What "toys" (electronic meters/equipment/etc.) would you recommend?

BB.
BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,631 admin
in Advanced Solar Electric Technical Forum #1
How about a thread where we list all of the basic and advanced electronic meters and other tools that people may find useful when working with Conservation and Solar power... Some examples that I suggest:

Kill-a-Watt meter (120 VAC 15 amp) power meter
TED The Energy Detective (whole house AC energy monitors)
Battery Monitors (Victron is another with good reputation)
DC/AC Current Clamp Meter (inexpensive ~$60)
DC Amp*Hour / WattHour meter (Watts Up; Doc Wattson)
www.dso.seeedstudio.com (1 and two channel Iphone sized Oscilloscopes)

I ran across this small $130 DC Amp*Hour/WattHour/battery monitor/meter in a Ham Magazine (QST--Don't know anything about it--But it sounds very interesting. Includes a USB computer interface (with Windows Software) and Non-volatile memory stores more than 174,000 data points (over 4 months worth of data @ 1 point/minute) without [external] power.

PowerCheck (60 volts @ 40 amps maximum)

Anyone else want to add/discuss their favorite "tools" (above suggestions or others) for Solar?

-Bill
Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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Comments

  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: What "toys" (electronic meters/equipment/etc.) would you recommend?

    Shall we rank them by how essential they are?

    Personally I think everyone should have a Kill-A-Watt or similar meter just to check their power use and learn what to turn off or replace. Regardless of any intentions in the RE field they may have.

    As for what you absolutely need, the Digital Multimeter is more important than anything else. Followed closely by a clamp-on Amp meter in case the DM is out of range.

    Beyond that it becomes more esoteric, and divides into "tools for construction/repair" and "tools for monitoring/operation".

    The more cynical among us would include "assorted size hammers for when things go wrong" and "a good bottle of Scotch for when things go wrong, or right". :p
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  • Joe_B
    Joe_B Solar Expert Posts: 318 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #3
    Re: What "toys" (electronic meters/equipment/etc.) would you recommend?

    Lets not forget about the venerable hydrometer for FLA's
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,631 admin
    #4
    Re: What "toys" (electronic meters/equipment/etc.) would you recommend?

    If you have a favorite--please feel free to include links and/or definitions too.

    For example, here is a good tool that combines Hammers+Electrical Wiring:

    Hammer Crimp Tool for Large Terminal Lugs
    wind-sun_2167_17459981 This simple, inexpensive crimping tool can be used to crimp connectors on #8 through #4/0 AWG wire. Spring loaded pin locks in ... the pin holds the connector securely during crimping. Use with a hammer or vice. Though not quite as easy as the professional production...

    What could go wrong? :p

    Here is a Specific Gravity Hydrometer (~$30 from our host)[update to Freas model per Vic's recommendations]:
    wind-sun_2165_39466Freas HD99M Precision Hydrometer
    Regular Price: $35.00


    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: What "toys" (electronic meters/equipment/etc.) would you recommend?

    Great topic Bill!

    I might avoid the Brady Hydrometer, tho. It looks neat, and I did buy one. I did not order the one with the thermometer built-in, but that was the one that was the one shipped anyway. Thought the way the thermometer was done was clever, but it electrolyte started leaking into the thermo chamber after the first use. And, in time, the red Silicone-like rubber for the tip and even the bulb started to trun black, which made me worry about contanimating the electrolyte of the batteries.

    The recent Freas Hydromteres that the site host carries are usually good. Would avoid the one with the built-in thermometer, tho.

    Thanks again, BB, Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,631 admin
    #6
    Re: What "toys" (electronic meters/equipment/etc.) would you recommend?

    Thank you Vic--I remembered you said that before in another thread... :blush:

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • 2manytoyz
    2manytoyz Solar Expert Posts: 373 ✭✭✭
    #7
    Re: What "toys" (electronic meters/equipment/etc.) would you recommend?

    Got most of these already mentioned (hence my handle!).

    Just to add to the list...

