Solar in NorthWest Washington State

FreeBrrdFreeBrrd Solar Expert Posts: 116 ✭✭✭✭
I am looking at moving to NW Washington State - nears Forkshttp://maps.google.com/maps?q=forks+washington&hl=en&sqi=2&hnear=Forks,+Clallam,+Washington&t=h&z=13&vpsrc=0 - Hoh RainForest. How well does solar work with all the rain they have?

Please keep answers simple. I am suffering from brain damage caused by herbicides/pesticides & cleaning products/air fresheners/sanitizers (basically RoundUp & Fabreze). I can only deal with about two paragraphs at a time. I can't read pages online, just short bits. I can't do searches.

I also only check email a couple of times a week so please be patient. I will read them and reply - a greatly appreciate help.

Comments

  • jeffkrusejeffkruse Solar Expert Posts: 205 ✭✭✭
    Re: Solar in NorthWest Washington State

    Solar would work fine there but you will have to spend 5 – 10 times more for more panels because of the clouds.

    When it’s cloudy out I may only get 20% of my rated panels. I have seen as low as 5% when its really cloudy.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,349 admin
    Re: Solar in NorthWest Washington State

    Glad to see you are still kicking. Sorry that things are still not getting much better for you. :cry:

    Here is an example from PV Watts for Quillayute, Washington (should be close to your area).

    1kW fixed array off grid with 0.52 derating:
    "Station Identification"
    "City:","Quillayute"
    "State:","Washington"
    "Lat (deg N):", 47.95
    "Long (deg W):", 124.55
    "Elev (m): ", 55
    "PV System Specifications"
    "DC Rating:"," 1.0 kW"
    "DC to AC Derate Factor:"," 0.520"
    "AC Rating:"," 0.5 kW"
    "Array Type: Fixed Tilt"
    "Array Tilt:"," 47.9"
    "Array Azimuth:","180.0"

    "Energy Specifications"
    "Cost of Electricity:"," 6.4 cents/kWh"

    "Results"
    "Month", "Solar Radiation (kWh/m^2/day)", "AC Energy (kWh)", "Energy Value ($)"
    1, 1.51, 20, 1.28
    2, 2.21, 29, 1.86
    3, 3.12, 45, 2.88
    4, 4.04, 58, 3.71
    5, 4.73, 69, 4.42
    6, 4.74, 67, 4.29
    7, 4.91, 71, 4.54
    8, 4.57, 65, 4.16
    9, 4.37, 61, 3.90
    10, 3.31, 48, 3.07
    11, 1.87, 25, 1.60
    12, 1.85, 26, 1.66
    "Year", 3.44, 584, 37.38

    You only have "reasonable" power fro April through September--and even that is not good. ~58 kW per month minimum = 1,933 WH per day per 1kW of solar panels 6 months of the year. And Winter will be 1/2 that amount of power.

    The same setup at San Francisco Intl Airport (near the coast), we get:
    "Station Identification"
    "City:","San_Francisco"
    "State:","California"
    "Lat (deg N):", 37.62
    "Long (deg W):", 122.38
    "Elev (m): ", 5
    "PV System Specifications"
    "DC Rating:"," 1.0 kW"
    "DC to AC Derate Factor:"," 0.520"
    "AC Rating:"," 0.5 kW"
    "Array Type: Fixed Tilt"
    "Array Tilt:"," 37.6"
    "Array Azimuth:","180.0"

    "Energy Specifications"
    "Cost of Electricity:","12.5 cents/kWh"

    "Results"
    "Month", "Solar Radiation (kWh/m^2/day)", "AC Energy (kWh)", "Energy Value ($)"
    1, 3.62, 54, 6.75
    2, 4.59, 62, 7.75
    3, 5.22, 79, 9.88
    4, 6.11, 89, 11.12
    5, 6.36, 95, 11.88
    6, 6.47, 94, 11.75
    7, 7.01, 105, 13.12
    8, 6.67, 99, 12.38
    9, 6.62, 95, 11.88
    10, 5.41, 80, 10.00
    11, 3.87, 55, 6.88
    12, 3.35, 50, 6.25
    "Year", 5.45, 958, 119.75

    We get almost that much 12 months of the year...

    How is the mold issue in that area of Washington and does that affect you?

