Xantrex XW MPPT 80 A 600 V

BB. · May 2011

Re: Xantrex XW MPPT 80 A 600 V

From XWGuy's sign-up email address--one can guess that he has a bit more "inside information" than the rest of us.

Hmmm... Announce well before the product is available--or announce after the product is out in early release and has some hours on it. Darned if you do--Darned if you don't.

Please play nice.

-Bill

Vic · May 2011

Re: Xantrex XW MPPT 80 A 600 V

Hi BB,

Well, IIRC, on the OLD Xantrex site, there was preliminary info. Then, it was not a secret. Guess that Schneider just scraped off all of that data into the trash.

Yea, XWGuy's location is also a give away.

I do have some experience with Xantrex, and some still feelings revolving around one of their Charge Controllers, and support(?).

I did clean up my post prior to posting it.

Perhaps the product is not really shipping, altho there was an implication, or perhaps just my inference.

My new system is a bit too fat for the MPPT 80/600 anyway, but did want to check the manual just to make sure.

Thanks, Vic

Dave Angelini · May 2011

Re: Xantrex XW MPPT 80 A 600 V

boB wrote: »

Yes, I see that but it is only an ad for this product. You would think that the company would have that product on their web site too. I think they are just
slow on this one and it will eventually be on their site too. The manuals for products are online, right ? The manual for this CC should eventually also be up there.
That's something that probably won't be in a magazine.

Thanks,
boB

As I told Mr. Vic years ago on the old X website, "it is their company"
I can e-mail you a manual after I check....It still is an excellent product BTW !
Three day week-end ! NICE !!!

XWGuy · May 2011

Re: Xantrex XW MPPT 80 A 600 V

Hi Vic,

You are correct, Schneider Electric is a very large company. Because of that, sometimes it is not so easy to get things like product information loaded onto the website as quickly as was one would hope. Our request for this action was submitted to the web team a while ago, but all I can say is that the information will be up shortly.

If you would like an advance copy of the manual, either I can send you one, or Dave can forward it on to you.

In regards to the delayed launch of the XW MPPT 80 600, we had some issues early on getting the manufacturing set up. Although the delays were not foreseen, these types of issues are common on new product launches. As production ramps you will soon see the product is readily available.

Note that I work in engineering for Schneider on these products. I was interested in the types of discussions occurring on this forum so I decided to sign up and chime in when I think I can be of help. I am not a customer service rep so I will not be able to speak to all of the products we offer.

Thank you for the open dialogue.

Regards

Jeff

Vic · May 2011

Re: Xantrex XW MPPT 80 A 600 V

AND, Dave, From another thread, you did state that the XW 80-600 CC IS shipping through the channel ... was not sure that I had really read that correctly in previous posts.

Am, just now, doing a new system, which would be simpler to wire with a HV CC.

Could you tell me, if this new CC has a programmable Aux output? And if so, is one of its funcitons to become active in Float, or even better, at 50 % of Asorb time + Float (or some similar function) ?

And, in poking around on the Net previously, one site stated that this CC was due in approx July '11, and estimated price would be about $1300. Can you give any Price info? Did look at a distributor/reseller's site, you mentioned, and saw no mention of this CC.

The envisioned new array, here, could be about 5800 W STC, so would be pushing Max I a bit, and adding a second HV CC could get a bit expensive.

TIA Thanks to all who served. 73 Vic

Vic · May 2011

Re: Xantrex XW MPPT 80 A 600 V

Hi XWGuy,

Thanks for the post ... missed your post while I was doing mine.

I'd love to see the manual.
( I was very disappointed that the XW SCC-150 I purchased some time ago was missing THE very important Aux funciton -- CC is in Float or similar. Was told by X support that this useless function would NEVER be in the XW SCC-150. AND, it was unknown to me that while the SCC WAS Field FW Updatable, it required a $250.00 gadget to do so, and since this NEW CC had arrived with old, BUGGY FW, I had no way to update it without buying the implanter. The seller of this downlevel CC was "unable to do anything for me" ... This was surprising to me).

YES, Ive sent my career doing HW/FW/Software development, and know how things go in getting info out to potential customers, altho that was usually what the PM did.

SOME info on this HV CC used to be on the X site, but guess that it disappeared with the name shuffles.

Thanks for joining this Forum, and any additional info, like tha manual, and the SRP would be great!. Thanks, Vic

Dave Angelini · May 2011

Re: Xantrex XW MPPT 80 A 600 V

One of the very nice improvements to the AUX is current drive. 60VDC/30VAC @ 8Amps. It does all the normal aux programming of load controll, vent fan, alarms, and trigger source configurable ranges. I would have liked a 24 hour time function in there but that can done in other ways. It could be done with firmware I would think...

