hole'. So, for us, using the oven means not only propane but electricity. Oh, well, it's the price to bake.

    DirectTV's DVR sounds better than our DishDVR... I measured it closer to 50w on or off. But the switch strip for 'entertainment' is off whenever we aren't using anything. So it's just part of the price to watch TV.

    Phil
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