78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

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Spacecoast Solar
Spacecoast Solar Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭✭
in Solar Product Reviews & Opinions #1
Has anyone purchased from Sun Electronics in Miami? They are advertising Evergreen 225 watt panels for 78 cents per watt. 10% deposit required on a pallet. They expect delivery in 5-6 weeks. They claim to have won the auction of 7MW of panels of Evergreen's assets. I am new to Solar, this order being my first order, and I'm not wanting to get burned. Minimum order was 20 panels, then changed to 1 panel for that price. Deadline to order at that price was midnight tonight, that slipped to the 11th and now the 14th. making me nervous.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,439 admin
    #2
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    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    Yes, Sun Elect is real and, from what I understand, they do have a bunch of happy customers. And like every business, they have a few that are not so happy.

    However, it is incumbent on the customer to make sure they understand what is being purchased.

    Sun Elect has a wide variety of product, some first grade with warranties and UL/NRTL certs, others are B grade with certs, and others may be off-grade, rejected, other panels (for example, boxes and diodes stripped).

    I have never spoken with Sun Elec and never have used any of their products (I am not in the solar business, and my system is grid tied).

    You can view older threads on the forum by this Google Search.

    -Bill "your mileage may vary" B.

    PS: Solar panels can be very expensive to ship... So make sure you understand your total cost delivered to your door step (including shipping and handling). Partial pallets can cost as much (or even more) than full pallets to ship.

    This goes for any vendor you order from.
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • jagec
    jagec Solar Expert Posts: 157 ✭✭
    #3
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    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    Shipping for a full pallet of panels will probably add $600 or so, depending on where you are. Just to give you a ballpark. Back in the day that was peanuts compared to the cost of the panels themselves, but now that things are getting so cheap, it adds up...
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  • Spacecoast Solar
    Spacecoast Solar Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭✭
    #4
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    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    Thanks Guys, I am aware that the panels are B grade and that Sun is providing the warranty since Evergreen has gone belly up. I am about 4 hour drive from their Miami warehouse, so a bounce trip will cost me a little over $100 in gas. Even 8 hours of my driving time will save me a lot in delivery charges. I guess we will see how this plays out.
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  • Fullpower
    Fullpower Solar Expert Posts: 69 ✭✭
    #5
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    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    I did make an order with Sun Electronics, Miami. Merchandice supposed to be in stock, ready to ship.
    PV modules, at great price, in stock.....
    After a few weeks, with NO shipping confirmation, no bill of lading, I cancelled the order.
    I wouldn't buy bottled water from them, face to face in the Mojave desert.
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  • rollandelliott
    rollandelliott Solar Expert Posts: 834 ✭✭
    #6
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    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    I've bought stuff from them before, but don't expect great customer service. How could you possibly get burned if you drove down there to pick them up and pay cash? Reserve with a credit card and when the panels show up in 2 months have fun.

    If you read their blog, you would find out that they were looking for a million dollars from an investor to buy cheap panels a month or two ago. They need to pay for the auction they won, and they made the reservation date early so they could gauge if they could pay their bills by forcing potential customers to make a committment. Looks like they pushed it farther out. Perhaps they got some huge orders. Perhaps not? Just my opiniion.

    Anyways worst case scenario is they hold on to your money for 2 months and then give it back to you.

    At 78cents a watt I'd go for it.

    JUST BE AWARE THAT EVERGREENS COME IN A LOW 18V VARIETY (AS WELL AS A HIGHER 30VMP) AND AT 18VMP YOU'D NEED A GOOD 18-20 OF THEM TO EVEN COME CLOSE TO MEETING THE START VOLTAGE OF A 5 or 6kw GRID TIE INVERTER. I'm sure their are some smaller grid tie inverters out there, but check them out otherwise you will be stuck with changing how the system works.

    Lastly before you buy a system post your specs here, so we can double check their sizing.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,439 admin
    #7
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    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    Let's not get into speculating what Sun Elec's business plan is... We are not their support forum.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • jagec
    jagec Solar Expert Posts: 157 ✭✭
    #8
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    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    If I was within driving distance of there I'd certainly check it out. I'm tempted as it is, but I have nowhere to mount them. I need to convince my neighbor that he should let me borrow his roof for a few years.:p
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  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    #9
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    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    jagec, it IS within driving distance. I drove from MD to FL 4 times this year chasing the last 2 shuttle launches. 14 hours one-way from north of Baltimore to Titusville, FL. :-)

    Yeah, ok, not "next door", but it is drivable...
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #10
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    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true
    techntrek wrote: »
    jagec, it IS within driving distance. I drove from MD to FL 4 times this year chasing the last 2 shuttle launches. 14 hours one-way from north of Baltimore to Titusville, FL. :-)

