which generator is best

dwh · November 2010

Re: which generator is best

Aye. Unbond the neutral from ground at the generator. Bypass the GFCI.

And forget the double male extension cord! If one end is in the generator and the other end comes unplugged - that end will have HOT PINS exposed. Bad news if grandmas cat gets curious and sticks its nose on it.

lotek · November 2010

Re: which generator is best

I could dream the cat would get fried, It craps in my shoe. but darn, I have locking plug connectors
where would be the best place to post my questions on the xantrex auto gen start? the Briggs generator isnt listed in the owner manual wiring types

BB. · November 2010

Re: which generator is best

Pick a place that makes sense to you--We are not strict. Off Grid Solar section is fine.

-Bill

dwh · November 2010

Re: which generator is best

lotek wrote: »

but darn, I have locking plug connectors

I'd still use them, but I'd use a normal type extension cord and let the pins be on the load so if anything comes undone, there won't be any hot pins sticking out.

tonystewart · November 2010

Re: which generator is best

Anyone considered a Kubota GL11000 ? I bought mine during the South Florida hurricanes and it is very quiet, reliable, easy starting and can accept an autostart controller. It will start a 5 ton ac with no problems. I use Mobil Delvac 1 in the crankcase and Redline RL3 diesel ignition improver in the fuel. Smooth running and self contained. And very fuel efficient.

Vic · November 2010

Re: which generator is best

tonystewart,

I did look at the GL series of Kubotas, before deciding on my Kubota SQ 3250. Think that any of the real Kubota gensets are great. My SQ 3250 is very; quiet, reliable, heavy duty, configurable, AND fuel-stingy.

Some of the less expensive Diesels, like the Mulitquip MQ line, make poor utilization of the engine's capability when configured for Split-Phase -- Zig Zag. The common MQ 25 KVA Diesel genset is only good for 14.4 KW split phase. The Kubota 25 KVA unit does 21-ish KW in split phase configuration.

Always a fun topic. Good Luck

tonystewart · November 2010

Re: which generator is best

Good afternoon Vic

That is an outstanding generator, I would consider it for my future. My neighbor has an SQ33 with autostart, they added a 150 gallon tank to support the built in 20 gallon (I think). It is quieter than my 11 kw which I feel is very quiet.

Pour a pad, bolt it down and feed it fuel. Nice complete quiet package

whitestrabbit · December 2010

Re: which generator is best

BB - None of the small Honda's (euX000i) series (even the ex3000i with electric start) is suitable for autostart.

Honda EX3300 or EX4500 will work with autostart. This is an older model Honda. I have been running an EX3300 with autostart wired through optional remote (which I ordered separately from Honda) and Xantrex AGS (auto gen start). My EX3300 starter motor melted yesterday and Honda wants $330 for it. I paid $800 used for the whole generator 10 years ago and it has between 4,000-5,000 hours on it so not sure it's worth fixing with that many hours. But I certainly got my $800 worth out of this Honda so debating whether to get another used EX4500 (found one for $1,000), a diesel, or a larger propane unit like Kohler 8.5RES. Based on my experience with the Honda I hate to drop alot of money on a larger unit, but I would like to go to propane or diesel. I've seen propane conversions for the Hondas online for a few hundred bucks - not sure how well they work though.

One issue I've had is that Xantrex XW6048 doesn't seem to like a generator smaller than 6kW. My generator breaker is 14A. When I set my generator breaker (AC2) size in XW6048 to 14A it will only charge up to about 1700W instead of closer to 3000W. I have tried to troubleshoot with Xantrex. They had me increase my breaker size setting to 18A which allows it to charge at around 3,000W (AC2) but then I occasionally get nuisance tripping. Seems like a Xantrex bug to me but so far they haven't been able to help. Has anyone else had similar issues with XW6048 and a smaller generator (less than 6kW inverter rating) ? Xantrex responds that I should really get a generator larger than 6kW.

