Goodbye Incandescents - not yet

CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
The Government of British Columbia has banned stores from restocking certain incandescent light bulbs as of January 1, 2011. This means when the existing stock runs out there will be no more sales of those bulbs. Apparently the ban applies only to 75 and 100 Watt lights. Since I use mostly 60 Watt where I use incandescents it doesn't bother me. However ...

It doesn't apply to larger bulbs, which means you can replace that 100W with a 150W and get lots of light and use even more power than before. Well-thought-out, eh?

Many stores, it seems, are under the impression it applies to all incandescent bulbs. That won't help their bottom line any.

Now BC residents have to travel to Washington to buy light bulbs. They already go there to get affordable everything else. How much energy and pollution is that saving?

This appears to be another example of a Government trying to do something "green" and instead doing something "brown".

Feel free to discuss.
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Comments

  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Goodbye Incandescents - not yet

    well, we can understand that they want to do something good, but as usual their ignorance actually makes things worse because one either uses more electric with a bigger bulb or burns up some gasoline to travel where they can be gotten from.:cry:
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Goodbye Incandescents - not yet

    I should add that there wasn't any real need for this ban: CFL's sell very well here, and have been embraced by the populace for their energy-saving characteristics. It helps that BC Hydro got them introduced with rebates. LED Christmas lights are also very popular, and no doubt people will go for LED house lights if they ever introduce any that are actually affordable.

    I really dislike the legislative removal of choice. It says "you people are too stupid to figure this out for yourselves" - when in fact they mostly already had.
  • n3qikn3qik Solar Expert Posts: 741 ✭✭
    Re: Goodbye Incandescents - not yet

    The government can do some straing things.

    I am down to 5 incandescent,
    2- in attic
    1- in outside flood
    1- in fridge
    1- in vacuum cleaner

    Some years ago, the US switched to ultra-low surfer fuel. Thought this was not good. Well, my Jeep like this. No more black smoke from a stop. Thou I did like crop-dusting others, if you stopped too close to me at a red light.
  • solarvicsolarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Goodbye Incandescents - not yet

    n3qik, I got you beat. I am down to 3 incandesents. I= clothes dryer, 1= oven and 1 in freeezer part 0f fridge. :DSolarvic:D Forgot microwave still has incandecant bulb.
  • n3qikn3qik Solar Expert Posts: 741 ✭✭
    Re: Goodbye Incandescents - not yet

    Dang, forgot about the dryer. Now up to 6. Have a microwave also, but has not been used in years.
  • waynefromnscanadawaynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Goodbye Incandescents - not yet

    Except for Freezer and microwave, there hasn't been an incandescent in use at my house for probably 15 years. Even the old 4 foot florescents are gone. Everything is either CFL or LED. The ones that are on all evening every evening, are LED. I like the LEDs for outside because even in the coldest winter nights, they're instant on full brightness.
    Unfortunately, like the anti-vaccine movement, there is an anti-incandescent movement, still very much alive and active, practicing scare-mongering using similar techniques. It's a whole lot easier to scare people about new things, than it is to regain their confidence.
    Too bad it wasn't as easy to scare people about tobacco use as it is to scare them about the horrors of cell phones, vaccines, power lines, wind turbines and CFLs. I'm waiting to be "educated" on the horrors of using LED lights. The first big scare stories should emerge any day now, and the media will be so happy to run with them. Yes, we've been using LEDs for decades, but never to light our homes! Just think of the terrible things it could cause! It's my bet they're either going to weld our eyelids shut, or give us eye cancer. Would be funny if it weren't so sad.
  • Wayne123Wayne123 Registered Users Posts: 6
    Re: Goodbye Incandescents - not yet

    I have been switching my house to LED lighting for a few years now, the new very strange looking Phillips 60w equivalent LED bulbs work really well but at $40 a pop many people will not be so eager to buy them.
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,400 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Goodbye Incandescents - not yet

    I beat you all! I have dozens of incandescents still around. I use them to put a load on my 5 kw lister generator when I run it, which is about once every three years!