    Yeah, ok, not "next door", but it is drivable...

    you might have to add about 3 more hours one way to that drive time to get to miami.
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  • James
    James Solar Expert Posts: 250 ✭✭
    #11
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    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    Looks like thier website is now posting the price at $.98 per watt...if that matters.
    I myself let it go.....even when they were not chasing this auction deal, i could not get a detailed quote from them.
    they would always "forget" to add shipping cost, or their special "handling" fee. Couldn't get a straight answer or sometimes even a reply. Best to stick with straight shooters like our host.
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  • Eric L
    Eric L Solar Expert Posts: 262 ✭✭
    #12
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    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    I bit and ordered 12 at .78/watt. The person on the phone today said that they weren't requiring a minimum order of 20 anymore for this price. We'll see what happens. Still haven't received a shipping quote.

    I've bought panels from them in the past and had no problems, FWIW.
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  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    #13
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    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true
    niel wrote: »
    you might have to add about 3 more hours one way to that drive time to get to miami.

    Still driveable! ;)
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
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  • snuffy
    snuffy Solar Expert Posts: 72 ✭✭✭✭
    #14
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    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true
    James wrote: »
    Looks like thier website is now posting the price at $.98 per watt...if that matters.
    I myself let it go.....even when they were not chasing this auction deal, i could not get a detailed quote from them.
    they would always "forget" to add shipping cost, or their special "handling" fee. Couldn't get a straight answer or sometimes even a reply. Best to stick with straight shooters like our host.

    Similar to my experiences with them. Strange ways of doing business.
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #15
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    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    FWIW- The price is back down to .78.

    For those considering driving down, there are 2 things to consider;
    1 - perhaps they are drop shipping from where ever they have purchased these close outs?
    2 - Florida had no sales tax on solar, so you need not worry about any additional expense there.

    I'm considering these as well, This has got to be below wholesale and US seems to be devaluingthe dollar. and I think I'd need about 4KW to take the mobile off grid Now it's pretty close to being within reach, I can use C60 CC as It's all summer use, and I have the battery, just have to go back to golf carts at the cabin....
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • rollandelliott
    rollandelliott Solar Expert Posts: 834 ✭✭
    #16
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    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    They are not drop shipping them, they were purchased from Europe accoridng to Hilcoind.com the auction house that sold the panels. As of right now they are all out of grade A modules, only grade B are left according to one customer service rep. I'm surprised they sold so many so quickly.

    It is a very good price, but honestly I bet in half a year the normal prices will be around this level. No need to rush and buy these as their will be another sale from some other bankrupt company soon enough.
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  • tallgirl
    tallgirl Solar Expert Posts: 413 ✭✭
    #17
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    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true
    rollandelliott wrote: »
    It is a very good price, but honestly I bet in half a year the normal prices will be around this level. No need to rush and buy these as their will be another sale from some other bankrupt company soon enough.

    Very unlikely -- panel prices =are= falling, but not that fast.

    I've seriously considered putting a 2KW array up east, and another 2KW up west (or 1 and 3 so I can run the A/C off solar ;) and would =love= to pay $3,000 to add 4KW, but I'm not expecting that to be the case for first quality panels for another 4 or 5 years.
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  • rollandelliott
    rollandelliott Solar Expert Posts: 834 ✭✭
    #18
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    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    I base that prediction that last year panel prices fell 17%
    this year panel prices have fallen 33%. At the beginning of the year they were $1.50/watt and now I can get them for $1/watt if I buy a whole system ( and lets face it, you're gonna need to buy an inverter/rack anyways).

    For the panel prices to fall to $0.78 a watt means they would need to drop another $0.22 or 22% from their current prices.

    So based on past price drops, it will likely be a year away, not half a year as I previously mentioned.
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  • James
    James Solar Expert Posts: 250 ✭✭
    #19
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    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    Folks should keep in mind are these are from an auction purchase which doesnt really have bearing on the current USA or global prices, for these were set low. I think they could have asked a $1.00 or more per watt without a blink from anyone.

    Ask the Chinese about where the prices are heading...they know better than we do. I think the prices will rebound to a more realistic level after this trade issue runs it's course. I just don't know how many US companies will still be in the game at that point
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  • rollandelliott
    rollandelliott Solar Expert Posts: 834 ✭✭
    #20
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    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    "I think they could have asked a $1.00 or more per watt without a blink from anyone."

    I'd blink. I can get Grade A panels for $1/watt right now from companies that aren't going bankrupt and have a better chance of actually honoring the warranty. Why would one want to buy grade B panels from a bankrupt company for the same price?

    I get your point, but I honestly think there will be more deals in the future just in case anyone misses this one I wouldnt' sweat it.
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #21
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    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    It's likely they see more possiblities for picking up excess inventory.