    Sincerely,
    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,311 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Solar in NorthWest Washington State

    rainfall in some areas of wash state can be pretty bad from what i've heard. i've also heard it is highly changeable within just a few miles too. of course rainfall does not indicate how many days are socked in with fog, but here is what i dug up on the rainfall,
    http://www.weatherbase.com/weather/weather.php3?s=727970&refer=&cityname=Quillayute-Washington-United-States-of-America
    to clarify here, now solar costs the same, but to produce the same power as other areas you will need to buy more in pv. it isn't a case of they overcharge you for the same stuff there.
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,156 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Solar in NorthWest Washington State

    If you arsewiously looking the Olympic Pen, and the Hoh, you are going to be lucky to get reasonable solar for but a very limited number of days per year.

    Do a PV watts for Forks, or Lake Quinault.

    Tony,

    I did a PV watts for Quillayte, the closes I can come. A 1 kw array would yield about 800 kwh/year, or by the state electrical cost average ~ $50 worth of power. A grid tie system might cost ~$5-8 watt.

    IMHO, a battery based system would be a real no go, since the areaway too many expended periods of no sun, such that battery autonomy would be tough, and generator run times would be huge.

    T
  • silvertopsilvertop Solar Expert Posts: 155 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Solar in NorthWest Washington State

    Hi,

    Like Niel said, the weather in the NW IS highly changeable. I would not discourage anyone, but you need to do your homework. It does take more panels. There are quite a lot of off grid systems up here and also a lot of grid tie. I always recommend grid tie or grid tie with back up, unless you have a need to be off grid. I'm located about as far NW as you can get 20 miles as the crow flies from the bay, and about 3 miles from the Northern lights (Canada )! I am very happy with my off grid system. I have had two occasions only since April that my Tri- Metric flashed the Five day re-charge warning and never dropped below 80%. But on some of these same days I have driven to town (Bellingham), and THEY were socked in. I conserve more in the winter; after all that is the name of the game to conserve; be more efficient ect. Just a foot note; to encurage you, I read in the DEC 2009 issue of Home Power that one of the authors, Ian Woofender has quote " lived off grid with his family in Washington's San Juan islands for more than 25 years" :D
  • FreeBrrdFreeBrrd Solar Expert Posts: 116 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Solar in NorthWest Washington State

    Being off grid is going to be mandatory. Vehicles carry enough herbicides from the roads that I can not have vehicles on my property at all. If they have to be there, they will have to at least wash the undercarriage and tires before coming.

    This is causing serious brain damage so there is no option.

    I can try a different place. I do not even know yet if NW Washington will be ok. I'm just heading for the closest rain forest.

    I could also go with other power source, but I don't know much about other options.

    I assume that the good parts (sunny) of Alaska would not be any better.

    What the hell did we do before electricity? Oh yeh, burned things, can't do that any more. How would my computer work with no electricity at all?

    The big reason that I have to have a computer and internet access is that I can not go to the store. I will have to do all of my shopping online or have someone else do it for me. This all bites big time.

    Mold and other things do not bother me at all. Just Herbicides/pesticides (RoundUp) and cleaning products/air fresheners/ sanitizers (Fabreze) and a couple of other things. I can paint, even with oil based. I can use chemicals working on the car.

    Hopefully, NW WA will be better enough that I can at least do some research. I can hardly see my computer now. It gets worse every day.
  • boBboB Solar Expert Posts: 963 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Solar in NorthWest Washington State

    Hoh rain forest is nice and clean but that's why they call it the rain forest... Lots of rain and clouds that come with rain. How about somewhere maybe near the ocean and then you can use wind power as well as solar ?? Away from farm land except you might have to stay away from the cranberry fields if there are any nearby. There are, or were, near Westport but I bet there's none on other parts of the coastline.

    Or, pick a semi high spot in the north west either on the peninsula or the San Juan islands. The best place in Washington for solar is near a town called Prosser in Eastern WA but I'm certain you'd want to stay away from Eastern WA because there are a LOT of farms there.

    boB
  • FreeBrrdFreeBrrd Solar Expert Posts: 116 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Solar in NorthWest Washington State

    It's not just farms. They spray the vegetation (or not) on the roads,almost all of the parks get sprayed big time. Any place not sprayed, if there is any traffic the cars carry enough herbicide so that I can taste it. Water - rain, fog, sprinklers - makes it worse if it has ever been sprayed there. I am not able to do research and can not get any one to help me with it. I would love to live on the north coast somewhere but so much seems to be parks that gets sprayed. If I can go somewhere that I can recover some (if I do that) I can research for some place better, but right now I can't co much. Apparently the amount of herbicide is much less than what will bother a human. Of course, it is safe as table salt so shouldn't bother anyone no matter how much.