    In the house, we have none, the fridge had one, but it burned out (12 vt) and I never got around to replacing it. On the other hand, I have a number of flashlights with conventional bulbs still!

    T
  • john pjohn p Solar Expert Posts: 814 ✭✭✭
    Re: Goodbye Incandescents - not yet

    Icarus in the interests of public safety and well being of whales I have had to report you to the Incandescent Police.. Sorry to have done this to you but its for you own good and the welfare of mankind.
  • petertearaipetertearai Solar Expert Posts: 437 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Goodbye Incandescents - not yet

    In Newzealand the government tryed to ban incandescents an replace with energy efficient halogens. They gave up ,there was a lot of misinformation about these lamps even though the light was essentially the same as standard incandescents.
    Of course compact flouros are even more efficient.
    2225 wattts pv . Outback 2kw  fxr pure sine inverter . fm80 charge controller . Mate 3. victron battery monitor . 24 volts  in 2 volt Shoto lead carbon extreme batterys. off grid  holiday home 
  • MisterBMisterB Solar Expert Posts: 156 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Goodbye Incandescents - not yet

    I actually have a couple of lights that use 12 volt 1.2 watt incandescent flashlight bulbs that I use in conjunction with LED lights because I like the yellow/orange spectra of incandescents much more than the blue/white spectra of the LEDs. And for serious work lights, I use halogen lights which I read are no longer allowed in parts of Europe. They give you a lot more light per watt than tungsten filiment incandescents and are reasonably priced. I see no reason that they should be pulled from the market.

    Stupid politics really. Now there's going to be an undergound market in incandcescent bulbs smuggled in from the US in B.C. If your government just put a serious tax on incandescents and subsidized LEDs, it would probably work a lot better.
  • Wayne123Wayne123 Registered Users Posts: 6
    Re: Goodbye Incandescents - not yet
    MisterB wrote: »
    I actually have a couple of lights that use 12 volt 1.2 watt incandescent flashlight bulbs that I use in conjunction with LED lights because I like the yellow/orange spectra of incandescents much more than the blue/white spectra of the LEDs.


    I have been able to find LED bulbs that have nice color for awhile now, the Phillips bulbs I mentioned in an earlier post have very nice light and they are also dimmable.
    Here is a link to the bulbs I have bought recently.
    http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-20004766-54.html
  • russruss Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    Re: Goodbye Incandescents - not yet

    The incandescent thing is one of the rare things done reasonably well by the gov. No ban but forced efficiency improvement for the most popular sizes.

    Halogen have a lower efficacy than incandescent - at least the typical halogen does - that would be the reason they are in problems in Europe if they are. It would be either all of Europe or none as these are not country laws but EU laws.

    Agreed with Wayne - Unfortunately, like the anti-vaccine movement, there is an anti-incandescent movement, still very much alive and active, practicing scare-mongering using similar techniques. It's a whole lot easier to scare people about new things, than it is to regain their confidence.

    If you get some momentum for a movement all logic, science and reason goes away.

    Russ
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,752 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Goodbye Incandescents - not yet
    russ wrote: »
    Halogen have a lower efficacy than incandescent - at least the typical halogen does


    ???? Not sure where you are, but on the planet I live on, halogen bulbs are about 15% more efficient , and with a whiter light. And they can be dimmed with a standard dimmer (if the socket is wired properly - some halogen bulbs have a diode that interacts with the dimmer if hot and neutral are wrong) I've replaced several 75 & 100 w bulbs with 60w halogens (and they last longer too)

    60 Watt, 120 Volt BT15 Halogen Clear Bulb
    60w 3,000 hrs 1,080 Lumens

    plain incandescent: (60 Watt, 120 Volt A19 Frosted Bulb)
    60w 1,000 hrs 890 Lumens
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  • MisterBMisterB Solar Expert Posts: 156 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Goodbye Incandescents - not yet
    Wayne123 wrote: »
    I have been able to find LED bulbs that have nice color for awhile now, the Phillips bulbs I mentioned in an earlier post have very nice light and they are also dimmable.
    Here is a link to the bulbs I have bought recently.
    http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-20004766-54.html

    LEDs have improved a lot over the last few years. I look at the LEDs themselves available from suppliers and there are yellow white LEDs and LEDs with a lot higher output in a 5mm package.
    Halogen have a lower efficacy than incandescent - at least the typical halogen does - that would be the reason they are in problems in Europe if they are. It would be either all of Europe or none as these are not country laws but EU laws.