    Xantrex LinkPRO: http://2manytoyz.com/linkpro.html

    Blue Line Power Monitor: http://2manytoyz.com/blueline.html

    Extech DC clamp-on ammeter (40A & 400A ranges):
    charging48a-t.jpg
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  • jcgee88
    jcgee88 Solar Expert Posts: 154 ✭✭
    #8
    Re: What "toys" (electronic meters/equipment/etc.) would you recommend?
    BB. wrote: »
    How about a thread where we list all of the basic and advanced electronic meters and other tools that people may find useful when working with Conservation and Solar power... Some examples that I suggest:

    Kill-a-Watt meter (120 VAC 15 amp) power meter
    TED The Energy Detective (whole house AC energy monitors)
    Battery Monitors (Victron is another with good reputation)
    DC/AC Current Clamp Meter (inexpensive ~$60)
    DC Amp*Hour / WattHour meter (Watts Up; Doc Wattson)
    www.dso.seeedstudio.com (1 and two channel Iphone sized Oscilloscopes)

    Anyone else want to add/discuss their favorite "tools" (above suggestions or others) for Solar?

    -Bill

    I find that an IR thermometer is also valuable, for finding thermal leaks
    and/or insufficient insulation in the walls, ceiling, and HVAC stack.

    John
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  • Les Nagy
    Les Nagy Solar Expert Posts: 121 ✭✭
    #9
    Re: What "toys" (electronic meters/equipment/etc.) would you recommend?

    Avoid the seed studio oscilloscopes. They are not built to any safety spec and do not perform that well. When dealing with solar systems and high energies it would be nice to know that something won't blow up in your hand or face. Get a real meter or scope.

    For example http://www.tequipment.net/RigolDS1052E.html is more than 10 times the oscilloscope than the seed studios toys for only 2x the price. Or you can buy something like this http://www.dealexcel.com/unit-ut81b-oscilloscope-8mhz-w-usb-vivid-and-lcd_p390.html for less than the seed studios crap and have a well built meter and scope that will take the beating.

    The Rigol scope can also be hacked to be a 100MHz bandwidth model very easily.
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  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    #10
    Re: What "toys" (electronic meters/equipment/etc.) would you recommend?

    http://www.windsun.com/Hardware/Voltage_Calc.htm I like wind and sun voltage drop calculator. :Dsolarvic:D
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #11
    Re: What "toys" (electronic meters/equipment/etc.) would you recommend?

    Let the artist among us suggest a good mind, I really suggest not using a trimetric type meter for new users, I think it is important to get a feel for what is going.

    Even in this form there are lots of questions from people reading the meters wondering why the sudden voltage drop when the sun goes down, or the really low reading in the morning while they are up and running loads, but the sun hasn't hit their array.

    I own one and need to find it as I'm about to install a new battery, but I can live without it.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #12
    Re: What "toys" (electronic meters/equipment/etc.) would you recommend?
    Photowhit wrote: »
    Let the artist among us suggest a good mind, I really suggest not using a trimetric type meter for new users, I think it is important to get a feel for what is going.

    Even in this form there are lots of questions from people reading the meters wondering why the sudden voltage drop when the sun goes down, or the really low reading in the morning while they are up and running loads, but the sun hasn't hit their array.

    I own one and need to find it as I'm about to install a new battery, but I can live without it.

    If someone does not know how to use the tool
    What the tool is matters not

    Instruction books are useful

    :D
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  • ggunn
    ggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    #13
    Re: What "toys" (electronic meters/equipment/etc.) would you recommend?

    Here's one I want:
    http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/tools/test-measurement/metrs-distance/laser-distance-meter-2280-20?utm_source=google_pr&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Meters-Distance-google_pr&infoParam.campaignId=T9F

    [just so people are not guessing -Bill]:
    Milwaukee's Laser Distance Meter is a heavy duty distance measuring tool for professional, commercial and industrial applications. The 2280-20 can easily measure distance up to 197' with 1/16" accuracy. The end bracket allows for accurate measuring from corners and edges. Easily add and subtract values and use six different functions to calculate area, volume, Pythagorean equations and min/max. The 2280-20 is covered by the Milwaukee 5-Year Limited Warranty.
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  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    #14
    Re: What "toys" (electronic meters/equipment/etc.) would you recommend?

    Kinna Quote:

    'If someone does not know how to use the tool
    WHERE the tool is, matters not'

    I, too, have a Trimetric, but never have installed it. A neighbor has one, but has NEVER figured out how to "read it". Proof enough for me.

    Good list of gotta haves. Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
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  • petertearai
    petertearai Solar Expert Posts: 471 ✭✭✭✭
    #15
    Re: What "toys" (electronic meters/equipment/etc.) would you recommend?