    FWIW - I decided I could take a shot at 4KW got an invoice # and proceeded to do a personal bank suffle of $3000 (money market to checking). I hadn't gotten an Email verification yet and when I got to the 2nd bank I tried to reach them to have them fax the order and to pay for the invoice. I could not reach anyone for 25 minutes, and gave up, this was between 4 and 4:25 their time. They are a frustrating company to do business with...

    Shipping was reasonable, $415 with a lift gate truck, I think $330 w/o to central Missouri.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • mikeo
    mikeo Solar Expert Posts: 386 ✭✭✭
    #22
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    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true
    Shipping was reasonable, $415 with a lift gate truck, I think $330 w/o to central Missouri.
    That's good to hear. Ordered 2 pallets for several projects, the only grade A panels left were the 205's but they still have B grade panels available. I suspect panels will go up in price when every thing shakes out. Last I heard it cost around 2.00 a watt to build and ship these panels to market. The Chinese have dumped panels on the market at below the cost of manufacture driving Solar companies bankrupt. There are trade sanctions and tariffs likely to be in place in the US soon on this practice. I suspect panel prices may stabilize around 3.00 a watt unless there are real breakthroughs in manufacturing. If the Chinese win the solar panel manufacturing war, they can charge whatever they want to.
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  • James
    James Solar Expert Posts: 250 ✭✭
    #23
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    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    not sweatin it either.
    i try to keep my eye open for good deal, but i agree, and still have not received a contact for a bos component i inquired about over two weeks ago. i'm done with them.
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  • ggunn
    ggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    #24
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    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true
    mikeo wrote: »
    I suspect panel prices may stabilize around 3.00 a watt unless there are real breakthroughs in manufacturing.
    I certainly hope you are wrong about that.
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  • rollandelliott
    rollandelliott Solar Expert Posts: 834 ✭✭
    #25
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    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    I think he meant installation prices at $3/watt.
    Panel prices have been below $3 a watt for a long long time.
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  • ggunn
    ggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    #26
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    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true
    rollandelliott wrote: »
    I think he meant installation prices at $3/watt.
    Panel prices have been below $3 a watt for a long long time.
    I certainly hope so! $3/W module prices would kill the industry and send me off changing careers --- again!
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  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    #27
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    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    I suspect prices are going to pop back up if they get the Chinese to back off the dumping or add a tariff. Would not surprise me to see panel prices hit over $2-2.50 a watt again.
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #28
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    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    i've done business a few times with sunelec. terrible customer service, but the price is right. i NEVER order from their webpage, and ALWAYS pay with a credit card upon ordering, and haven't had problems once i figured out "the method to the madness".

    basically call them, this may take an hour, get your order set, make them put you on hold to verify the items your ordering are truely in stock, and pay with a credit card. if your order isn't paid for upon request, it may get forgotten about.

    last time i ordered panels from them it was less than a buck a watt delivered. shipping was from miami, FL to portland, OR. still feel bad about that carbon footprint...

    as long as you get your order, this is not a scam. if you don't they refund your money. bad practice, but it's just how that company works. i think people like us ordering 2-20 modules are a pain for them, and they take care of their customers ordering 100-1000 modules.

    adam
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  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    #29
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    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    Here is a reliable company with very good service, and very good prices:
    http://www.solar-electric.com/hiposopa.html

    Have dealt with them for years. JMHO, Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #30
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    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true
    Vic wrote: »
    Here is a reliable company with very good service, and very good prices:
    http://www.solar-electric.com/hiposopa.html

    Have dealt with them for years. JMHO, Vic

    Me too! this is just an anomaly, name brand quality panels at close to 50% of the selling price of other panels, abit with an somewhat questionable warranty(though the seller says they will stand behind them)

    I'll be looking at NAWS (Northern Arizona Wind and Sun) for the balance of my system, 1 maybe 2 Classics 150's, a DC disconnect, I think I have most of the other things, spares from my current system, now at the cabin.

    I couldn't consider a 4kw array at $6500, but it is a bit like shopping at Aldi's(a no frills supermarket with great prices and long lines) You don't get to ask the butcher about the cut of meat, and I won't expect to ask NAWS for help either. The problem often arises when people ask for information from other suppiers. Know what your buying or buy where you can get the full service.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • Shane Jackson
    Shane Jackson Solar Expert Posts: 49 ✭
    #31
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    Re: 78 cents per watt is it too good to be true

    Well I have to change my post because so far sunelec is making good on my order. My XW6048 arrived today... man that thing is HEAVY!!!

    Hopefully I will have panels to power it up soon. Starting the paperwork to go grid tied.... lots and lots of paperwork....

    Shane
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