new charge on electric bill

solarvicsolarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭✭
I was looking at daughters electric bill and see that First Energy has added a new charge to her bill effective June 1. There is an added charge of 0.011 per kwh added to recover the cost the power co has to pay for solar energy credits. Daughter doesn,t think it is fair that she has to pay for my solar power. It adds close to $28.00 to her electric bill. I havn,t got my bill yet. We get our meters read on the same day but I usually get my bill about 10 days later than she does. My bill always has whiteout on it.
:grrIs this a common charge of electric companys or is it something new that they have started to collect more money? :grr solarvic

Comments

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 32,026 admin
    Re: new charge on electric bill

    Yep, subsidies for rich folks in the suburbs.

    I guess one could argue the amount of charge... In most areas, I would guess they allow ~0.5 to 1.0% maximum of their customers on Net Metering (small generators).

    For a typical flat rate residential billing that is around $0.12 to $0.40 per kWH (more you use, more you pay):
    Transmission* (all usage) $0.01444 (I)
    Transmission Rate Adjustments* (all usage) $0.00136 (I)
    Reliability Services* (all usage) $0.00044
    Public Purpose Programs (all usage) $0.01530
    Nuclear Decommissioning (all usage) $0.00066
    Competition Transition Charges (all usage) $0.00881
    Energy Cost Recovery Amount (all usage) $0.00472
    DWR Bond (all usage) $0.00505
    I would guess that our N. California utility is charging around $0.0153 per kWH for these programs.

    So, why do ~1% or less of the customers getting subsidies for solar increase power costs by ~10%... This is not the math they taught me in government schools--Must be some other super secret government math.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: new charge on electric bill

    If my math is correct, your daughter is using ~ 84 kwh/day. Perhaps her energy might be better spent so to speak, rather than worrying about $.011/kwh she mght do a bit of conservation.

    Tony
  • solar_davesolar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: new charge on electric bill

    these two charges show up on my bill.

    Environmental benefits surcharge $0.00
    Federal environmental improvement surcharge $0.00

    Since I draw almost nothing in total from them mine is always zero.

    Here is the explanations of each:

    Environmental benefits surcharge - A charge to cover the costs of programs approved by the Arizona Corporation Commission, including: energy efficiency and renewable energy projects.

    Federal Environmental Improvement Surcharge - A charge to recover a portion of the cost of investments and expenses for environmental improvements at APS’ generation facilities designed to comply with environmental standards mandated by federal laws or regulations.

    Perhaps she can take advantage of energy efficiency programs to recoup some of that.
  • waynefromnscanadawaynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: new charge on electric bill
    icarus wrote: »
    If my math is correct, your daughter is using ~ 84 kwh/day. Perhaps her energy might be better spent so to speak, rather than worrying about $.011/kwh she mght do a bit of conservation.

    Tony

    Was kind of thinking the same thing. Would be interesting to know if there was a misprint, or is that household really using (wasting) that much energy? In my opinion, there should be huge surcharges for unjustified excess energy usage, a crime really, unless there are proven to be very good and reasonable reasons. Just because someone can afford to waste energy, doesn't make it a non-crime against humanity or the environment.
  • solar_davesolar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: new charge on electric bill
    icarus wrote: »
    If my math is correct, your daughter is using ~ 84 kwh/day. Perhaps her energy might be better spent so to speak, rather than worrying about $.011/kwh she mght do a bit of conservation.

    Tony

    Yeah 84 kwh a day is huge, here in AZ this time of year when the heat is over 100F midday, we are only using about 70 kwh for 25,000 cubic feet of AC on main house using two 3 ton Trane 17 seer heat pumps + 800 cu ft in office with inverter mini split and recharging the Chevy Volt, along with all the other loads like the electric Dryer (clothes line going up this month).

    Either the bill is screwed or they are sucking in same real juice there.
  • solarvicsolarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: new charge on electric bill
    icarus wrote: »
    If my math is correct, your daughter is using ~ 84 kwh/day. Perhaps her energy might be better spent so to speak, rather than worrying about $.011/kwh she mght do a bit of conservation.