    At least the cleaning products are easier to avoid, just don't go in any where :D

    What about geothermal? That sounds fairly easy, like drilling a well??? Wouldn't that work most everywhere?

    Thank you so much all.
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,333 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Solar in NorthWest Washington State
    FreeBrrd wrote: »
    ...

    What about geothermal? That sounds fairly easy, like drilling a well??? Wouldn't that work most everywhere? ....

    Geothermal, even for small power, only needs a well down deep enough to hit superheated rock. (several thousand feet) And all that hot steam coming up (you pump cold water down, and steam comes up, maybe) has all sorts of nasty minerals that clog up the turbines, and so more nasty chemicals are used to keep the crud off the gear.

    Maybe solar hot (warm) water is going to be all you can manage. At least you are able to tollerate EMF fields (radio & computer signals)
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • FreeBrrdFreeBrrd Solar Expert Posts: 116 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Solar in NorthWest Washington State

    I really need to find a means of powering a refrigerator and power tools to build my home.

    It would sort of suck if the only place where I can tolerate the air, I can not have any source of power.

    Even if folks figure out how bad RoundUp is, it would take years for it to go away after the use was stopped.

    Thanks all, think that's about it until I go see if I can even tolerate the air there. If I can't the solar or other power there doesn't matter. Not sure what you do . Not when you can no longer live in earth's atmosphere. Not too jazzed about maybe having to live in an enclosed bubble. I;m sort of an outdoor person. I love wind & rain.
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,333 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Solar in NorthWest Washington State
    FreeBrrd wrote: »
    ....even if folks figure out how bad RoundUp is, it would take years for it to go away after the use was stopped.....

    odd, reports show about 60 day half life once it hits the dirt. (3-130 days, depending on soil microbes which break it down)
    http://www.cdpr.ca.gov/docs/emon/pubs/fatememo/glyphos.pdf
    other reports show it's the "inert" ingredients:
    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=weed-whacking-herbicide-p
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • FreeBrrdFreeBrrd Solar Expert Posts: 116 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Solar in NorthWest Washington State

    Are those the same reports that say that it is safe as table salt?

    I'm not a scientist. I am not able to test for the chemicals. I am just sensitive enough that I can taste the chemicals in the air and feel the effects. The amounts that seriously bother me are "less than what will effect humans".

    This is part of why it is so difficult to find out where it is being used. Folks think it is safe and folks think it goes away so why admit it's being used. But also, in the few places that I have found that actually do not spray, the vehicles carry enough. Even places that do not seem to get much traffic. The only places I have not been able to taste or feel herbicides in the past almost two years (since April 2010) have been when I have gone to the beach and walked away from the parking lot. None of the places have been places I could stay very long, definitely not over night. They are also places that I can no longer walk safely as my motorskills are too off and I would fall off the path.

    The main reason that I feel that the chemicals are not going away is that they keep getting much stronger. I realize that folks keep spraying, but I guess that they are spraying about as much this year as last, but the air is much worse.
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,333 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Solar in NorthWest Washington State
    Are those the same reports that say that it is safe as table salt?

    Whoo said table salt was safe :p No, those were links to two established sources that disagreed with each other :confused:

    But serioisly, maybe it's something else. Roadside spraying is done on the dirt edges, beyond the pavement. Very few cars wander that far off the road, and I don't see much "tracking" of that happening. Maybe it's fuel additives or something.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 29,349 admin
    Re: Solar in NorthWest Washington State

    As part of the "greening" of gasoline (oxygen additives, alcohol, etc.) has been the dramatic increase in the use of MTBE (as a alcohol alternative).

    Apparently a pretty nasty chemical (even compared to gasoline). And it has been badly polluting our ground water in California...

