Off grid well pump system

JR Hill
JR Hill Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭
in Solar Water Pumping #1
With the well casing in place I'm now ready to take the next step. Unfortunately, there seems to be some confusion on what I am planning and what is really needed.b

I need to oversee this project closely but am having difficulty due to the lousy docs I see on line for Grundfos technical resources and specs. My intent is to have solar as primary and with batteries as the primary backup and a generator as the secondary backup. Seems to me that this should be easy but without better technical docs I sense disaster is looming.

The dealer has spec'd an 11 SPF-2 pump, a CU 200 controller, a IO 101 for the generator hookup and 8 GF80 Panels. He says the charge controller for the batteries is included within the CU 200 and said he verified this with the Grundfos distributor. I don't buy it. Neither do I see a way to toggle between the gen set and batteries. I'm also concerned about the charge controller: can't tell if it can be configured to the number of batteries used (i.e., 48v or 96v) and if it accommodates all the variations of input voltages based upon the number of panels and the configuration.

Any input would be appreciated.
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Comments

  • KeithWHare
    KeithWHare Solar Expert Posts: 140 ✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: Off grid well pump system

    Take a look at page 14 of the Grundfos document L-SP-TL-014.PDF (there's a link at http://store.solar-electric.com/grsoposuwapu.html). This shows an example hookup with solar panels, batteries, etc. In addition to the CU200 pump control, this diagram shows a solar Charge Controller, with no indication of make or model.

    The generator hooks up to the IO 101 switch box. Take a look a the description of the IO 101 at http://store.solar-electric.com/griogein.html

    It looks to me like the generator hookup is ok with the parts you listed, but the solar & battery side is incomplete.

    Keith
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  • JR Hill
    JR Hill Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭
    #3
    Re: Off grid well pump system

    Thx Keith, much appreciated. Confirmed.

    BTW, I like the SQFlex modular approach. Obviously, one pay's for this. Is there any input to the inherent quality and support of and for the piece parts?

    Best,
    JRHh
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  • FarmerGreen
    FarmerGreen Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭
    #4
    Re: Off grid well pump system

    How deep is your well and how many gallons per minute do you need?
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  • wild01
    wild01 Solar Expert Posts: 100 ✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: Off grid well pump system

    if you plan on using an inverter in the future at this location, skip the flex and just put in a grundfos sq less expensive pump no controller required and still a zero surge start. you will need to have an inverter, but can almost break even price wise and you will have ac power available for future expansions. the sq will even run on msw. I have ran mine just fine off my old as dirt trace 2012 for a couple weeks with no problems.
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #6
    Re: Off grid well pump system

    Dear All,

    Now we can use the off-grid inverters specially design for the large solar water pumping solutions. for reference visit http://www.youtube.com/buntwoo they directly run the AC water pumps on Solar power.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #7
    Re: Off grid well pump system

    Asim,

    Normally we would delete your post as commercial spam.

    However, I will leave it up if you can provide a more technical discussion.

    You are out of Lahore Pakistan, and for the most part we do not have many people here from your region.

    -Bill moderator B.
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    #8
    Re: Off grid well pump system
    wild01 wrote: »
    if you plan on using an inverter in the future at this location, skip the flex and just put in a grundfos sq less expensive pump no controller required and still a zero surge start. you will need to have an inverter, but can almost break even price wise and you will have ac power available for future expansions. the sq will even run on msw. I have ran mine just fine off my old as dirt trace 2012 for a couple weeks with no problems.
    I was going to post and ask if anyone has any experience with a grundfos sq pump and saw this post. Well, Could you tell me how you like your pump by now? I bought one about 8 years ago and never used yet. Thinking of pulling the 220 v. energy hog pump out and put in the sq pump. The power surge to start the pump is only 10% above running watts. The best I can figure is the pump running watts at maximum is .99 kw should only need about 1.1 kw to start. Considerably less than the pump I have now. I think my house would run preety normal with my SW 4024 and i set of l-16 batterys. :Dsolarvic:D
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  • Ralph Day
    Ralph Day Solar Expert Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭✭
    #9
    Re: Off grid well pump system

    I have an SQ 05A-160 submersible pump. It's a zero start so there's no surge load on startup. I really like it compared to the old 240vac hog.