    Tony
    I agree with you that my daughter,s household wastes lots of power. Thier house is all electric and has a geothermal heating system. I think the heating contractor didn,t install enough plastic pipe or bury it deep enough. The first 2 winters they used a kerosene heater as the heating system didn,t keep thier home warm. They were about to sue the homebuilder (which I think they should have done) So the home builder had a rep from the heating contractor, a rep from the furnace builder and another heating contractor. What they concluded is that the waterheater took too much heat out of the ground and the furnace couldn,t get enough heat so they disconnected the desuperheater from the waterheater. Seems to keep the house warm enough now. There is a family of 4 and they all take showers every morning before they go to work and school. They never turn anything off. 4 tv,s 4 satelite receivers, 2 ps-3 game machines, 1 xbox game machine 2 computers, cd players, always on. 6 yard lights never turned off and lots of incandant lights. My son inlaw trys to switch to cfl,s but my daughter switches them back to incandesants. She has a lifetime supply of the incandesants. They just don,t know about conservation. They bought a big new Tahoe a few months ago and my son inlaw comutes about 100 miles round trip to work. My daughter just found out this morning that my grandson has been doing a Forest Bueller on her. Don,t know how long he has been doing this. She gets him up to take his shower and goes back to bed a few minutes while he is taking his shower. What grandson was doing. He would get up and turn on the shower and go back to bed for a little more sleep while my daughter thought he was taking a shower. She was wondering how he drained all the hotwater. They have an 80 gallon electric tank. They kind of make fun of my solar panels but have envy when my electric bill is usually the minumum charge. So I don,t feel too guilty as I spend thier inherentance. :D:Dsolarvic:D:D
  • PhotowhitPhotowhit Solar Expert Posts: 5,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: new charge on electric bill
    solarvic wrote: »
    ...So I don,t feel too guilty as I spend thier inherentance. :D:Dsolarvic:D:D

    One must have goals!

    84Kwhs... I use that some months in the summer time...
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • solarvicsolarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,060 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: new charge on electric bill
    Photowhit wrote: »
    One must have goals!

    84Kwhs... I use that some months in the summer time...

    Whit, this is 84 kwh per day on average. Actually thier average usage per 12 months is close to 2800 KWH per month!! Solarvic
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: new charge on electric bill

    Our new place is using 16 kW hours per day. Five times what the cabin uses. Gotta get that down. ;)
  • PhotowhitPhotowhit Solar Expert Posts: 5,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: new charge on electric bill

    I was just having fun with it...

    Ran the A/C 5-6 hours last night on the old Golf Cart batteries, They have really hung in there, The Fridge needs defrosting too!

    Still haven't had anyone get back with me, with a quote on fork lift batteries, I'll start calling around next week. this early summer is rough!
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • SolarLurkerSolarLurker Solar Expert Posts: 122 ✭✭
    Re: new charge on electric bill

    As much as I like benefiting from the sale of PA srec's I gotta to admit the logic behind this program was a bit fuzzy.

    Essentially, as part of removing electric price controls in the state PA decided to subsidize PV installations. (thinking that the excess supply of electric would drive down prices) Then they mandated that electric companies buy these credits, however the electric companies are allowed to charge a fee for their purchase.

    The debate over Subsidization becomes awfully fuzzy, you could say your daughter is subsidizes your PV. However, you could also say my I subsidize her poor electric usage as a pay a minimum bill to penelec each month of 35 dollars even though I only use 30 kwh a year. Plus the electric companies have been given billions of dollars for smart grids, rural electrification projects, and all kind of other nonsense.

    Ideally, nothing would be subsidize and everyone would have to bear the true costs of their decisions. However, that is beyond the scope of this forum.
  • n3qikn3qik Solar Expert Posts: 741 ✭✭
    Re: new charge on electric bill

    I have PECO.

    They call it:
    Alt. Engery Portfolio Standard @ $.00140/KWH

    Well. I only used 121 KWHs last month, some don't see the added $ .17 sending me to the poor house.
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