    The government has been reducing the amount of MTBE in gasoline (slowly)--So I don't know what is allowed these days.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • FreeBrrdFreeBrrd Solar Expert Posts: 116 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Solar in NorthWest Washington State

    This has pretty much been ny entire life since April 2010 as I can't do much else (except read "romance" novels :D I can't describe my processes of figuring out what what was and what was not causing the problems, but I am very sure that it is the herbicides and not fuel, exhaust, stuff from refineries, etc. I have really paid attention to when, where I am bothered or not. I can taste the stuff in the air. I can tell the difference between exhaust and herbicides. The cleaning products/air fresheners/sanitizers I can tell as well. Possibly because I have always pretty much just avoided all of them because I know I react to most of them.

    FYI. I do clean, just not with "cleaning products". I use vinegar, baking soda, & steam.

    Hopefully, if I get to NW WA, I will be able to recover enough to do research and find a place where solar will be more efficient where I can buy a bit of land. I can't do any research now so just picked the first likely (only) place I found.
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,311 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Solar in NorthWest Washington State

    i'm semi curious why you decided in the northern direction to go as many consider the desert areas moreso as there are less farms and less of the things you wish to avoid, plus you'd get more sun. i'm not knocking your choice or that area of the country, but when given a choice it makes me wonder.
  • FreeBrrdFreeBrrd Solar Expert Posts: 116 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Solar in NorthWest Washington State

    Because of the rain forest. Those are what create clean air. I also don't like heat, but that is chemical related so if I get away from chemicals, I should be able to tolerate the heat better.

    I just found that part of my vision problem is wet macular degeneration so I also need more light to see. I may have to go somewhere with more sunlight.

    The biggest part of this decision is that I can't do any research. I can't do searches online. If I try to read something, by the third paragraph I have forgotten the first paragraph. I have tried to get folks (like my family) to help with no luck so I have to just pick a place to go. "RainForest" looked like the best bet. I've tried looking on "LandWatch" but I can't comprehend enough. I looked at some places (online) in Arizona, but no trees. I need trees, plants, water. Probably someplace in Colorado or Montana would be great. I'm just not able to look. If I get someplace where I can recover some, I should be able to research more.

    With the loss of sight being permanant, I'm not sure how much I can build. Doctor says I can use power says, just to wear eye protection. I wonder if that is to keep the bits of fingers out of my eyes when they get into the saw :blush: I'm not going to be able to afford to have someone else build for me. Guess if I moved to Arizona I can probably find someone to help with the solar ;)

    Thank you.
  • solar_davesolar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,343 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Solar in NorthWest Washington State

    There is lots of pine forest in Northern AZ, not quite so hot either. Lots of out of the way places as well, like the Indian reservations. Great for Solar too.
  • FreeBrrdFreeBrrd Solar Expert Posts: 116 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Solar in NorthWest Washington State

    If you send me a town or two or counties I can try to look at them.

    I probably can stay in a RV park or campground while I look.

    Can us "pale face' folks live on reservations? I very well may be part Native American, but my father was adopted and than I was also adopted and the information sort of got lost. He has passed away so can't find out much. My facial structure looks Native American.

    I would like a little colder - some snow.

    Thank you
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,311 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Solar in NorthWest Washington State

    colder is easy to do as you don't necessarily have to move north to get that as higher elevations and mountainous areas are notably colder. for example, mt washington in new hampshire can often show conditions typical of areas in alaska.

    here's the current weather there.
    http://www.weather.com/weather/today/Mount+Washington+NH+USNH0154

    research by you will show many other areas in higher elevations even in southern locals to be to your liking. even our host's site is often equal to or colder than here in pittsburgh as right now flagstaff is in the 30s and pittsburgh is in the 60s.8):D
    edit to add that currently flagstaff is 2 degrees colder than mt washington.

    a side benefit to that elevation could also be more potential solar power reaching the ground as it has less atmosphere to pass through.
  • jagecjagec Solar Expert Posts: 157 ✭✭
    Re: Solar in NorthWest Washington State

    Depending on your personal situation, you might have some luck expanding your search beyond the borders of the US. There are some gorgeous, unspoiled, remote parts of the world out there that could easily satisfy all of your criteria, AND be great places for solar.

    Or micro-hydro...for a long time my folks had their power provided by this river. 24-hour power, very little battery capacity needed.
    ecuador032.jpg
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,311 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Solar in NorthWest Washington State
    jagec wrote: »
    Depending on your personal situation, you might have some luck expanding your search beyond the borders of the US. There are some gorgeous, unspoiled, remote parts of the world out there that could easily satisfy all of your criteria, AND be great places for solar.