    The house also has a cistern and I use a conergy booster pump to pressurize to 50psi. It only puts out 2.5gpm, but that's ok for domestic use. I can put the house on either exclusively, or run both independantly (submersible for drinking water only) and have found the booster pump uses less power over the same time period compared to the submersible. That's understandable, the sub can provide 10gpm and runs at .99kw as opposed to the booster at 130w.

    You'll be happy with the SQ. I used to watch the colour tv picture shrink and go grey when the 240v hog would start up. It's start load registered 40amps on the inverter so it was probably higher.

    Ralph
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  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    #10
    Re: Off grid well pump system

    Ralph, Glad to hear about the sq pump. When I eliminate the 240 volt pump that will leave me with only the Geospring water heater that needs 240 volt. I decided that if I tryed to run the waterheater the transformer loss and inverter loss would be more than the heater uses. Guess I need to wire up my transformer and see how much power it actually uses to supply the geo spring. I heard the waterheater uses 500 watt when running in energysaver mode. The main problem I think it needs power 24/7 to keep the monitor running. My daughter lives across the road from me and my son inlaw has a small diesel generator that can,t start the waterpump. He said if my pump works off the inverter he wants one too. Generator guy wants $8,000.00 to put in an 8.000 kw generator that he claims will start the pump. That is just one of those cheap Generacs and he already has the transfer box for present generator. $ 660.00 is a heck of a lot cheaper than getting a new generator that works just fine in emergency use. We had 6 power outages this winter that lasted at least 10 to 12 hours. With my off grid setup I can have presurized and heated water. Since originally I was going to be offgrid I have most of the components except batterys and a couple solar panel racks to be off grid some of the time. As I get into it I will probably have more questions later. :Dsolarvic
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  • Ralph Day
    Ralph Day Solar Expert Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭✭
    #11
    Re: Off grid well pump system

    My 240v pump was wired as per Xantrex instructions, through a autotransformer (120-240) so the initial startup load included energizing the transformer and starting the well pump. The SO4048 would show at least 40amps draw.

    Ralph
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  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    #12
    Re: Off grid well pump system

    Ralph, I have one of those xantrex 220 volt transformers. I am curious to the amount of power it waste. Think I will put a 120 cord and plug on it so I can test it with my kilowatt meter on my 240 volt Geo Spring waterheater. Since the waterheater usually don,t even use more than about 35 to 40 KWH in a month I am thinking there might be more loss from the transformer than what the waterheater uses. :Dsolarvic:D
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  • Ralph Day
    Ralph Day Solar Expert Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭✭
    #13
    Re: Off grid well pump system

    You can wire the transformer such that when whatever requires 240v turns on it allows power to the transformer and through to the load. It's that initial saturation surge of the transformer that seems high I think.

    RCA or Solar Guppy might know more about the tare load on these transformers.

    Ralph
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  • wild01
    wild01 Solar Expert Posts: 100 ✭✭✭
    #14
    Re: Off grid well pump system
    solarvic wrote: »
    I was going to post and ask if anyone has any experience with a grundfos sq pump and saw this post. Well, Could you tell me how you like your pump by now? I bought one about 8 years ago and never used yet. Thinking of pulling the 220 v. energy hog pump out and put in the sq pump. The power surge to start the pump is only 10% above running watts. The best I can figure is the pump running watts at maximum is .99 kw should only need about 1.1 kw to start. Considerably less than the pump I have now. I think my house would run preety normal with my SW 4024 and i set of l-16 batterys. :Dsolarvic:D

    Vic sorry I missed this post, I love my grundfos, it works great never draws over 1kw, Only problem I've had with it was a line rupture At the well head when I was out of town and the pump ran like a champ (24-7)for a week as near as I could tell by looking at my flexmax charging data pump was fine battery not so much (was 2 weeks b4 someone went our to check my system) so now I disconnect the pump b4 leaving. I installed a toyotomi oil fire point of use water heater last year and I can shower 4 ever w/o worrying about overstressing my system. b4 I had a myers rustler well pump that filled a cistern under my house and I used an rv pump for house pressure because if I tried to run the well off my solar setup it would just kick the inverter off-line. Heck, my 10kw generator barely pushed the thing. now I can do dishes, laundry and showers at the same time and the pump still only runs for about 5 min every 10. I find it a superior product in every way. Normally it now runs off an outback inverter, but it is advertised to do fine on msw, and when I had an emergency last year I ran it on an old trace 2012 with no problems for a couple weeks.
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  • jacknife
    jacknife Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭
    #15
    Re: Off grid well pump system

    with all this talk about power surges, 220v 110v etc, does anyone have any experience with a 24volt DC water pump. It seems to me that a DC pump connected to batteries and a couple of solar panels would be a winner. Though operating as an isolated system may be the key. i believe it would work ,for domestic use of coarse.
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  • NScooknet
    NScooknet Solar Expert Posts: 30 ✭
    #16
    Re: Off grid well pump system

    Hello, I am looking for a 12V well pump that will replace my above ground jet pump.

