Power Panel - combination PV/Thermal panels

TenMile · October 2011

This looks to be an interesting technology: http://www.powerpanel.com/index.html

Combines both PV electrical production and thermal capture to power your home and provide hot water / space heating options. I guess the benefit is a single installed system rather than two unique installations.

Power Panel is a new solar panel technology that breaks the mold of traditional solar panels. Power Panel, made from recyclable materials, maximizes the capture of the sun’s energy (80%+ vs. 5%-18% for traditional PV panels alone). Power Panel addresses the real home and business energy needs. While most solar panels generate only electricity, a typical household’s total energy usage is 70% or more thermal energy (heat) and less than 30% electricity. Power Panel captures heat as well electricity to solve your total energy needs!

Looks like they have a demo installation running now in Toronto: http://www.tridel.com/ecosuite/

mike95490 · October 2011

Re: Power Panel - combination PV/Thermal panels

How well does it's thermal panel compare to other thermal ONLY panels ?

SlimDiesel · October 2011

Re: Power Panel - combination PV/Thermal panels

Its been discussed on the forum several times, although usually as a DIY project. I suppose such a combined-cycle implementation will capture more energy in total but, since the thermal collector will be bonded to the back of the PC cells to capture the insolation that is absorbed but not converted to electrons, what you gain in the temperature of the fluid loop will be somewhat at the expense of the PV conversion efficiency.

If some thermal upgrader such as a heat pump were used, this could lower the temperature of the loop input below the output temperature of a single-stage indoor heat exchanger and thus actually enhance PV conversion efficiency. For example, in winter, my GSHP's output to the loop can drop below 0degC but the 4degC return from the loop gets upgraded by refrigerant loop to about 37degC. However this adds even more cost. Also, in winter, I really wouldn't get much more benefit from PV cooling

. In summer, I wouldn't have a use for all the extra heat.

Whether the increased energy capture outweighs the increased capital cost would be the key factor. Demonstration projects are rarely economically viable on their own.

TenMile · October 2011

Re: Power Panel - combination PV/Thermal panels

Here are the specs on the PVT panel from the website:

Power Panel PVT
Construction: Enclosure TPO - EPP, anodized aluminum insert
with cover sheet low tempered glass
PV Output 125 watts
Thermal Output: 450 watts [1,530 BTU/hr]
Overall dimensions: 54.4” x 28” x 4.3” [1384 mm x 711 mm x 109 mm]
Weight: 33 lbs [15 kg]

They also post this image for a typical residential design:

tallgirl · October 2011

Re: Power Panel - combination PV/Thermal panels

That cartoon isn't worth the cost of the electrons that were murdered to display it.

PV Thermal is bad for solar panels.

TenMile · October 2011

Re: Power Panel - combination PV/Thermal panels

Personally I found the diagram helpful -- the layout they've used would be similar to my home. Gives a rough idea of the expected power and thermal production. I always find it more helpful when claims are substantiated.

Understand that heat is bad for panels -- however, in looking at their product description it sounds as though they are suggesting that the thermal transfer cools the panel, runs through a heat-exchanger type device which stores heat in a large tank of water. They "claim" that the cooling of the panel makes it more efficient (of course, that's unsubstantiated and untested on their website). That tank of water is then used to feed a DHW system, pool heating and/or a radiant heating system. Of course, if you don't need to supplement DHW, a pool or heating, then a thermal system doesn't make sense.

The PV output from those panels isn't great for their size -- but when you combine it with the Thermal and the ability to create a single footprint whole home energy/heating system it may go a long way to take a residential heating bill close to $0.

I suppose that with any type of hybrid device that combines functions it's going to be a compromise. Sort of like buying a Honda Ridgeline truck. It does some pickup truck things well but it's box is small and it doesn't tow much. It does some SUV things well but it lacks dry accessible storage. But, if you can't afford both an SUV and a Pickup and can live with the compromise, it works and sells reasonably well.

I have no idea what these panels cost so right now it's impossible to compare their solution to two standalone PV/Thermal installations. They are suggesting their installed price is $1/W for what seems to be a 16.2kW system (1.2kW PV + 15kW Thermal over 30 panels) = $16,200 = $540/panel (installed). I suppose if two separate installations of PV/Thermal provide more power, occupy the same space and install at the same or a lower price then their product doesn't make sense. However, if their price claims hold true (that they are indeed a lower cost than standalone PV/Thermal systems) their solution may make sense -- but of course these claims need to be substantiated.

SlimDiesel · October 2011

Re: Power Panel - combination PV/Thermal panels

But what are you going to heat with that 15kW thermal when all your in-the-house heat sinks are full? You need to keep that loop circulating and at a temperature that isn't hurting PV efficiency. Stop the loop flow and the transfer fluid and panel is likely to become very hot very quickly (15kW is 51,000 BTU - do the math on how fast and how high that will raise the temp of a couple hundred pounds of a water-like substance).

It seems they are not discussing the need for a thermal dump load like a honkin' great fan-forced radiator on the shady side of that garage. Or maybe that's what that wart that looks like a central A/C compressor on the side of the house is?

TenMile · October 2011

Re: Power Panel - combination PV/Thermal panels

So if I assume their output claims are true and actually apply their production output figures against the typical consumption in my home -- then the balance of production is an interesting calculation.

My home is 100% reliant on electricity today for all power, heating (heat pump) and hot water (50gal electric tank). Our average monthly consumption is ~ 2,000kWh with a peak in winter of about 2,800 and a low in summer of about 1,500.

If I assume our DHW makes up approximately 30% of our electrical consumption then I get a rough breakdown of:

DHW: 600kWh

Heat/Power: 1,400kWh

30 of their panels appear to produce about 1/3 of my power (lights, heat, etc) but 400% of my DHW needs -- now I may have miscalculated here, so input is appreciated..

PowerPanel DHW production: 450w x 30panels x 8hrs x 80% derate x 30ds = 2600kWh
PowerPanel PV production: 125w x 30 x 5hrs x 80% x 30ds = 450kWh

Roughly looking at things, their system would cut my electrical consumption in half (52.5%) assuming that my DHW consumption falls to almost 0 and the PV then supplies about 450kWh of the 1,400kWh I need.

Assuming I did an installation with 30 x 250w panels (same area):
250w x 30 x 5hrs x 80% x 30ds = 900kWh
- that's about 45% of my overall monthly requirements.

Problem is, assuming my math isn't too far off, what do I do with the extra thermally heated water?
Options: A) replace 25y/o heat pump with something that can take advantage of the extra heat in winter
b) install an outdoor hot tub and enjoy it virtually free :-)

Anyhow, I have probably made a couple of calculation errors with my assumptions above so feel free to correct me.

Power Panel - combination PV/Thermal panels

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