    I think this was in Germany and Denmark. Eu countries still have a lot of sovereignty.

    One reason I use Halogens is that my lighting is 12 volt and they are the by far the best and brightest 12v lights available. I like it that they are bright and hot. I get a lot of light out of a 10 watt halogen bulb while ten watts of incandescent light is dim and not very useful for working.

    It is really a question of choice. If you want to own a muscle car with a v8 engine and pay for gas at 7-8mpg, it is your choice. The price of gasoline is enough of a limiting factor already. It's the same with light bulbs. If you like incandescent lights and are willing to pay for the power to run them, you should be allowed to. Standard incandescents are being replaced by other forms of lighting just due to market forces. 30 years ago, there weren't that many alternatives to incandescent bulbs available. These days, there are and they are being used more and more without direct government intervention.
  • russruss Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    Re: Goodbye Incandescents - not yet
    mike90045 wrote: »
    ???? Not sure where you are, but on the planet I live on, halogen bulbs are about 15% more efficient , and with a whiter light. And they can be dimmed with a standard dimmer (if the socket is wired properly - some halogen bulbs have a diode that interacts with the dimmer if hot and neutral are wrong) I've replaced several 75 & 100 w bulbs with 60w halogens (and they last longer too)

    I was typing when I should have been thinking. :blush:The typical halogen does better than an incandescent - but still poor in relation to CFLs or LEDs.

    They do give off a light that is desirable in many circumstances.

    Russ
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,752 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Goodbye Incandescents - not yet
    russ wrote: »
    I was typing when I should have been thinking. :blush:


    I was worried for a while, I looked at the poster, looked again at the post, thought for a while, and thought again, and well, sometime it will be my turn to wear egg on my face too.:D
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    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

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    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • n3qikn3qik Solar Expert Posts: 741 ✭✭
    Re: Goodbye Incandescents - not yet

    Read this news today from Cree.

    http://www.truewhitelight.com/
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Goodbye Incandescents - not yet

    Just a thought about the CREE bulbs....

    Does PF (power factor) apply to these units? or are they 100% efficient?:confused:

    e
     
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  • MisterBMisterB Solar Expert Posts: 156 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Goodbye Incandescents - not yet

    800+ lumens at less than 10 watts with attention paid to spectra, well designed heat sink and an omnidirectional light pattern, I'm impressed. LED lighting is the way of the future.

    And there is no transfer of energy that is 100% effecient. If these bulbs converted 100% of the electric current put into them into light, there would be no need for the heat sink. Still these, from the outside look very good. The heat sink around the base is very good design both functionally and aestically.
  • ggunnggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    Re: Goodbye Incandescents - not yet

    I still have a few incandescents, though I am phasing them out as they fail. One application, though, for which an incandescent is better than LED or CFL is that of keeping plants from freezing outside in weather like we are having at the moment.
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Goodbye Incandescents - not yet
    ggunn wrote: »
    I still have a few incandescents, though I am phasing them out as they fail. One application, though, for which an incandescent is better than LED or CFL is that of keeping plants from freezing outside in weather like we are having at the moment.

    Yes indeed!
    I'm adding thermostatically controlled incandescents to my "cold room" because when it gets to -30C or so outside things freeze and burst in there.

    And how good would a CFL be in a trouble light? Not very resistant to shock, and hazardous if they break open. LED's are still far too expensive here to be considered a practical alternative.

    Passing legislation to force change whether it's a good idea or not: a part of Canadian heritage since Pierre Trudeau. :p
  • dreesdrees Solar Expert Posts: 481 ✭✭✭
    Re: Goodbye Incandescents - not yet
    n3qik wrote: »
    Read this news today from Cree.

    http://www.truewhitelight.com/
    < 10w and 800 lumens - that's pretty darn good! I wonder what the price will be.