    I've read as much as I could before posting to try to find a solution, but all the pumps I can find are drilled well or submersible pumps, and my well is a shallow sand point well, so the only pump I can use is a jet pump style above ground pump.

    My goal is to connect this 12V pump parallel to the existing pump with a redirection valve in the plumbing, so I can switch it over when the power goes out, and still have water to my home.

    I have a small solar setup with a couple low wattage panels and a couple deep cycle marine batteries, and I'm about to upgrade this system with a couple more solar panels and batteries, and a better quality controller.

    I know currently my system is not capable of running a pump effectively, so I'm trying to figure out how much I need to invest in my solar system to make the pump work, but I cannot do that until I find a pump and know it's specs and requirements.

    I actually bought a small RV pump online and am awaiting it's shipment, but I am not sure if it will do the job or not, it was the highest power pump I could find that ran off of 12V, but I'm wondering if anyone here has a better suggestion that will work for sure.

    This is the pump I bought:

    http://www.shurflo.com/rv-products/rv-pumps/extreme-series-water-pumps/extreme-series-smart-sensor-57/default.html

    Do you think it will work, is there a better more powerful pump that can run off 12V that would be better?

    Thanks!
    Chris ;)
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  • Windsun
    Windsun Solar Expert Posts: 1,164 ✭✭
    #17
    Re: Off grid well pump system

    There are all kind of surface water pumps that are better than the Shurflo. They generally also cost more of course. http://www.solar-electric.com/dasowapu.html
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #18
    Re: Off grid well pump system

    Not to argue with Windsun, the Shurfol 9300 12/24 vdc submersible is a prett y good pump at a pretty reasonable proce. We use one to pump from the lake, 7 months Of the year it is through the ice. We are into year 5, with no problems,, touch wood.

    Draws~13amps if memory serves.

    T
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  • Windsun
    Windsun Solar Expert Posts: 1,164 ✭✭
    #19
    Re: Off grid well pump system

    He is talking about a surface pump, not a submersible
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  • NScooknet
    NScooknet Solar Expert Posts: 30 ✭
    #20
    Re: Off grid well pump system
    Windsun wrote: »
    He is talking about a surface pump, not a submersible

    Yes, is cannot be a submersible pump, that's the problem.

    Those Dankoff pumps look perfect, but they cost way more than I can afford unfortunately.

    Is there a cheaper alternative to those Dankoff pumps?

    :)
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #21
    Re: Off grid well pump system

    The pump you have ordered will not be able to give you the lift you need. The best you can do is to install a plastic tank \ Barrels and have a reserve storage. The issue with it that you'll have to rotate the water every few weeks or pump to it all the time and then feed your house with the Shur Flo. You need to keep it in the dark so the crud doesn't grow in it. Is it Chlorinated ??, thats a big difference also.

    I have a tank setup and we use the tank a few days a month to keep it fresh.
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  • NScooknet
    NScooknet Solar Expert Posts: 30 ✭
    #22
    Re: Off grid well pump system
    Blackcherry04 wrote: »
    The pump you have ordered will not be able to give you the lift you need. The best you can do is to install a plastic tank \ Barrels and have a reserve storage. The issue with it that you'll have to rotate the water every few weeks or pump to it all the time and then feed your house with the Shur Flo. You need to keep it in the dark so the crud doesn't grow in it. Is it Chlorinated ??, thats a big difference also.

    I have a tank setup and we use the tank a few days a month to keep it fresh.

    I was trying to avoid the extra expense of a storage tank, and hopefully invest as much as I can into the solar power system I'm building bit by bit as I can afford it.

    Also, we live in a rental house, so I'm making everything portable in case we ever leave here, I wish I owned my own house, then I could do alot more to it knowing it's mine and permanent.

    Hmmmm......................
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