Florida Power & Light - $2 per watt of the DC output of a PV system, up to $20,000

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raydias
raydias Solar Expert Posts: 68 ✭✭✭✭
in General Solar Power Topics #1
Just an FYI

Accepting Applications June 21, 2011

http://www.fpl.com/landing/solar_rebate/residential_pv.shtml

As part of a five-year pilot program authorized by the Florida Public Service Commission, this rebate is available to all existing FPL residential customers in existing dwellings. The rebates are not available for new construction or PV systems that are already installed. Applicants must be current account holders of the premise where the solar photovoltaic system is being installed.

The Residential PV rebate is for solar electric panels, mounting hardware, grid-interactive electric inverter(s), optional battery systems, associated cabling, and for systems over 10 kilowatt AC, disconnect devices. This rebate program is only for grid-interactive PV systems with a minimum nameplate rating of 2 kilowatts direct current (DC) and a maximum nameplate rating of 2 megawatts. All components must be tested and listed by a nationally recognized testing and certification laboratory for continuous interactive operation with an electric distribution system in compliance with the applicable codes and standards of IEEE 1547, IEEE 1547.1, and UL 1741. All products installed must be new, not refurbished or previously installed.

Customers should choose products and contractors carefully, given the many variables involved. The customer is solely responsible for selecting, hiring and managing the contractor who will install the eligible solar products. FPL bears no responsibility for the quality or performance of any products or contractors chosen by the customer.
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  • RCinFLA
    RCinFLA Solar Expert Posts: 1,484 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
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    Re: Florida Power & Light - $2 per watt of the DC output of a PV system, up to $20,0

    Newpaper claim the available funds will be exhausted in two days following June 21st starting date for applications. The selected applicates get a reservation to be evaluated for meeting the requirements. Winning a reservation does not mean an assured rebate payment. You put the money into the system up front. You might be able to get an installer to accept a consignment of rebate payment as part of their payment.
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  • tonystewart
    tonystewart Solar Expert Posts: 54 ✭✭
    #3
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    Re: Florida Power & Light - $2 per watt of the DC output of a PV system, up to $20,0

    I am getting ready!
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  • rollandelliott
    rollandelliott Solar Expert Posts: 834 ✭✭
    #4
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    Re: Florida Power & Light - $2 per watt of the DC output of a PV system, up to $20,0

    I am extremely envious! I asked my sister if that was her power company and she said, "no"

    this is better than the Fed's $6000 home buying credit from last year.
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  • RCinFLA
    RCinFLA Solar Expert Posts: 1,484 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
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    Re: Florida Power & Light - $2 per watt of the DC output of a PV system, up to $20,0

    Good luck. You have to just about have signed a contract by now to get the paper work in on time. They said they will take the awarding (if you can call it that) of grants by post mark date of submission. Again, the expectation is there will be more submissions then the available funds for the rebate.

    Nothing is free. You will have to put up with a lot of scrutiny by FPL on your system. If you don't pick a contractor that knows what they are doing you will likely never see the money.

    You should negotiate price then insist that contractor takes part of the payment from the rebate, under consignment. This will give them the incentive to fix any issues that would prevent or hold up the rebate.
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  • rollandelliott
    rollandelliott Solar Expert Posts: 834 ✭✭
    #6
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    Re: Florida Power & Light - $2 per watt of the DC output of a PV system, up to $20,0

    "You will have to put up with a lot of scrutiny by FPL on your system"

    Do you have experience with them or with Progress energy's rebate process. What kind of things do they scrutinize?

    I'm also curious why all these florida utilities want to subsidize solar so much? What is in it for them? Is there some sort of Florida law that mandates a certain percentage of renewable/solar energy? If so it wouldn't really be in the utilities best interest to try to NOT pay for a system because of minor flaws?
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  • RCinFLA
    RCinFLA Solar Expert Posts: 1,484 ✭✭✭✭
    #7
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    Re: Florida Power & Light - $2 per watt of the DC output of a PV system, up to $20,0
    rollandelliott wrote: »
    I'm also curious why all these florida utilities want to subsidize solar so much? What is in it for them?

