Sanyo Split system? for off grid

Jcrabtree · August 2011

What type system to run this: Sanyo Single Split systems (3,000-9,000 BTU) couple hours a day @3,000btu Cabin only 750ish sf. - Live in Tennessee been around 97 for the past 50 days

fixing to start building my system over the next few month and if I can get to run off it would be a great help.

Dave Angelini · August 2011

Re: Sanyo Split system? for off grid

You should go back and seriously read the postings done on this. The strategy will not work in places that do not cool off to below 70F at night or are extremely humid. The strategy for offgrid would not work in many places unless you ran a generator. The best applications are at altitude or in places that cool after sunset.

A tracked or multiple SE & SW arrays that can supply power from sunrise to sunset will allow one to avoid running a generator.
The first threads have some observations added in July 2011

http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?t=5104&page=22

techntrek · August 2011

Re: Sanyo Split system? for off grid

He said it would only be for a couple of hours a day, similar home size, and he would be using the low setting. Sounds about the same as your situation, as long as he does what you do and only run it once the batteries are on float.

jcrabtree, do you have grid power available? On the hottest days you may need to cool things down on a higher setting using grid power, then switch over to run on low.

Dave Angelini · August 2011

Re: Sanyo Split system? for off grid

techntrek wrote: »

He said it would only be for a couple of hours a day, similar home size, and he would be using the low setting. Sounds about the same as your situation, as long as he does what you do and only run it once the batteries are on float.

jcrabtree, do you have grid power available? On the hottest days you may need to cool things down on a higher setting using grid power, then switch over to run on low.

Which is why I told him to read the whole strategy. What you are proposing will not work!

techntrek · August 2011

Re: Sanyo Split system? for off grid

Now that I've re-read your first post on the other thread I see his place is less than half the size of yours (1700 vs 700), same outside temps (100 vs 97), same size unit. With the smaller house size he's in a better position to use your strategy than you are - as in, run it all day to keep it cool from the start.

He's asking what size PV system will run it. As long as its sized right, why won't it work? And if he has the grid available he only has to size an off-grid system to handle the constant load with the mini split on low - which will be fine spring and fall and 3/4 of the summer.

Edit: The first post above looks odd, like maybe its been edited. Maybe what it says now is not what you read at first?

icarus · August 2011

Re: Sanyo Split system? for off grid

Just as an aside, we have had very hot weather (humid too) this summer. I bought a 5000 btu window unit. It will run and start on a EU 1000 Honda. I have run it several nights, with the bedroom closed off and it gets the BR down to an acceptable temp for sleeping. I end up running the genny for about 3 hours and, I n spite of burning a 1/2 litre fuel,, it is a godsend for the few short weeks of really hot nights.

It draws ~500 watts running. To get it to start, I run it fan only, then turn it on low coo, get it spinning, then switch to high cool, all with the genny with the Eco throttle off. Once it is up and running, I can turn the Eco throttle off, the genny slows down a bunch, and I have enough power to run the paddle fans in the rest of the house off the genny.

Tony

Blackcherry04 · August 2011

Re: Sanyo Split system? for off grid

icarus wrote: »

Just as an aside, we have had very hot weather (humid too) this summer. I bought a 5000 btu window unit. It will run and start on a EU 1000 Honda. I have run it several nights, with the bedroom closed off and it gets the BR down to an acceptable temp for sleeping. I end up running the genny for about 3 hours and, I n spite of burning a 1/2 litre fuel,, it is a godsend for the few short weeks of really hot nights.

It draws ~500 watts running. To get it to start, I run it fan only, then turn it on low coo, get it spinning, then switch to high cool, all with the genny with the Eco throttle off. Once it is up and running, I can turn the Eco throttle off, the genny slows down a bunch, and I have enough power to run the paddle fans in the rest of the house off the genny.

Tony

I do the same thing, but I have it so the compressor starts first and have a "delay on make " timer cube set with a 20 second delay before the fan starts. It gives the generator time to settle down and is automatic. Easy to install, just cut one wire to the fan and install inline.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ICM-Controls-Delay-Make-Timer-Univ-Voltage-ICM102B-/200627552084?_trksid=p4340.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D15%26pmod%3D120087710441%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D1808698925858801323

This is for 1 amp, they also make them with 8-30 amp relay built in.

There is a wall plug thermostat called the Lux win 100. It turns a wall socket into a thermostat switched outlet. It does Heat and Cool and will turn on and off a window unit, heater or a fan or anything 15 amps or less. I have 2 of them and very happy the way they work. They really help on a inverter.

http://www.amazon.com/WIN100-Heating-Cooling-Programmable-Thermostat/dp/B000E7NYY8

Cariboocoot · August 2011

Re: Sanyo Split system? for off grid

Couple of technical points for anyone reading this thread;

Honda EU1000i produces approximately 800 Watts max.
Not all 5,000 btu A/C units are the same.
So there is the possibility that icarus's plan won't work for everyone.