twistedtree · December 2010

Re: which generator is best

I'll add a 3rd thumbs up on the Kubota SQ series. I've got an SQ 1140 and it's been great. They are quiet, self-contained, built like a brick outhouse, and all the maintenance parts are readily available form any kubota dealer. I also find it easier than many generators to integrate it into a building. All the exhaust air comes out one place so you can duct it if you want, and it's easy to pipe the exhaust as well. It takes a little effort, but they can be tied into an autostart controller from most inverter systems. Mine is on an XW AGS. Keep in mind that diesels have fuel consumption that is more proportional to load. Where a gas or propane generator will burn 50% or so of it's max fuel rate an no load, and diesel will be down around 20%. It's the nature of the beast.

Next step for me is to tie it into my 275 gal diesel tank so I don't have to keep filling the built-in tank.

twistedtree · December 2010

Re: which generator is best

On the neutral and ground issue, that's a typical problem with a portable genset, and one of the reasons manufacturers won't support their products in an off-grid installation.

Ground and neutral MUST be tied together, and it MUST be done in ONLY one place. In a house it's done at the main electric panel. In a portable genset, it's done in the genset. Combining the two gives you two ground/neutral connections which isn't allowed.

As others have outlined, the solution is simple - just disconnect the neutral/ground connection in the genset and you are good to go.

keyturbocars · December 2010

Re: which generator is best

I know that this thread first started a long time ago, but I'll put in my vote for the best generator as an older Onan diesel generator. I'm referring to the DJB, DJC, or DJE series. Air cooled, diesel engines that are massive, heavy chunks of cast iron designed to run, run, & run. When I was researching generators and reading extensively, I read about the testimony of so many people that spoke to the reliability and longevity of these generators. I would say the "extended stack" models (which can output full rated output both in 3 phase mode and in single phase mode) are the best. I picked up a 6.0 DJE that had the extended stack generator end at a state government auction. Needed some work, but it turned out to be a real nice generator. It was one of the latest production runs of these diesel air cooled gensets, and low hours as it was just set up for backup power at a radio communications site. Good fuel efficiency, good power output (conservatively rated), and legendary reliability.

The biggest problem is that these Onan generators can be hard to find in good condition. Also, they are not the quietest generators. They are very heavy. Being air cooled adds to the noise, but it can also add to the longevity of these engines because there is no liquid cooling system to fail and lead to catastrophic engine failure. In my opinion, the simplicity and reliability of these engines is hard to beat. I've seen these diesel gensets in 3kW, 6kW (like mine), 12kW, 15kW, and not sure how much bigger the DJ series went.

They don't make 'em like they used to...

Edward

mike95490 · December 2010

Re: which generator is best

twistedtree wrote: »

Next step for me is to tie it into my 275 gal diesel tank so I don't have to keep filling the built-in tank.

Nooooo You really need to filter the fuel coming out of that big tank, before you get it into your "day tank" on the genset. Large tanks of diesel get all sorts of crud growing in them.

Ralph Day · December 2010

Re: which generator is best

Growing in them Mike?! I've never heard of stuff growing in fuel. When I got my diesel genset it hadn't been used in many years and the fuel in the filter was the consistency of liquid honey. The little primer pump cleared the system out and it ran, with a nice plume of white smoke to start with.

Does it have to do with stagnation? Farmers/quarries etc have large tanks around all the time. I have 2x 45gal drums, use one one year and the other the next with no problems.