    Thats why I got a victron battery monitor. Easy to install and display is clear and easy to understand. It would be a lot better if the display screen was bigger though.
    2225 wattts pv . Outback 2kw  fxr pure sine inverter . fm80 charge controller . Mate 3. victron battery monitor . 24 volts  in 2 volt Shoto lead carbon extreme batterys. off grid  holiday home 
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  • 2manytoyz
    2manytoyz Solar Expert Posts: 373 ✭✭✭
    #16
    Re: What "toys" (electronic meters/equipment/etc.) would you recommend?

    That's also why I bought the Xantrex LinkPRO. Very simple to install, and use. The menus are logical, simple to navigate. Read the headaches of using the Trimetric.
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  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #17
    Re: What "toys" (electronic meters/equipment/etc.) would you recommend?
    ggunn wrote: »
    Here's one I want:
    http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/tools/test-measurement/metrs-distance/laser-distance-meter-2280-20?utm_source=google_pr&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Meters-Distance-google_pr&infoParam.campaignId=T9F

    [just so people are not guessing -Bill]:

    I have a Leica Disto A3, much the same tool, though I'm not sure how it figures... just a nice measuring stick.

    Wouldn't own it but was doing a craigslist search for Leitz camera stuff and someone was selling it for $30. So I looked up what it was...

    ...any company who had a promotion giving away a VW bug Free as a carrying case for an 800mm lens...

    I don't have a problem with the Trimetric, just meters in general, don't promote an understanding of the system, IMHO
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
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  • ggunn
    ggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    #18
    Re: What "toys" (electronic meters/equipment/etc.) would you recommend?
    Photowhit wrote: »
    I have a Leica Disto A3, much the same tool, though I'm not sure how it figures... just a nice measuring stick.

    Wouldn't own it but was doing a craigslist search for Leitz camera stuff and someone was selling it for $30. So I looked up what it was...

    ...any company who had a promotion giving away a VW bug Free as a carrying case for an 800mm lens...

    I don't have a problem with the Trimetric, just meters in general, don't promote an understanding of the system, IMHO

    I want one to help with mapping out large roofs with lots of obstructions. Google Earth pics are too low rez.
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #19
    Re: What "toys" (electronic meters/equipment/etc.) would you recommend?

    ggunn,
    i'm not so sure they'd make that available to us civilians for they'd reserve that for the government and the military in particular. if you find something, let me know.
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  • ggunn
    ggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    #20
    Re: What "toys" (electronic meters/equipment/etc.) would you recommend?
    niel wrote: »
    ggunn,
    i'm not so sure they'd make that available to us civilians for they'd reserve that for the government and the military in particular. if you find something, let me know.
    Are you speaking of high rez satellite photos?
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #21
    Re: What "toys" (electronic meters/equipment/etc.) would you recommend?
    ggunn wrote: »
    Are you speaking of high rez satellite photos?

    yes, as opposed to the low res google satellite images.
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  • ggunn
    ggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    #22
    Re: What "toys" (electronic meters/equipment/etc.) would you recommend?
    niel wrote: »
    yes, as opposed to the low res google satellite images.
    Yeah, that would be great. I'd love to be able to do a complete roof modeling without having to do a site visit. As it is, small features that do not show on Google Earth can be show-stoppers.
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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #23
    Re: What "toys" (electronic meters/equipment/etc.) would you recommend?

    here is a link to a better than average meter and clamp for about $125 in Canada, so no border fees.
    Company is in Oregon and also sells in England too.

    http://www.ueitest.com/products/clamp-meter/dl379kit
    IN US http://www.tequipment.net/UEiDL379.html

    I found out it about from our furnace man who has one and uses it daily, 3 years now and no problems.
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #24
    Re: What "toys" (electronic meters/equipment/etc.) would you recommend?

    I might be missing something, but looking at the data sheet on that http://www.ueitest.com/sites/default/files/product-resources/DL379KIT%20DATA%20SHEET.pdf shows it is not a DC clamp-on, only AC clamp-on (says "jaw input" whereas the DC says "test lead input").
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  • Dashadeaux
    Dashadeaux Registered Users Posts: 23 ✭✭
    #25
    Re: What "toys" (electronic meters/equipment/etc.) would you recommend?

    Being relatively new to Solar and how to measure its effectiveness I've come to the conclusion I need something better than the monitor supplied by the leasing agency. A couple years ago while contemplating how to proceed with power management, I entertained the idea of purchasing The Energy Detective (TED). In this discussion I see there's a TED alternative for a couple dollars less, just from a cursory reading I thing TED is the way to go. I'm looking for info about the ease of the TED installation for a DIY person, and any thoughts about it's usefulness.
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