    Or micro-hydro...for a long time my folks had their power provided by this river. 24-hour power, very little battery capacity needed.

    there could be a problem with freebrrd moving out of the country unless freebrrd has lots of money to start with for bad health conditions like that would put one on social security and this government will not send checks for you to live in another country, at least that i am aware of anyway.:roll:
  • SlappySlappy Solar Expert Posts: 251 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Solar in NorthWest Washington State
    niel wrote: »
    there could be a problem with freebrrd moving out of the country unless freebrrd has lots of money to start with for conditions like that would put one on social security and this government will not send checks for you to live in another country, at least that i am aware of anyway.:roll:


    http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/512/~/receiving-social-security-benefits-when-living-overseas.
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,311 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Solar in NorthWest Washington State

    learn something every day. i can't say i agree with it though.:grr
  • jagecjagec Solar Expert Posts: 157 ✭✭
    Re: Solar in NorthWest Washington State
    niel wrote: »
    learn something every day. i can't say i agree with it though.:grr

    If it's any consolation, they tax you on your overseas income as well.

    Unless you're a multi-billion dollar company of course.
  • FreeBrrdFreeBrrd Solar Expert Posts: 116 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Solar in NorthWest Washington State

    This is reply to a bunch of these.

    Doesn't snow improve the solar a bit with the reflection. That's my reason for putting glitter on my white camper roof (besides that it cheers me up).

    Elevation is fine. I don't like driving up & down steep roads, but I won't be able to drive on roads anyway so probably the higher the better.

    I would be open to moving out of the country. Canada had been suggested as having less chemicals. I just couldn't find if I could move there since I am not employable. I am very healthy so if I can get away from the chemicals I would not have any medical expenses except now I need a shot in the eyeball every 6 weeks (fun).

    I can't get to lots of places because I can't use public transportation. If someone has a chemical free jet, I'd be willing to go most anywhere. Or I could try a hazmat suit with oxygen tank. I absorb the chemicals through my skin so respirators don't make any difference.

    I just really need someone to find me a good place to start. No one else will be able to tell if the chemicals are there or not, but they should be able to guess fairly well. I just can't do hardly any research so I can't find places. I guess I need to stay somewhere like an rv park which would have chemicals simply because it has vehicles, but I have to live in something while I'm looking.
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,311 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Solar in NorthWest Washington State

    as far as the roof goes just white paint kept clean will do, but that won't add much in the way of reflection imho. don't try for mirrored surfaces or any extravagant efforts. snow does add to the reflected light to the pvs providing it isn't covering the pvs and is angled high to capture some of that light and help shed snow from accumulating on them.
  • FreeBrrdFreeBrrd Solar Expert Posts: 116 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Solar in NorthWest Washington State

    I painted the roof white for heat reduction. The glitter is for me. It cheers me up. Every little bit helps. I just like to say that I did it to improve the solar which the camper will probably never get. It was to power fans. Now that I generally do not want outside air in any more that I have to, fans are pretty useless. My power panel looks impressive though.

    http://www.dekatodesigns.net/camper/camperConstructionPhotos.php

    http://www.dekatodesigns.net/camper/photos/pict0863.png

    http://www.dekatodesigns.net/camper/schematic.html
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,311 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Solar in NorthWest Washington State

    i remember your little camper project. out of curiosity, just how much weight did that add to the truck? as far as the air goes, maybe filtering would be good? i'm not sure if that would go far enough to suit you though.
  • FreeBrrdFreeBrrd Solar Expert Posts: 116 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Solar in NorthWest Washington State

    Should be a bit less than 700lbs. The studs are cedar 2 x 6's ripped in half (I think). Siding and walls in 1/4" plywood. Roof and platform are a bit thicker. I ended up using "SnowRoof" on it about a month ago for water proofing. Wish I had done that at first instead of just paint. Just restained the siding in preparation for rain. I used bluejean insulation with reflective foil. It's warm, pretty quite, cool in the heat & direct sun. The cops couldn't get in :D It's starting to get worn though because my touch is so off. I am damaging things like shutters and can't repair things. I can put on the roof sealer and the stain, but I can't sand to finish the inside of the back door. I was almost done when I couldn't work on it any more. It's definitely not stealth. I've been told that I am not welcome at the local shopping mall just because it's a camper. They didn't know if I was shopping or not.
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