I have the new printed install and owners manuals but the only ones I can e-mail are the beta manuals. If that is OK XWGuy ? It would not be polite for me to discuss price here as I do not know what Wind/Sun will do. You could become one of my customers.... sorry for the shameless plug!

Thanks again today to the guy's who gave so much!

Vic · May 2011

Re: Xantrex XW MPPT 80 A 600 V

Dave,

XWGuy, Jeff, was kind enough to offer to send the manual, so that should be taken care of.

And on the price, was ONLY asking for the MSRP range -- The RETAIL price. If it is horribly expensive, then any benefit might be overcome by the price.

My understanding from Jeff, is that this useful Aux function is not available on this new cc, and at, perhaps 450 VDC array voltage, its usefulness (to me) is much reduced.

OK Thanks, others have asked about the nominal pricing, in this thread, so am not the only one. Vic

XWGuy · May 2011

Re: Xantrex XW MPPT 80 A 600 V

Hi Vic,

Sorry this isn't readily available on our corporate website yet. The suggested MSRP for the US market is currently set at $1599, but final prices are set by distributors and dealers.

Regards,

Jeff

mike95490 · May 2011

Re: Xantrex XW MPPT 80 A 600 V

XWGuy wrote: »

Hi Vic,

Sorry this isn't readily available on our corporate website yet. The suggested MSRP for the US market is currently set at $1599, but final prices are set by distributors and dealers.

Regards,

Jeff

Somehow, I don't think they will go flying out the door at that price

Well, maybe in a year it will come down from the mesosphere price catagory. $900 might have been justifiable in my budget, but $600 buys a LOT of #6 wire.

Vic · May 2011

Re: Xantrex XW MPPT 80 A 600 V

Hi Jeff,

Thank you very much for the info on price.

This BIG BOX is magic for those who need it. Would save me a lotta time and conduit, but really would need a bit more output current, and two of these would be over budget.

Nice product, Jeff, thanks, Vic

Solar Guppy · May 2011

Re: Xantrex XW MPPT 80 A 600 V

Nice to see some presence from Xantrex / Schneider ... I have a hunch we once worked on a few projects together

back in the GT/XW days

On the price, its pretty common for "retail" pricing to be quite a bit higher than street pricing, I personally believe the pricing is inline with what would have to be inside the box and inline with the people who buy the XW-6048's ... these are the ones that have whole house power centers.

Can it be done cheaper with a 700 dollar 80 amp Outback or Apollo?, not by much when you factor in the wiring cost.

Dave Angelini · June 2011

Re: Xantrex XW MPPT 80 A 600 V

Solar Guppy wrote: »

Nice to see some presence from Xantrex / Schneider ... I have a hunch we once worked on a few projects together back in the GT/XW days

On the price, its pretty common for "retail" pricing to be quite a bit higher than street pricing, I personally believe the pricing is inline with what would have to be inside the box and inline with the people who buy the XW-6048's ... these are the ones that have whole house power centers.

Can it be done cheaper with a 700 dollar 80 amp Outback or Apollo?, not by much when you factor in the wiring cost.

Right! And then you throw in the labor which on this box is a piece of cake for install. 23 A @ 400V PV into a 100A breakered 48V system and the watts add up very fast. I never did get to measure how aggressive the 80A current limit to the battery works but I was told that you would not miss edge of cloud events.

X / S did publish the efficiency @ 96%.

The Aux also drives a battery fan diectly without the labor of external relays which is nice.

Vic · June 2011

Re: Xantrex XW MPPT 80 A 600 V

Am still considering weather this new CC is the correct choice for a new project.

XWGuy Jeff was kind enough to send both manuals on it.

I do note that there is a spec on "Maximum Power Conversion Efficiency" of 96% with a 48 V nom. bank. I do wonder what is the efficiency vs PV in. Would love to see a curve.

Have a pending question to XWGuy regarding the proper place to ask these detailed tech questions.

Am considering two strings of 12 ea SW 245s -- STC Vmp= 30.8 V, Voc 37.7. So this would yield a string V of 370-ish V.

Had several tech questions, including the availability of an on-line string calculator tool etc.

73 Vic

Vic · June 2011

Re: Xantrex XW MPPT 80 A 600 V

A brief update:

As of this hour, today, I still see no info on the Schneider site for this new HV CC, YMMV.

Upon advice from Schneider Electric pre-sales support, the string size tool for the GT5.0 inverter "is very close" , as a guide for sizing strings on the MPPT 80 600. The GT5.0 has a tad more current capability due to its 5000 watt rating, vs 4800 watts for this MPPT 80 CC [EDIT: on a 48 volt battery]

Will not try to provide a link to the sizer, as historically, this has yielded poor results.