Ralph

BB. · December 2010

Re: which generator is best

Yep you will get biological growth with diesel fuel:

Algae, microbes, and water contamination There has been much discussion and misunderstanding of algae in diesel fuel.[22] Algae need light to live and grow. As there is no sunlight in a closed fuel tank, no algae can survive. But some microbes can survive and feed on the diesel fuel.
These microbes form a colony that lives at the interface of fuel and water. They grow quite fast in warmer temperature. They can even grow in cold weather when fuel tank heaters are installed. Parts of the colony can break off and clog the fuel lines and fuel filters.
It is possible to either kill this growth with a biocide treatment, or eliminate the water, a necessary component of microbial life. There are a number of biocides on the market, which must be handled very carefully. If a biocide is used, it must be added every time a tank is refilled until the problem is fully resolved.I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed"]citation needed[/URL][/I
Biocides attack the cell wall of microbes resulting in lysis, the death of a cell by bursting. The dead cells then gather on the bottom of the fuel tanks and form a sludge; filter clogging will continue after biocide treatment until the sludge abates.I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed"]citation needed[/URL][/I
Given the right conditions, microbes will repopulate the tanks, and re-treatment with biocides will be necessary. With repetitive biocide treatments, microbes can form resistance to a particular brand. Trying another brand of biocide with another antibiotic may resolve the problem.I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed"]citation needed[/URL][/I

-Bill

Vic · December 2010

Re: which generator is best

Thanks for the added info, Bill,

Have had good luck with the biocides, altho, had not even considered any immunity that micorbes might develop.

Water is the killer, and trying to keep the tanks as full as possible helps to keep atmospheric water out of the tank as it breathes. However it is really a problem keeping all tanks full.

That said, Diesel engines are a great alternative for gensets and heavy duty applications. Vic

twistedtree · December 2010

Re: which generator is best

mike90045 wrote: »

Nooooo You really need to filter the fuel coming out of that big tank, before you get it into your "day tank" on the genset. Large tanks of diesel get all sorts of crud growing in them.

Don't worry, I'll make sure it's filtered. There are already two filters/water separators in place. I might add another, but need to be sure the pump can handle it and/or add a supplemental pump.

Boats are the worst. At least this 275gal tank stands still. Boat tanks get swished and swirled and stir up all the crud, so filtering is super critical. On my boat I've got tandem 10 micron filters and water separators with a selector valve and vacuum gauge and water alarms. As soon as the vacuum level indicates filter blockage, or the water alarm goes off, you throw the valve to switch to the other filter, then change the plugged one while underway. All that is before the fuel gets to a 2 micron on-engine filter and water separator that is also alarmed. I think every book I've read about power boats getting into trouble involves stirred up crud in fuel tanks, plugged filters, and power loss. Then things turn really bad. I carry a dozen filters. But I digress...

monoloco · December 2010

Re: which generator is best

keyturbocars wrote: »

I know that this thread first started a long time ago, but I'll put in my vote for the best generator as an older Onan diesel generator. I'm referring to the DJB, DJC, or DJE series. Air cooled, diesel engines that are massive, heavy chunks of cast iron designed to run, run, & run. When I was researching generators and reading extensively, I read about the testimony of so many people that spoke to the reliability and longevity of these generators. I would say the "extended stack" models (which can output full rated output both in 3 phase mode and in single phase mode) are the best. I picked up a 6.0 DJE that had the extended stack generator end at a state government auction. Needed some work, but it turned out to be a real nice generator. It was one of the latest production runs of these diesel air cooled gensets, and low hours as it was just set up for backup power at a radio communications site. Good fuel efficiency, good power output (conservatively rated), and legendary reliability.

The biggest problem is that these Onan generators can be hard to find in good condition. Also, they are not the quietest generators. They are very heavy. Being air cooled adds to the noise, but it can also add to the longevity of these engines because there is no liquid cooling system to fail and lead to catastrophic engine failure. In my opinion, the simplicity and reliability of these engines is hard to beat. I've seen these diesel gensets in 3kW, 6kW (like mine), 12kW, 15kW, and not sure how much bigger the DJ series went.

They don't make 'em like they used to...

Edward

I have that same generator but it is so loud the neighbors have a fit. Have you found any way to make it quieter?

keyturbocars · December 2010

Re: which generator is best

Monoloco,

My nearest neighbors are the coyotes!

