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SirSparks
SirSparks Solar Expert Posts: 43
Just wanted to say Hi, no questions at present just Absorbing (may be past the Bulk stage?)

2 days ago finished installing 8 x 85 watt (soon to be 12) panels with OB MP80, 3 x 195 AHr generic lead acids, Power Max 75 amp 3 stage charger, 1 400 watt Pure Sine wave inverter and one 2,000 watt Vector inverter. Am very impressed in the 2 days it has been up and running.

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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
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    Re: Hi

    Welcome to the forum.

    Any question you do have, ask! You'll probably get six different answers. At least one of them will be right for you. :p
  • SirSparks
    SirSparks Solar Expert Posts: 43
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    Re: Hi

    Thank you Cariboocoat. Does anyone have a list of expected watt outputs by location etc.?

    In my 3 days up and running my 8 x 85 Watt PV's have given 2.3/2.0/2.3 Kwhr per day with a max at any time of 0.49 Kw.
    This is Floirida with some High Cumulus cloud. PV's poiintng due South and matchng the Latitude (28 degrees) for Fall season.

    Any imnmediate thoughts ?

    Pete.
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
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    Re: Hi

    You can get a pretty good idea what to expect from your array using the PV Watts program: http://www.nrel.gov/rredc/pvwatts/

    This year it seems weather is making a mockery of the historical statistics. :roll:
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: Hi

    see what you get on a cloudless day as clouds won't allow a good indication of how your system is doing.
  • SirSparks
    SirSparks Solar Expert Posts: 43
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    Re: Hi

    Thanks guys.

    That site is showing me 115 Kw for the month of Sept or 3.8 Kw per day.
    Annual total 1,414 Kw.

    Looks like I am presently well down.
  • RCinFLA
    RCinFLA Solar Expert Posts: 1,484 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: Hi
    SirSparks wrote: »
    Thanks guys.

    That site is showing me 115 Kw for the month of Sept or 3.8 Kw per day.
    Annual total 1,414 Kw.

    Looks like I am presently well down.

    Looks like you figured out what the nrel site number mean. They are equivalent hours of full sun (1000 watts/m^2) per day. They take into account statistical average of weather. For example where I live in S. Fla. June numbers are lower then May numbers even though the sun is higher in the sky due to more statistical clouds/rain amount in month of June.

    Also good to see effects of panel tilt angle versus month of year.
  • SirSparks
    SirSparks Solar Expert Posts: 43
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    Re: Hi
    RCinFLA wrote: »
    Looks like you figured out what the nrel site number mean. They are equivalent hours of full sun (1000 watts/m^2) per day. They take into account statistical average of weather. For example where I live in S. Fla. June numbers are lower then May numbers even though the sun is higher in the sky due to more statistical clouds/rain amount in month of June.

    Also good to see effects of panel tilt angle versus month of year.

    Yes at Lattitude 28 (Plant City Fl) I shall be setting my tilts for 28 Spring/Fall, 43 Winter. zero Summer (early) and 5 late summer to squeeze every watt for my AC.

    Also because of AC usage I suspect it would be better next summer to move 15 degrees West os South ( 195 degrees) for maximum afternoon power.

    My only obvious (to me) screw up so far is choosing car batteries to save money; Auto Craft made by Johnson Controls. I contacted their Tech Support for 4 level charging volts/times and got pure BS values as an answer.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,439 admin
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    Re: Hi

    You probably found that pv Watts only goes down to 1 kW array size (minimum array). So, you have to play with the numbers.

    Next, what are you using for derating factor? Typically, 0.52 derating (yes 1/2 of rated panel numbers) is a good starting point for off-grid systems for the "average" power available day to day/month/year.

    And, note that your daily generation will only roll up AH/kWH into your battery bank until it is near 100% full... At that point, the charge controller "turns off" (or cranks back on output voltage) and it will stop totalizing power.

    So, the daily charging figures may be limited by your daily load figures (light load days will log less power from the charge controller).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • SirSparks
    SirSparks Solar Expert Posts: 43
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    Re: Hi
    BB. wrote: »
    You probably found that pv Watts only goes down to 1 kW array size (minimum array). So, you have to play with the numbers.

    Next, what are you using for derating factor? Typically, 0.52 derating (yes 1/2 of rated panel numbers) is a good starting point for off-grid systems for the "average" power available day to day/month/year.

    And, note that your daily generation will only roll up AH/kWH into your battery bank until it is near 100% full... At that point, the charge controller "turns off" (or cranks back on output voltage) and it will stop totalizing power.

    So, the daily charging figures may be limited by your daily load figures (light load days will log less power from the charge controller).

    -Bill

    Hi Bill. In summer at least I just swap AC from shore/generator power to inverter so no problem with cranking back.

    Regarding derating factor it seems that the value 0f 72% I read in a thread here somwhere here seems to fit my situation but I may be misunderstanding? if 52% is correct then it is disppointing, I was calculating like this;

    Average Tampa insolation 5.8 hours, my max theoretical PV output 680 watts, max seen PV output (in 3 days) 490 watts = 72% max and therefore expected average 490 x 5.8 per day = 2,840 watts per day. Am I over ambitious?

    I just checked and see a 570 watt max for today even though it rained all day and total was only 1Kw so I see numbers on a day to day basis mean very little !!!
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
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    Re: Hi

    I think you may be mixing up the 77% typical panel-to-battery efficiency rating we use for ball park calculations on off-grid systems and the over-all 52% typical rating used for panel-to-AC Watts on grid-tie systems.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,439 admin
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    Re: Hi

    77% accounts for solar panel derating * charge controller efficiency.

    52% account for solar panel derating * controller eff * battery eff * inverter efficiency.

    So, the "typical" maximum power from the solar array out the charge controller is around 77% (sometimes better, sometimes worse middle of the day).

    52% is the overall end to end typical efficiency of a solar pv system from solar array to AC power out the inverter.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • SirSparks
    SirSparks Solar Expert Posts: 43
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    Re: Hi
    BB. wrote: »
    77% accounts for solar panel derating * charge controller efficiency.

    52% account for solar panel derating * controller eff * battery eff * inverter efficiency.

    So, the "typical" maximum power from the solar array out the charge controller is around 77% (sometimes better, sometimes worse middle of the day).

    52% is the overall end to end typical efficiency of a solar pv system from solar array to AC power out the inverter.

    -Bill
    Thanks guys.

    I have seen `83% max from panels to Charge controller output. althougth only once.
    I see what you mean now about 52% for the entire system asnd it sounds reasonable although a bit disappointing. I would need to invest in a second KWhr meter to check and I don't think that is worth the $80 at present.

    On that subject I had TWO Killa-watt meters both failed within 48 hours, I now have an extremely accurate EKM meter which I am very happy with.