    The reason is because the more FPL can accumulate expenses, the more money they make. They have an assured 12% profit margin. The Fla. Public Services Commission approves rate increases, in part, to achieve allowed profit margins.
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  • rollandelliott
    rollandelliott Solar Expert Posts: 834 ✭✭
    #8
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    Re: Florida Power & Light - $2 per watt of the DC output of a PV system, up to $20,0

    I dont' quite follow that logic?
    So lets say a utility company makes 100 million a year.
    They have a 12% assured profit margin or 12 million.
    However.....
    They spend 10 million of that on subsidizing solar installations.
    So they only profit 2 million that year.
    The utility company then complains to the government they did not profit what they were supposed to and next year the government approves an additional $10 million in profit so the utility can get their mandated profit?
    The following year the utility company than spends ZERO on solar subsides and has a similar economic year so they get 12 million and another 10million therefore makings 22 million in profit?

    Wouldn't' the government notice that?

    Doesn't make sense to me, please elaborate?

    I dont' see how spending money on a venture that REDUCES your company's ability to sell electricity/profit margin has a net positive gain in anyway (from an economic stand point)
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  • Solar Guppy
    Solar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭
    #9
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    Re: Florida Power & Light - $2 per watt of the DC output of a PV system, up to $20,0
    rollandelliott wrote: »
    Wouldn't' the government notice that?

    Doesn't make sense to me, please elaborate?

    The company's will game anything to their advantage, as long as they comply with the laws, its fair game.

    FPL has figured out that they will get the rate payers to pay for it while having an advantage for tax credits and increased revenues, they might also get REC credits.

    Its not a requirement that you understand how they make money on it, only that you can be 100% certain they wouldn't do it unless they figured out how it will be a profit center for them
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,447 admin
    #10
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    Re: Florida Power & Light - $2 per watt of the DC output of a PV system, up to $20,0

    Generally, in our state, the PUC tells the utility to skim money from "all" the customers to give rebates to customers that "invest" in green energy. We also have the large monthly usage customers subsidizing the smaller usage customers. This is all left over from the days of Pres. Carter and the pushing of energy conservation. And our utility gets reimbursed for running these plans.

    The total "small generator" RE systems are limited to ~1% of the total installed generator base, so there is a limit to how much power the utility will lose.

    We have tiered pricing here (the more kWH per month you use, the higher rates you pay). Because of all of the added costs (not only solar RE costs, but gas pipeline issues--the explosion a few months ago near San Francisco was our utility) is now forcing a re-alignment in these billing policies. Tiered pricing is being moved lower. Increases in low tier per kWH costs and reducing high tier costs (a bit) because it is so hard on businesses and people that cannot afford to pay for conservation, cannot do conservation (apartment renters), etc.

    And yet, a decade ago, our PUC forced our two major utilities to near bankruptcy over "deregulation".

    It has been a wild ride with billions of bonds ($25 billion worth of 40 year bonds last I saw) to pay for one or two summers of messed up business/regulator practices (Enron, et. al.).

    Much of this, in the end, does not make sense... It is simply pushing the new policy of the year.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • AntronX
    AntronX Solar Expert Posts: 462 ✭✭
    #11
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    Re: Florida Power & Light - $2 per watt of the DC output of a PV system, up to $20,0
    rollandelliott wrote: »
    ...I'm also curious why all these florida utilities want to subsidize solar so much?...

