Xantrex Trace sw 4024 can't charge :(

System
System Posts: 2,511 admin
in Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems #1
My inverter for the last year has been working fine with a generator hooked into AC 2 input for generator as specified. Charging the batteries and sending power down the line like it should and switching over to batteries when gen runs out of gas. I have hooked up a 20A 120v plug (with the one sideways prong) so I can plug it into the gen(not sure if that was needed but a 15 amp plug didn't seem large enough). A few days ago this stopped working and every time I plug the charge cable into the generator, it blows the little breaker that is located right at the plug in, not the other larger looking breakers. I tested the AC in 2, and Neutral in 2 with a multimeter and got a 2.1v AC reading and 00 for DC, when tested to the ground, both AC2 and Neutral 2 IN show 40.4V AC. This seems off to me and may be what is blowing the breaker on the gen. Please give me any insight you might have. thank you I am using a 5000 watt Generac portable Gen and Xantrex Trace 4024 hooked up to 12 L-16 batteries
· Share on Twitter

Comments

  • Solar Guppy
    Solar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: Xantrex Trace sw 4024 can't charge :(

    Time to replace the inverter , nothing lasts forever and the SW's are well over a decade old. Don't fall for the idea of trying to have it fixed, its not worth it.
    · Share on Twitter
  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #3
    Re: Xantrex Trace sw 4024 can't charge :(

    well the inverter part still works fine, I would rather opt to fix it myself if anyone has any knowledge on what might be causing this. thank you :)
    · Share on Twitter
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #4
    Re: Xantrex Trace sw 4024 can't charge :(

    Last year there was a pretty good discussion about a failed Trace:

    Trace SW 4024 Crash, Help needed ASAP

    Hope it can help you.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
    · Share on Twitter
  • boB
    boB Solar Expert Posts: 1,032 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: Xantrex Trace sw 4024 can't charge :(

    I always give things at least a quick look to see if the problem might be something obvious. Then after a half hour or so, depending on what the heck I'm working on, I'll chuck it or try some more.

    One thing on the SWs that failed was the hair wire on the primary of the input voltage sense transformer. That used to be a point of failure that would keep them from charging. Look for obvious burnt stuff too, but the inverter is working so that's a good sign that all is not quite lost.... yet. If you could get a junker SW, you could swap out the sense transformer.

    boB
    · Share on Twitter
  • RCinFLA
    RCinFLA Solar Expert Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭✭
    #6
    Re: Xantrex Trace sw 4024 can't charge :(

    You may have the max ACin amps on AC2 set too high. Set it below the maximum supply capability of generator. If you have a 240 vac gen and only loading one 120vac side keep amps to less then little over half of generator's continuous output power capability.

    Other possibility is welded relay contacts. If that, you should see 120vac on AC2in when inverter is running on battery or grid connected via AC1. Be careful of your generator male plug. You should always put a breaker between AC2in and gen plug should you don't turn on breaker until gen is plugged in.
    · Share on Twitter
  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #7
    Re: Xantrex Trace sw 4024 can't charge :(

    Thank you very much for the information, I do believe it is welded relay bcuz I did not have a breaker between gen and AC2 IN :( But all is well. I purchased a 25 amp 24v charger with smart charge technology and hooked it into the battery junction box, all seems to be working well. My only concern is, does it hurt anything to be running off of inverter power while generator charges batteries? I'm assuming no Bcuz that's how it works with panels. If anyone has any advice, I am open to it thanx :) at least now I know why and what went wrong
    · Share on Twitter
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #8
    Re: Xantrex Trace sw 4024 can't charge :(

    It is less efficient to run from generator to battery charger to battery to inverter to AC... But it will work OK (assuming you have enough current from the charger to eventually recharge the battery bank).

    You can get manual or automatic transfer switches that are not too expensive... For example:

    wind-sun_2179_72652975
    The ITS-30R is a relay-based automatic transfer switch rated for 30A AC power systems, and provides switching between two separate AC power sources, such as auto-switching between generator and AC shore power. Use in conjunction with another ITS unit for additional power source switching. The ITS provides a 20-30 second delay before switching power. This allows the generator to stabilize before the power is delivered, avoiding damaging power fluctuations to your load.

    The ITS-30R provides automatic power switching between two separate 120 volt AC input sources, including powercords, onboard generators, or onboard inverters. ITS will sense the presence of available supplies and automatically select the proper one. The ITS can be installed at the electrical entry of the on the line side of the main distribution panel, or it can installed on the load side of the panel between the panel and a sub panel, allowing switching for either entire electrical load or only designated circuits.

    MAX. POWERCORD SIZE: 30A

    MAX. GENERATOR: 4 KW

    MAX. MAIN BREAKER: 30A Single pole
    For $60, not bad.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
    · Share on Twitter
  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #9
    Re: Xantrex Trace sw 4024 can't charge :(

    wow bill, thank you for the info, that really helps! what a good deal on the transfer, a manual transfer is like 250 bucks or more. seems odd really.
    · Share on Twitter
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #10
    Re: Xantrex Trace sw 4024 can't charge :(

    Manual transfer switches usually include some number of circuit breakers and drive the costs way up. The above transfer switch is just a relay (with time delay) and has no protective devices--so is much cheaper to build.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
    · Share on Twitter
  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    #11
    Re: Xantrex Trace sw 4024 can't charge :(

    If the relays are welded you need some way to isolate the inverter from the genset when the inverter takes over. Otherwise you'll be driving voltage back into the generator which won't be good for the windings.
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
    · Share on Twitter
  • RCinFLA
    RCinFLA Solar Expert Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭✭
    #12
    Re: Xantrex Trace sw 4024 can't charge :(

    The SW controller voltage sense for the generator is on the AC2in terminals. The inverter controller must sense this voltage first to allow the inverter to syncronize to the generator (phase and voltage) before it closes the AC2in relay. You could put a transfer switch into AC1in but you have to make sure the inverter releases from grid supply first so inverter starts a new phase/voltage locking process, otherwise you will get the same overcurrent result.

    The relay is a 12vdc coil model 375P Deltrol 21041-81. Doesn't have to be the 'P' version, just clip the plastic mounting tabs on other versions. You can still find these around. Finding one with other then a 12vdc coil is easier but you have to swap with your original 12vdc relay coil. If you are more creative you can burnish the contacts on existing relay.

    http://www.galco.com/scripts/cgiip.exe/wa/wcat/itemdtl.r?listtype=Catalog&pnum=21012-81-DELT

    http://www.abcelectronicsmn.com/deltrol-controls-375p-3pdt-relay-120vac-coil-30amp-28vdc-30a-15a-300-600vac.aspx (wrong coil voltage, but cheap)
    · Share on Twitter

Categories