UGE 4KW Vertical Axis Wind Turbine

MaineOFFGRID
MaineOFFGRID Registered Users Posts: 12
Hey has anyone use this Vertical wind turbine? Im currently outfitting my OFFGRID home and im thinking about installing 1 of these on the roof to start. My avg windspeed is between 7-8m/s...

If anyone has used this model or can give me any insight about vertical turbines or maybe where to find more efficient ones im all ears...

So I plan to mount that on the house then hook it up to the Xantex xw with the 6000w inverter/charger then get a auto generator starter just for backup... how big of a battery bank am i going to need? and what types of battery's are the best? im new to this got the idea but i want input from the pros.

heres the link to the xantrex base im ordering http://store.oynot.com/xaxw48vin1.html

eventually im going to order a pallet of sanyo hitpanels the 215 or 220s my goal is to pretty much never have to fire the generator up and run 100% offgrid using wind/solar power.

i need input please chime in let me know what you guys think!!

-Bob

Comments

  • MaineOFFGRID
    MaineOFFGRID Registered Users Posts: 12
    UGE 4KW Vertical Axis Wind Turbine

    http://www.urbangreenenergy.com/turbines.php?id=4

    heres the wind turbine
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: UGE 4KW Vertical Axis Wind Turbine

    Here was this short thread about the UGE--No direct information:

    Does this forum cover wind energy?

    My two cents--Don't mount the turbine to your home. It will be noisy and possibly structurally unsafe from the wind loads and vibration.

    Any wind turbine needs lots of wind--siting is critical and they need to be on 30-60 foot+ tower, 300-500 feet away and 30' above any obstructions.

    8 m/s is around 17.9 MPH--We have some pretty windy locations around our area (ridge lines, coastal bluffs)--and that is a heck of an average wind. Have you measured that level of wind or is this an estimate/using charts for your area... Most charts are for much higher tower elevations than the usual 10-20 meter 30/60 feet that home systems usually install.

    In general, I would suggest waiting until they can give you some customer references with 1+ years of continuous operation--along with a power log with, at least, monthly verified data.

    Note that, many times, the wind turbine is less than 1/2 the cost of installation. Tower, concrete base, wiring, controllers, etc. all make for some expensive installations. Plus the yearly (+/-) access to the turbine to check hardware, lubricate, etc. as needed.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • MaineOFFGRID
    MaineOFFGRID Registered Users Posts: 12
    Re: UGE 4KW Vertical Axis Wind Turbine

    we framed the house with the intention of mounting it on the roof so the structure will hold.. its rated at 31db at 10m/s so i doubt we will here much even on the ground outside..

    Im going to contact the company tomorrow and see if they have any reports for me. thanks
  • keyturbocars
    keyturbocars Solar Expert Posts: 375 ✭✭
    Re: UGE 4KW Vertical Axis Wind Turbine

    What is the going price on that UGE 4kW VAWT?
  • stephendv
    stephendv Solar Expert Posts: 1,571 ✭✭
    Re: UGE 4KW Vertical Axis Wind Turbine

    Strange how the VAWT manufacturers keep claiming that their turbines are better in low wind conditions, but if you compare the power graph of the 4KW UGE and the 3kW horizontal Exmork, the Exmork does better at low wind:
    http://www.exmork.com/3kw-wind-turbine.htm probably a bundle cheaper too.

    http://www.urbangreenenergy.com/turbines.php?id=4
  • russ
    russ Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    Re: UGE 4KW Vertical Axis Wind Turbine

    @ Maine - Check out Paul Gipe's site - he is one of the real wind experts and see what he has to say about VAWTs. www.wind-works.org

    The short story is if you have adequate wind for a wind turbine to operate you are fantastically better off with a HAWT from a reputable manufacturer.

    There will be vibrations - no matter what the company says. Impossible not to have them. On a wood structure that is a no-no.

    Sound level - seeing the rest of their propaganda I tend to doubt the sound claims.

    For siting, VAWT type of turbines are often too low to benefit from available wind.

    1) Wind shade calculator (Danish Wind) http://www.talentfactory.dk/en/tour/wres/shelter/index.htm
    2) Wind measurement http://www.windmeasurementinternational.com/wind-analysis/wind-shelter.php
    3) Site Selection Guide http://www.solacity.com/SiteSelection.htm

    Russ
  • MaineOFFGRID
    MaineOFFGRID Registered Users Posts: 12
    Re: UGE 4KW Vertical Axis Wind Turbine

    im going to wait on the VAWT.. well then i guess my next question would be

    Who makes a good reliable HAWT? for a good price? My home is 2000sqft and my monthly khw is going to be around 1000-1500. So im thinking im going to need at least a 6-10kw turbine.. Not trying to spend more then 30k.