E-bay links tend to disappear without notice. Blackcherry04 linked to: ICM Controls, Delay on Make Timer. Universal Voltage 15-240 VAC/VDC 5-/60 Hz model ICM102B

Dave Angelini · August 2011

Re: Sanyo Split system? for off grid

techntrek wrote: »

Now that I've re-read your first post on the other thread I see his place is less than half the size of yours (1700 vs 700), same outside temps (100 vs 97), same size unit. With the smaller house size he's in a better position to use your strategy than you are - as in, run it all day to keep it cool from the start.

He's asking what size PV system will run it. As long as its sized right, why won't it work? And if he has the grid available he only has to size an off-grid system to handle the constant load with the mini split on low - which will be fine spring and fall and 3/4 of the summer.

Edit: The first post above looks odd, like maybe its been edited. Maybe what it says now is not what you read at first?

I could tell you the answer but I will let you think about it. How would running a 9000 btu heat pump at 1/5 or less of it's output, for a couple hours a day, work out when it is 97F?

Seven · August 2011

Re: Sanyo Split system? for off grid

I know! I know! Pick me! Pick me!

JESSICA · August 2011

Re: Sanyo Split system? for off grid

Cariboocoot wrote: »

Couple of technical points for anyone reading this thread;

Honda EU1000i produces approximately 800 Watts max.
Not all 5,000 btu A/C units are the same.
So there is the possibility that icarus's plan won't work for everyone.

You are right:

I have a 5,000 btu unit, sears cheapest model ($109 in Puerto Rico), and an small generator, 1,800 watts American Power. The generator will not run the ac unit, even using Icarus's strategy (turning power up in steps; as soon as I turn the compressor on, the generator goes off).

Photowhit · August 2011

Re: Sanyo Split system? for off grid

JESSICA wrote: »

I have a 5,000 btu unit, sears cheapest model ($109 in Puerto Rico), and an small generator, 1,800 watts American Power. The generator will not run the ac unit, even using Icarus's strategy (turning power up in steps; as soon as I turn the compressor on, the generator goes off).

I'm pretty surprised, perhaps 1800 watts is the max rate, I have the 5300 btu, also a sears, digital w/energy saver, it was about $40 more than the cheapest unit. I have run it on a 1400 watt inverter and currently on a Prosine 1800 watt inverter, which has a somewhat low max.

Looks like I've survived this summer on my almost 6 year old 4 - 6 volt golf cart batteries. I'm currently "load shifting, I did my shopping and I'm currently doing laundry, I ran the AC until I left at 4pm and the batteries are fully charged. and the tiny cabin is dry if not too cool, I'll run the AC for 4 or more hours tonight, it'll kick off during the first hour Likely when the energy saver switches the thermostt from 74 to 76 after the first 1/2 hour.

My traction battery(forklift battery) arrives tommorow, I hope, I hope....

Jcrabtree · August 2011

Re: Sanyo Split system? for off grid

Have a yamaha EF3000iSEB 3,000 with 500boost for the first 10sec - runs 19 hours on 3gal - thought about using Solar Chill DC-Powered Evaporative Cooler - 1412XP - just needed something for I wont melt.

Here my plans for my first system:
Kyocera KD135 - x6 with room to add more
Rogue or MidNite Solar Classic 150 MPPT
Outback Power VFX2812 2800 Watt
AGM: PVX-2560T 256AH or PVX-3050T 305AH x2 or x4

Xantrex LinkLITE Dual Battery Monitor 0-35 Volts
Power Max PM3-series Regulated Battery Charger - if needed

techntrek · August 2011

Re: Sanyo Split system? for off grid

Dave Sparks wrote: »

I could tell you the answer but I will let you think about it. How would running a 9000 btu heat pump at 1/5 or less of it's output, for a couple hours a day, work out when it is 97F?

I gave you the answer in my post you quoted, its the very same solution you use.

Dave Angelini · August 2011

Re: Sanyo Split system? for off grid

Jcrabtree wrote: »

Have a yamaha EF3000iSEB 3,000 with 500boost for the first 10sec - runs 19 hours on 3gal - thought about using Solar Chill DC-Powered Evaporative Cooler - 1412XP - just needed something for I wont melt.

Here my plans for my first system:
Kyocera KD135 - x6 with room to add more
Rogue or MidNite Solar Classic 150 MPPT
Outback Power VFX2812 2800 Watt
AGM: PVX-2560T 256AH or PVX-3050T 305AH x2 or x4

Xantrex LinkLITE Dual Battery Monitor 0-35 Volts
Power Max PM3-series Regulated Battery Charger - if needed

You can do anything with a big enough generator! My strategy is not based on using a generator, My customers are looking for that and this is a solution that really was not available until Sanyo produced this unit.