However, have been able to find the GT5.0 size tool via the following path:
Google schneider electric ... click " products and services " ... in the search box at the upper right of the page, type " gt5.0 " ... click the search result labelled 864-1009 . on the lower right, there should be a button ... " sizing tools " under "Additional Link " OMIT any/all of hte quotation makrs.

There, you will need to select GT5.0 from the list and your exact panels, temps etc.
NOTE: under the GT5.0 inverter selection, my exact panel is not in the table, but in ditzing around, selecting a different inverter, my panel was listed, and if my panel was selected prior to changing back to GT5.0, panel the selection remained. The sizing tool works well and quickly. Of course, would love to be able to edit panel parameters, in the cases where there is no selection in the table of panels ... AND there may still be a way of doing this.

Just wanted to add this little bit of "info" in the intirim while Schneider updates their site with all of the info and tools for this new, but shipping HV CC. (sorry for the verbosity)

XWGuy Jeff, at Schneider has been very helpful, as has the pre-sales support person. Thanks! Vic

Joe_B · June 2011

Re: Xantrex XW MPPT 80 A 600 V

Vic wrote: »

However, have been able to find the GT5.0 size tool via the following path:
Google schneider electric ... click " products and services " ... in the search box at the upper right of the page, type " gt5.0 " ... click the search result labelled 864-1009 . on the lower right, there should be a button ... " sizing tools " under "Additional Link " OMIT any/all of hte quotation makrs.

Does anyone else find this rediculous? Why is it so hard to deal with these guys?:p

Vic · June 2011

Re: Xantrex XW MPPT 80 A 600 V

Hi Joe_B,

There is probably a better path, this is the one that has worked for me.

BUT, yes it is too bad. And might frustrate some of the troops.

Schneider is a bit of a large company. Many product lines are on this one site ... this might just make the process of finding info feel a bit heavy.

Am trying to not snipe too much at Schneider. Before the integration of most of the Xantrex line into Schneider, data was easier to find, and info on this CC was available (I'll swear).

But this CC appears to be a nice product, and fills a vacant slot in what's available.

Hope S soon gets data and all the tools on their site. Vic

stephendv · June 2011

Re: Xantrex XW MPPT 80 A 600 V

At that price, the cc seems to fill a very small niche market as there are better options for the more common scenarios. E.g.:

If you have a primarily grid tied system and want to maximize production and still have battery backup for the occasional grid outtage, then a regular grid tied inverter backfeeding the XW seems the more sensible option.

If you're primarily off-grid and just have a problem with the distance between PV and batteries, then the midnite 250V CC seems the better choice. Unless it's really far, then I guess the Xantrex 80 might be a contender.

Joe_B · June 2011

Re: Xantrex XW MPPT 80 A 600 V

Vic wrote: »

Hi Joe_B,

There is probably a better path, this is the one that has worked for me.

BUT, yes it is too bad. And might frustrate some of the troops.

Schneider is a bit of a large company. Many product lines are on this one site ... this might just make the process of finding info feel a bit heavy.

Am trying to not snipe too much at Schneider. Before the integration of most of the Xantrex line into Schneider, data was easier to find, and info on this CC was available (I'll swear).

But this CC appears to be a nice product, and fills a vacant slot in what's available.

Hope S soon gets data and all the tools on their site. Vic

Frustrating is not the word, When you spend upwards of five grand on a companies system, AND they have a sucky customer service policy, you would at least expect the company to make information easily available to people trying to install their product. In the years I have dealt with X and now S, it is like pulling teeth trying to get information about the system. I dont expect any different from S because of what they have done to the web site and the lack of any constructive changes since the acquisition.

I will still maintain that the XW stuff is pretty top of the line hardware but the firmware and support services are pathetic. I have never heard of a company that will not release firmware updates for their products but WILL modify the existing stuff on a customer by customer basis. Like if you bitch loud enough, they will fix your problem for you and give you a one off copy of the firmware for your system???

Oh and being a big company is no excuse for this situation, if they are so big, they should be able to fix this situation without too much trouble.

[/RANT]

Vic · June 2011

Re: Xantrex XW MPPT 80 A 600 V

Regarding the target segment for this CC, had wondered about this unit as a part of a GT system with battery backup, where one wants to use the HV strings to charge a battery without having to go to an Island box. But still one needs an inverter to run off the battery bank ... I know nothing about GT systems, and little about others.