    Also id like to setup a battery bank that will give me 3-5 days of power without solar/wind or charge from gen. How big of a battery bank would i need to do this?

    And how long is it going to take to charge a bank that fits these needs? Im going to have a 60kw john deere diesel gen available bigger the gen quicker the charge?

    also have 2 6kw propane gens...

    All i want is power to my home without it ever running out! I get nervous with wind/solar power so i want to set it up so i can run my setup with just a gen and battery bank if ever needed.

    and i checked the windmap, at 50m it avgs 7m/s my buidling location is set on 65 acres and its pretty well elevated i was thinking if i dont do the VAWT i could go get a 30m tower that should put me up close to the 7 m/s
  • MaineOFFGRID
    MaineOFFGRID Registered Users Posts: 12
    Re: UGE 4KW Vertical Axis Wind Turbine

    Just found this 30kw wind turbine for 25k cut in speed of 2.5 m/s anyone heard of these guys or tried there products?


    http://pacifictoolcompany.com//index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3476
  • keyturbocars
    keyturbocars Solar Expert Posts: 375 ✭✭
    Re: UGE 4KW Vertical Axis Wind Turbine

    Don't know anything about that specific wind turbine. If it's $25k to buy, then expect to at least double that price for final installation to pay someone to set it all up. A big turbine like this will not be so easy to set up for the average do-it-yourselfer.

    Not sure what factory Pacific Tools gets their wind turbines from, but I'd be very careful about any wind turbines that are made in China.

    http://www.powershacks.com/redrivenfailures.html

    You might be better off investing the money in a bigger solar array. You might be happier in the long run.

    I like wind power (and I have it), but you have to be prepared to tinker with it more. In other words, if you are handy with working on mechancial and electrical systems, and if you think it would be enjoyable to tinker on your wind turbine system, then you might want to consider it. If you want to just set something up and not think much about it again, then you might not like wind power. Also, the power output can be very much "feast or famine" as the wind usually does not blow consistently. Depending on your location, sunshine should be much more consistent.

    Just food for thought.

    Edward
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: UGE 4KW Vertical Axis Wind Turbine

    Also check Hugh Piggott wind site http://www.scoraigwind.com/
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: UGE 4KW Vertical Axis Wind Turbine

    Also--spend the time and money on building design, conservation and Energy Star appliances... Much better return on investment vs anything solar or wind related.

    I am not a fan of Wind Power---I think it is too highly variable/seasonal/unreliable and requires a lot of maintenance. Even "reliable" solar PV--You should plan on replacing the major electronics every 10-15 years and repairs more often than that.

    Solar PV system off grid or battery backed power is going to be expensive power... Battery backed system--perhaps in the $0.45 to $0.75 per kWW. Off-Grid--probably in the $1.00 to $2.00+ per kWH range.

    Vs pure Grid Tied which can be in the $0.15-$0.30 per kWH range. (all costs are pure SWAG's and based on costs before rebates).

    Here is an example of sizing a Grid Tied solar system for Caribou Maine using PV Watts:
    "Station Identification"
    "City:","Caribou"
    "State:","Maine"
    "Lat (deg N):", 46.87
    "Long (deg W):", 68.02
    "Elev (m): ", 190
    "PV System Specifications"
    "DC Rating:"," 10.0 kW"
    "DC to AC Derate Factor:"," 0.770"
    "AC Rating:"," 7.7 kW"
    "Array Type: Fixed Tilt"
    "Array Tilt:"," 46.9"
    "Array Azimuth:","180.0"

    "Energy Specifications"
    "Cost of Electricity:","12.2 cents/kWh"

    "Results"
    "Month", "Solar Radiation (kWh/m^2/day)", "AC Energy (kWh)", "Energy Value ($)"
    1, 3.36, 870, 106.14
    2, 4.34, 1005, 122.61
    3, 5.23, 1298, 158.36
    4, 5.75, 1336, 162.99
    5, 4.99, 1122, 136.88
    6, 5.09, 1083, 132.13
    7, 5.15, 1105, 134.81
    8, 4.99, 1093, 133.35
    9, 4.26, 935, 114.07
    10, 3.45, 804, 98.09
    11, 2.38, 547, 66.73
    12, 2.73, 695, 84.79
    "Year", 4.31, 11895, 1451.19

    You can get >1,000 kWH per month for ~7 months of the year with a Grid Tied 10 kW system...