    Few guesses:

    1. Cheaper to pay $2/W rather build it for $5/W + land cost/property tax.
    2. Pretty sure FP&L will keep RECs to themselves. They can make money on REC trading when carbon legislature comes through.
    3. Solar produces power at the same time when air conditioners are consuming it. Placing solar on site bypasses the grid, maybe* allowing FP&L to avoid grid upgrades. (* This plan would backfire during winter cold snaps, when everyone's central heating kicks in at 12 KW continuously + portable heaters, at night. There were local grid failures due to overload.)
    4. PR reasons. "Hey look, we are green!"
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  • rollandelliott
    rollandelliott Solar Expert Posts: 834 ✭✭
    #12
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    Re: Florida Power & Light - $2 per watt of the DC output of a PV system, up to $20,0

    "The selected applicates get a reservation to be evaluated for meeting the requirements. Winning a reservation does not mean an assured rebate payment."

    Wonder what percentage of applicants get rejected after applying? I'm sure there are some clueless people that want a solar array on their north side roof. Any contractors on this forum that have experience with these utility rebate programs and how difficult it is to actually get the rebate?
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,447 admin
    #13
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    Re: Florida Power & Light - $2 per watt of the DC output of a PV system, up to $20,0

    In California the requirements have become more complex... For larger systems (>10 kW) they can require Internet connected billing meters operated by a 3rd party for rebate payments (over 5 years?). In the olden days--you could have mounted the panels inside the garage and still obtained a rebate.

    And in parts of Canada, even after people have gotten their "approvals' to install the system (upwards of $0.85 per kWH payments) and actually built their system--The utilities have refused connection typically citing grid capacity issues.

    My Hydro Co. says they have no capacity for my 3kw system!

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • rollandelliott
    rollandelliott Solar Expert Posts: 834 ✭✭
    #14
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    Re: Florida Power & Light - $2 per watt of the DC output of a PV system, up to $20,0

    The Florida State Government has some rebate program a few years ago and it couldn't afford paying as well, after a lot of delays I think the legislature had to allocate more money to pay the people that installed solar and never got a state rebate. At least that is what I read online, never verified it.

    Hopefully that was a lesson learned and the utilities won't make the same mistake. Progress Energy is earmarking $1 million per year till 2014. That is probably the best way to do it , a little at a time.
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  • RCinFLA
    RCinFLA Solar Expert Posts: 1,484 ✭✭✭✭
    #15
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    Re: Florida Power & Light - $2 per watt of the DC output of a PV system, up to $20,0

    Like air conditioner upgrade energy rebates, the other angle is the installers jack up the price so they get at least some of the rebate pie.

    I get at least two calls a week offering a 'free' energy audit that will include how I can 'eliminate' or greatly reduce by electric bill with a solar electric installation.

    Don't want to be such a 'wet blanket' but there are a lot of scammers out there.
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  • tonystewart
    tonystewart Solar Expert Posts: 54 ✭✭
    #16
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    Re: Florida Power & Light - $2 per watt of the DC output of a PV system, up to $20,0
    Solar Guppy wrote: »
    The company's will game anything to their advantage, as long as they comply with the laws, its fair game.

    FPL has figured out that they will get the rate payers to pay for it while having an advantage for tax credits and increased revenues, they might also get REC credits.

    Its not a requirement that you understand how they make money on it, only that you can be 100% certain they wouldn't do it unless they figured out how it will be a profit center for them

    Very well written, and according to sources very accurate....hence the name FP&L... Florida Plunder & Loot
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  • tonystewart
    tonystewart Solar Expert Posts: 54 ✭✭
    #17
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    Re: Florida Power & Light - $2 per watt of the DC output of a PV system, up to $20,0

    I wish I could have pulled the trigger, but I lost my income May 31st
    My deal with a local well respected installer
    5 kw $13000 after FPL rebate & 30% tax credit.
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  • rollandelliott
    rollandelliott Solar Expert Posts: 834 ✭✭
    #18
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    Re: Florida Power & Light - $2 per watt of the DC output of a PV system, up to $20,0

    If there are any licensed electrical people around Orlando that would be willing to work with me on a 10KW system this fall where I do all the grunt work and the contractor does the inspection/certification please send me a PM.

    Thanks!
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