BUT, to me, running HV PV strings on an off-grid system can still be a win, just for the samings in pipe, wire, combiner hardware and labor . One drawback of such a setup is that it becomes more difficult to PWM the PV to something like water pre/heater. I would not want to play around with 450 V DC ... altho, even 90 VDC is sobering to me.

And, Joe, you are correct about the customer service/support. My experience with the XW SCC as a standalone CC was very disappointing ... I just refuse to put another $250-275 (or perhaps more) to update the old buggy FW that it shipped with ... I still am not sure that with that additional investment that there would not be something additional that would be needed that X or S forgot to mention. I did buy the SCC, and I did not know enough to ask the correct questions about exactly what would be needed for the update, and just how one would accomplish this task. X support had never heard of the bug where the SCC reported that it was in Asorb while it was still in Bulk (and an hour or more away from Asord). One support person proudly proclaimed that this bug was "A Xantrex INNOVATION !! So I keep the XW SCC laying around on the floor, as a reminder of my mistake.

I DO like my venerable X SW+ 5548s ... very solid, and one can use them as stand alones. If I needed another inverter or two, think that there is simply nothing else on the market for 48 V off grid use, so would just HAVE to use the XW.

Think that your comments are right on ... Reputations are generally earned. Some companies work very hard to earn them.

For a new installation, have considered the XW MPPT 80 600, but looks like the Midnite Classic will be the correct choice. And so on ... (trying to play nice) .. Vic

solarix · June 2011

Re: Xantrex XW MPPT 80 A 600 V

I've been waiting for some time for a HV CC to add on a battery back-up capability to GT systems. Most customers balk at the $5-8K needed to do this with a Sunny Island and it is too late to convert over to an XW system. I'd like to add on a minimal system like the 1800W msw PowerHub by X but be able to tie it in to the GT array. Even a $$$1000 price for the XW MPPT 600V unit is cost effective to make this possible. Probably overkill though and I'd still like to see a smaller CC that can handle HV. Doesn't even have to be efficient as it would only be used during outages.

Vic · June 2011

Re: Xantrex XW MPPT 80 A 600 V

XW MPPT 80 600 manuals and brochure NOW on Schneider site. Am trying to include a link, but it may not work:

http://www2.schneider-electric.com/sites/corporate/en/general/search/search-result.page?URL=http://websearch.schneider-electric.com/GsaLost/portlets/AutonomyGlobalSearch.jsp%3FLanguage=en%26Country=CORP%26lancer=oui%26firstQuery=true%26site=null%26autnmSource=*%26autnmQueryBis=xw%25252520mppt%2525252080%25252520600

WOW, that is a bit long. The link appears to work right now, but may not age well ...

You might try going the Schneider site, and search for this " xw mppt 80 600 "
No quotes ... there is the Installation Manual, Operation Manual, and a Brochure listed in the lower part of search return results.

Bet XW Guy, Crewzer and all are happy. Thanks, Vic

stephendv · June 2011

Re: Xantrex XW MPPT 80 A 600 V

solarix wrote: »

I've been waiting for some time for a HV CC to add on a battery back-up capability to GT systems. Most customers balk at the $5-8K needed to do this with a Sunny Island and it is too late to convert over to an XW system.

The problem with an HV CC is + Xantrex XW battery inverter will be the loss of efficiency in GT scenarios. If you're getting paid for every kWh, every % of efficiency counts, and with transformerless inverters reaching 97% efficiency, compared to the 96 ish of the CC + 95 ish of the battery inverter, you're losing quite a bit compared to a pure GT solution.

If it's the price of the sunny island itself that's the problem, then you could also use the Xantrex XW but with a sunnyboy GTI. Since the XW now supports some form of frequency control, it could be used with the GT.

To me, it just doesn't seem worthwhile to design the system as if it were an off-grid system when in fact, it will be used in off-grid mode only 1% of the time - for the few power cuts during the year. The rest of the time it will be used as a GT system - but with bad efficiency.

Dave Angelini · June 2011

Re: Xantrex XW MPPT 80 A 600 V

If 96% is bad, there always is the new sweep algorithm which the -80-600 uses. The details are not always in the specifications ! Being fare, it is a nice box on which to build for future advanced euipment. It is just electronics right?

Build an SCP that is more useful with ethernet....hmmm.....

T2 PV=NRT · November 2012

Re: Xantrex XW MPPT 80 A 600 V

Hi, I did buy a MPPT 80 600 to convert my GT system to emergency off grid use, and the first unit was a little buggy with a'slow over current error' under absorb mode only. I actually had a good customer service experience and they replaced it with a new one. It charges a 155ah bank, connected to a cotek 3000 watt inverter.

Xantrex XW MPPT 80 A 600 V

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