    There are two other good "standard" LED bulbs on the market right now:

    EcoSmart A19 (HomeDepot): $18 ~9W and 430 lumens
    Philips 12w A19: $40 ~12W and 800 lumens

    I have tried the EcoSmart A19 - the light is still a bit directional (a bit focused up) compared to a regular or CFL bulb. Similar light output as compared to a 9W CFL.

    Cree has an E26 canlight at $50, 10.5W and 575 lumens - I'm going to have to guess that this new Cree A19 bulb will be similar in price - $40-$50.

    Philips has to be seriously worried about this bulb and will either have to reduce the price or improve the bulb to compete.
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,400 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Goodbye Incandescents - not yet
    and how good would a CFL be in a trouble light? Not very resistant to shock, and hazardous if they break open.

    Actually I have found that CFLs are better in trouble lights for a variety of reasons. I think the handle a drop better than a conventional, and if they break there is much less risk of igniting fumes if you are working around gasoline or propane.

    Tony
  • keyturbocarskeyturbocars Solar Expert Posts: 375 ✭✭
    Re: Goodbye Incandescents - not yet

    I just picked up 4 more of the EcoSmart A19 LED bulbs at Home Depot today. I like them and the price of $18 is tolerable.

    I bought 4 of them a couple months ago, and I've been happy with the way they perform, so I switched out 4 more. Like many of you, I've got CFL's in most other places in my home. I'm just using the LED in open fixtures in certain places for now. I don't think they would like enclosed fixtures with the heat build up. I'm impressed with them so far. They are "assembled in the USA" and quality seems to be very good. As some hace said, they are a bit directional.

    I'm a bit of a light addict. My wife wonders why I'm constantly buying different light bulbs (or flash lights). :roll:

    Edward
  • russruss Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    Re: Goodbye Incandescents - not yet

    Come on guys! The small amount of mercury in one CFL to be considered a health hazard?

    I clean up the glass and don't worry about the rest of it. We used to play with the stuff (mercury) as kids and İ worked with years later. The EPA can kiss the spot marked.

    A green scare thing as far as I am concerned.

    Maybe a landfill is a bit more of a concern but even there - how many CFLs do you consider would be dumped per cubic meter?

    Russ
  • SteveKSteveK Solar Expert Posts: 277 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Goodbye Incandescents - not yet

    My young daughter is gonna be seriously p*ssed-off if she has to use those CFL's in her Easy Bake Oven.

    And what about those special "snacky cakes" she passes on to me!!!!

    Oh the horror.....
  • Wayne123Wayne123 Registered Users Posts: 6
    Re: Goodbye Incandescents - not yet
    drees wrote: »
    Philips has to be seriously worried about this bulb and will either have to reduce the price or improve the bulb to compete.

    I have some of the Phillips bulbs, they work very well and have an omnidirectional light pattern, $40 each is a bit high but it should come down as more people buy them, 800 lumens and 12.5w is still pretty good.
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Goodbye Incandescents - not yet
    Wayne123 wrote: »
    I have some of the Phillips bulbs, they work very well and have an omnidirectional light pattern, $40 each is a bit high but it should come down as more people buy them, 800 lumens and 12.5w is still pretty good.

    You know, if you told most people that you spent $40 or even $18 on one light bulb they'd ask: "ARE YOU CRAZY?" :p

    That $40 would be 400 kW hours of electric here. That's a lot of light. But CFL's started out in the "outrageous" zone and soon became a practical alternative to incandescents. I just don't think it ought to be legislated mandatory. What next? Diesel is more fuel-efficient than gasoline, so let's outlaw all gasoline cars? They just don't think these things through very well.

    I'm going to buy an LED bulb next time I go South (not available here yet) and put it in a lamp with the meter on just to see how it does. I'm sure my wife will critique the quality of the light for me. :roll:
  • russruss Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    Re: Goodbye Incandescents - not yet

    All the big boys seem to be making high quality LED lamps - The price on them being is just like anything else when new - sky high and then competition drives it down.

    I expect Edison's first customers had the same complaint.
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