My Hydro Co. says they have no capacity for my 3kw system!

heynow999
heynow999 Solar Expert Posts: 80 ✭✭✭✭
in General Solar Power Topics #1
I'm in Ontario where we have the generous 80 cent/kwhr feed-in-tariff. The application process is complicated. There have been many changes to the procedure, and many deadlines for foreign content vs domestic content. I have jumped over all the hurdles so far but with the end finally in sight my local hydro company has dropped a bomb on me.

I have 2.5 kw on my house already and I am trying to incease it by 3.3 kw. I put in my application to the OPA who oversee the program, got approved, installed it, then sent in the paperwork to my hydro company to connect it too the grid. Here is what they said.

"However, some applicants are facing system constraints and will not be able to connect until system upgrades are made.

Based on our analysis, we have determined that your project is impacted by system constraints. We regret to inform you that we are unable to provide you with an offer to connect your microFIT project at this time."

So first problem is I submitted all the paperwork properly and in the correct order so how can they now say I can't connect?

Because my system is a "micro" project there is no "connection impact assessment" so there should be no reason to deny my connection. It is supposed to be a rubber stamp. My system will be 5.8kw which would put out a maximium of 24 amps. I have a 200 amp service with a transformer on my front lawn and the system can't handle 24 amps!!! I am dumbfounded.

My plan of attack is to point out how small the system is, and that I am already connected. Next I will point out that there is not supposed to be a connection impact assessment. The hydro co. is supposed to respond to a connection request in 15 days, they took more than 3 months!

Any other ideas would be appreciated.
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  • Ralph Day
    Ralph Day Solar Expert Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: My Hydro Co. says they have no capacity for my 3kw system!

    Class action law suit.
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  • heynow999
    heynow999 Solar Expert Posts: 80 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
    Re: My Hydro Co. says they have no capacity for my 3kw system!
    Ralph Day wrote: »
    Class action law suit.

    It may come to that. Do you know anyone who is affected? In one short phone call today I heard about eleven people who have completed projects who have been refused a connection. It is going to kill the industry in Ontario. Sad really, so much wasted effort.
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  • heynow999
    heynow999 Solar Expert Posts: 80 ✭✭✭✭
    #4
    Re: My Hydro Co. says they have no capacity for my 3kw system!

    http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/02/12/kelly-mcparland-ontario-quietly-reverses-field-on-wind-solar-energy/

    "Added to McGuinty’s problems with wind are similar signs of trouble on the solar front. After strongly encouraging individual solar projects, and offering outrageously generous pricing on solar-generated power, the province unexpectedly announced last summer it was slashing the rate it would pay on some projects. On Friday, hundreds more Ontarians were told that installations they’d erected at the behest of the government can’t be connected to the provincial grid because of technical problems. Rural residents, some of whom have invested large amounts in solar generating operations, will be left high and dry. The Toronto Star reports:

    “I’ve got $70,000 sitting right out in my backyard,” said Brian Wilson, who lives near Belleville, of his 10-kilowatt solar array. “I can go two doors down and they’ve got $70,000 invested, too.”

    But they’ve both been told that they can’t connect to the electrical grid because of technical issues.

    “It’s a mess,” says Kim Doherty of Farmed Energy Inc., who supplies solar equipment. He started getting calls from clients this week, saying they’d been told no connections are available for their projects.

    One of his clients, a father-and-son team near Strathroy, made a $170,000 down payment on solar equipment, and built four concrete support platforms at a cost of $20,000 each, Doherty said


    Read more: http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/02/12/kelly-mcparland-ontario-quietly-reverses-field-on-wind-solar-energy/#ixzz1DyWEnN4O
    "
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: My Hydro Co. says they have no capacity for my 3kw system!

    "and the system can't handle 24 amps!!! I am dumbfounded". Be even more dumbfounded - - - if your power was to go through the Ontario Hydro transformer, the usual high side voltage is 28,000, which would mean your input current at that point would be a WHOPPING 0.2 AMPS. System upgrade required? Yeah, and the moon is made of green cheese.
    Everything points to the decision to pay 80 cents/kwh being way over the top, attracted far more installation than they ever thought possible, and now they just can't pay.
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #6
    Re: My Hydro Co. says they have no capacity for my 3kw system!

    Next logical step, is the request you do not turn your heaters off, as the sudden surge in surplus power would cause {insert disaster of choice here}
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #7
    Re: My Hydro Co. says they have no capacity for my 3kw system!

    The articles (and searches) do not seem to give a lot of technical information... the refused connections seem to be situated in rural areas (according to the articles). And it is certainly possible that scattered rural areas with lots of PV power could cause a network issue... But the larger numbers refused would seem to be more of a blanket ban across their entire grid (are others still getting their permits/connections at this time)?

    Does anyone have the details (is is really grid limitations) or other stuff (money/politics).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Solar Guppy
    Solar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭
    #8
    Re: My Hydro Co. says they have no capacity for my 3kw system!

    Looks like the Hydro company figured a legal weasel way out of having to pay 10x the retail price for electric ... nothing can be done short of a law being written to enforce the tie-in.

    Start talking to your representatives as they are the only ones that can make something happen. The Hydro CO know exactly what they are doing ....
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #9
    Re: My Hydro Co. says they have no capacity for my 3kw system!

    My American friends;

    You have just got a sampling of the Canadian nightmare known as "Crown Corporations". They aren't answerable to anyone. :cry:

    At least BC Hydro didn't go whacky and offer to pay outrageous sums for grid-tie power. At ten cents per kW hour, our power is absurdly cheap.
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #10
    Re: My Hydro Co. says they have no capacity for my 3kw system!
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    My American friends;

    You have just got a sampling of the Canadian nightmare known as "Crown Corporations". They aren't answerable to anyone. :cry:

    At least BC Hydro didn't go whacky and offer to pay outrageous sums for grid-tie power. At ten cents per kW hour, our power is absurdly cheap.

    really?:confused:

    what do you call this from the op?

    "I'm in Ontario where we have the generous 80 cent/kwhr feed-in-tariff."
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #11
    Re: My Hydro Co. says they have no capacity for my 3kw system!
    niel wrote: »
    really?:confused:

    what do you call this from the op?

    "I'm in Ontario where we have the generous 80 cent/kwhr feed-in-tariff."

    I call it proof that Ontario Hydro is run by people who can't do basic math. :p

    It's interesting to think that the high pay-out attracted so many solar installs that they've now become a problem for a power company that large. I doubt the problem is the grid can't handle the influx of private power, most of which would simply negate usage along the "loops" and reduce current flow from substations. It sure looks like a monetary "we goofed" situation to me.
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  • Ralph Day
    Ralph Day Solar Expert Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭✭
    #12
    Re: My Hydro Co. says they have no capacity for my 3kw system!

    Ah Marc,
    You are looking at the big monolithic utility entity first...what/who stands behind them making the decisions? The provincial government with the Green Energy Act which gave birth to the Ontario Power Authority who determines how the fit program works (contracts, payments for various renewable energies...wind, solar, hydro, bio). OPA contracts with you to produce power which (until most recently) the Local Distribution Company (LDC) must purchase. The LDC has found a way to monkey wrench the process (Hydro One).

    I'll bet if you wanted to upgrade your electric service to heat with electricity there would be no service constraints affecting your plans. Maybe they want all microFIT connections to have new transformers or something? All is not clear.

    Ralph
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