I don't live near any of my neighbors, so noise is not a big issue where I live. I have my generator set up in my shop and then pipe the exhaust out. With a big muffler, the exhaust noise is quite low, but the greatest noise comes from the engine itself. Because it's not liquid cooled and doesn't have a water jacked to help dampen noise, I think that is partly why they are noisy. I imagine the cooling fins of the air cooled engine transmit a lot of noise vibrations to the air.

Do you have a muffler on your Onan?

Is your generator set up inside an enclosure or shed?

Edward

icarus · December 2010

Re: which generator is best

We deep sixed a 12 kw aircooled Onan a few years ago. It was very noisy, and it wasn't the exhaust, just plain engine noise. A well baffled, vented, sound insulated inclosure helps. I can't remember if you can set these Onans up to run with vacu-flow fans or not. You might find some useful ideas here.

http://www.smokstak.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=1

These guys are the experts on Onans of every description.

Tony

monoloco · December 2010

Re: which generator is best

keyturbocars wrote: »

Monoloco,

My nearest neighbors are the coyotes! I don't live near any of my neighbors, so noise is not a big issue where I live. I have my generator set up in my shop and then pipe the exhaust out. With a big muffler, the exhaust noise is quite low, but the greatest noise comes from the engine itself. Because it's not liquid cooled and doesn't have a water jacked to help dampen noise, I think that is partly why they are noisy. I imagine the cooling fins of the air cooled engine transmit a lot of noise vibrations to the air.

Do you have a muffler on your Onan?

Is your generator set up inside an enclosure or shed?

Edward

Yeah, it has a small muffler. I,d like to build an enclosure and was wondering if I ran the exhaust pipe under the ground for a ways if it would effectively muffle it. The generator that I have says McGraw Edison on it but has no model # anywhere that I can find. I haven't fired it up for about 5 years but I am planning on setting it up to run the shop at my new off grid house.

stephendv · December 2010

Re: which generator is best

I built an underground baffle system for my single cylinder 1500rpm diesel and it made a WORLD of difference to the sound. Depth is important though, I recently uncovered it to check for a blockage and when I recovered it I didn't put as much earth on top - and it's noticeably louder now.
Burying under at least 40cm of earth worked best.
Pics here: http://www.casanogaldelasbrujas.com/blog/2010/01/26/exhaust-silencer-version-2-0/

monoloco · December 2010

Re: which generator is best

stephendv wrote: »

I built an underground baffle system for my single cylinder 1500rpm diesel and it made a WORLD of difference to the sound. Depth is important though, I recently uncovered it to check for a blockage and when I recovered it I didn't put as much earth on top - and it's noticeably louder now.
Burying under at least 40cm of earth worked best.
Pics here: http://www.casanogaldelasbrujas.com/blog/2010/01/26/exhaust-silencer-version-2-0/

Thanks for that, it looks like you have a great spot there!

mike95490 · December 2010

Re: which generator is best

stephendv wrote: »

I built an underground baffle system for my single cylinder 1500rpm diesel ........ I recently uncovered it to check for a blockage ....

So the ex just filters around in the dirt and eventually escapes ?

Whe you dug it out, did you notice carbon lumps or any goo ??

stephendv · December 2010

Re: which generator is best

There's a clearly defined escape path that snakes around the blocks in a zig-zag way, with a tube acting as chimney at the end. The blocks are placed at odd angles to help break up the low bass sound. The sand was there for extra absorbtion, but don't really know if it's doing anything, I think the baffle system and the earth on top does most of the work.

EDIT: When I dug it out, I didn't go as far as checking underneath the concrete lid, so don't know if there's any build up. I wouldn't have thought there would be as it's basically acting as normal exhaust, just longer and with more twists.

Mangas · December 2010

Re: which generator is best

Sidebar, I am considerding replacing my Generac 15 kw 1800 rpm propane unit sometime in the future with the new series Cummins Onan RS20000 20 kW Generator with brushless excitation.

I wish they'd build it in a 15 kw but so far they don't. I need to find out about parts availability. Generac has a pretty good line to parts which I've never had a problem getting.

which generator is best

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