I like to give back to this forum and always try to recommend the host Wind & Sun. I also am a capitalist and believe I offer extreme value to my customers.

We only go where the power lines don't !

icarus · August 2011

Re: Sanyo Split system? for off grid

Dave Sparks wrote: »

You can do anything with a big enough generator! My strategy is not based on using a generator, My customers are looking for that and this is a solution that really was not available until Sanyo produced this unit.

I like to give back to this forum and always try to recommend the host Wind & Sun. I also am a capitalist and believe I offer extreme value to my customers.

We only go where the power lines don't !

Indeed, you can do anything with a big enough genny. That said, you can also do anything with a big enough PV system! My point is, to try to use the most cost effective tool for the job.

For me to design and build a system around the 5 days (or even 20 days) a year when I have to run A/C off the Eu 1000 (or what ever) doesn't make a lot of financial sense, especially since I have the genny anyway. The 10 litres of fuel I might burn, might cost be $15 (at todays price) . By contrast, to build a PV/battery system to do the same might cost a couple of grand. If I had to use the A/C 30 or 50 days per year, the equation might make sense.

I have used the same logic to power my shops. Since I own and use portable gennies on remote construction sites, I use the same for my shop. I burn a few gallons of fuel per year, (maybe $200) but I have up to 5 kw of power available as needed. I can run what ever genny I need to for the task at hand. A 1kw for small tools, up to the bigger ones for the planer or big grinder etc.

Once again, to build a PV system to cover these bigger loads would be much more expensive,, and not cost effective. If I worked in the shop all day every day, it would be a different story, but most of my work is off site.

Tony

Jcrabtree · August 2011

Re: Sanyo Split system? for off grid

Thanks for all the input - don't know where everyone lives but gas here is around 3.65g pretty much wanted to stay away from using the genny till I really need it. As for power-lines thought I could get it - seem like now I have to cross 2 other folks and clear a 80ft wide path thru there trees, waiting to here back from them - I'm pretty much SoL I believe.

waynefromnscanada · August 2011

Re: Sanyo Split system? for off grid

Jcrabtree wrote: »

gas here is around 3.65g

Ha! Consider yourself lucky. Gas here in Nova Scotia has been hanging around $5.80 a gal.

Seven · August 2011

Re: Sanyo Split system? for off grid

30 days of A/C a year. WOW. I think I may be the inverse. I have been sunburned on Jan 1st before because I took my shirt off due to the heat. A buddy I camp with runs a decent sized window unit into his tent and uses a very loud 3500w genny to do it. I have been looking into the honda EU2000 and will probably get it and see if it will power the backup window units we have.

I figure that the EU2000, with the companion, should handle almost all of my needs for that type of thing even if I end up with one of the mini-splits.

Dave Angelini · August 2011

Re: Sanyo Split system? for off grid

icarus wrote: »

Indeed, you can do anything with a big enough genny. That said, you can also do anything with a big enough PV system! My point is, to try to use the most cost effective tool for the job.

Once again, to build a PV system to cover these bigger loads would be much more expensive,, and not cost effective. If I worked in the shop all day every day, it would be a different story, but most of my work is off site.

Tony

Almost every case is different offgrid. Most of my clients are in homes in the southwest and are full time offgrid. The cost of not being a slave to a generator is a price that they are willing to pay. I pretty much insist on it also!;)

You would not believe the different ways people read that thread and think that they can run a small split heat pump on 2 Costco solar panels by going outside and "turning" them. There are dozens of e-mails. Maybe I need Bill as a ghost writer? Wonder what he would charge?:roll:

lotek · August 2011

Re: Sanyo Split system? for off grid

check out this unit http://www.portableacshopping.com/9000btuminisplitac-inverter.html its around 2 amps on low with 22 seer Im not the expert here but Im sure one of the experts could tell you off the top of his/her head, just how many watts you need to produce 3/7/9 amps an hr.
If I had to guess Id say 4 210w panels would do it but then I can never figure out all the conversions form 18.5v to 110v etc.

12 fixed sun 210 panels/16 225AH gulfcart batteries/ XW6048, controller, control panel. Im on float by 10AM in Aug.
location South Ga.

techntrek · August 2011

Re: Sanyo Split system? for off grid

According to specs its a 115 volt unit, 220 watts on low, 700 on medium, 1100 on high. BTUs 11100, 9500, 3200.

22 SEER is the highest rating I've seen for a 120 volt unit. Usually you have to jump to 240 volts to get into the 20's.

Sanyo Split system? for off grid

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