    Same system as pure Off-Grid:
    "Station Identification"
    "City:","Caribou"
    "State:","Maine"
    "Lat (deg N):", 46.87
    "Long (deg W):", 68.02
    "Elev (m): ", 190
    "PV System Specifications"
    "DC Rating:"," 10.0 kW"
    "DC to AC Derate Factor:"," 0.520"
    "AC Rating:"," 5.2 kW"
    "Array Type: Fixed Tilt"
    "Array Tilt:"," 46.9"
    "Array Azimuth:","180.0"

    "Energy Specifications"
    "Cost of Electricity:","12.2 cents/kWh"

    "Results"
    "Month", "Solar Radiation (kWh/m^2/day)", "AC Energy (kWh)", "Energy Value ($)"
    1, 3.36, 576, 70.27
    2, 4.34, 668, 81.50
    3, 5.23, 864, 105.41
    4, 5.75, 889, 108.46
    5, 4.99, 738, 90.04
    6, 5.09, 713, 86.99
    7, 5.15, 726, 88.57
    8, 4.99, 717, 87.47
    9, 4.26, 612, 74.66
    10, 3.45, 526, 64.17
    11, 2.38, 353, 43.07
    12, 2.73, 458, 55.88
    "Year", 4.31, 7840, 956.48

    Around 700 kWH per month (and because of only 3 days of storage, you will probably use much less than the values above) for the same 10kW system--That probably costs ~2x as much because of the batteries and more expensive hybrid/off-grid inverters. Plus you would need the genset and fuel too.

    Gensets are not that expensive--the fuel and maintenance costs tend to swamp the initial installation costs over time.

    With gensets, you really want to load them to >50% of rated power... Both for fuel efficiency and, for diesels, for longer mechanical life (some even recommend >65% of rated power for diesels).

    Take a look at the fuel flow on a 60kW genset running a 6 kW battery charger--It is not going to be pretty (you may use ~5x the amount of fuel per kWH of electricity actually used).

    I have a small home in a city, natural gas for heating/cooking, and I can run my home very nicely on a 1,600 watt genset (may have to unplug the spare refrigerator and avoid microwave/toaster oven use).

    Make spread sheet models of your power needs and how you would supply the energy (and if you have extraordinary costs like running a 1 mile power line from grid to property).

    Then, so you have a point of comparison--Figure out some rough $/kWH pricing:
    • Capital+Repair+fuel costs / xx Year life * KWH per year expected usage = $/kWH

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • MaineOFFGRID
    MaineOFFGRID Registered Users Posts: 12
    Re: UGE 4KW Vertical Axis Wind Turbine

    I definitely plan on installing solar panels, and a lot of them. i like the sanyo hit panels i believe there top model runs 220watts at 21% efficiency. I will order a pallet of these in the future found 34 of them for 32k which is a good deal. If i cover my whole roof in them that should supply plenty of power. My location sucks for sun though im in the farthest point east in the US northern Maine Lubec.. we dont get much sun at all in the winter..

    So who are some reputable HAWT suppliers??

    I found this other company called proven check this out

    http://www.wmjmarine.com/pe6050.html

    they make a 2.5kw 6kw and 12.1kw system 6kw system is 38k
  • MaineOFFGRID
    MaineOFFGRID Registered Users Posts: 12
    Re: UGE 4KW Vertical Axis Wind Turbine

    I have no other option because the nearest electrical pole is 3miles. I have to setup a wind/solar/generator with a battery bank.. its my only option...

    I need some good setup ideas... got the base xantrex xw 6000w i just need to get ...
    a. solar panels b. wind turbine c. battery bank

    pretty sure ima stick with the sanyo hit panels for roof or i might mount them on solar arrays.. not sure yet

    windturbine? still searching

    properly sized battery bank? and types of battery's?
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: UGE 4KW Vertical Axis Wind Turbine

    My local installer has had very good luck (few/no returns) for Sanyo HIT modules (last ~5 years?)... However, they are very expensive and if you do not have space limitations, other panels at 13-18% efficiency will cost much less at $$$/Watt--Just simply take up some more square footage to install.

    In the olden days--when Solar panels cost $10 per watt instead of $1-$3 per watt, people used to plan on roughly 100 KWH per month energy usage maximum (using propane/alternative fuels for heating/cooking).

    When you build out a 1,000+ kWH per month off-grid RE system--that is expensive up-front money ($100,000-$200,000?). Plus, you will need to replace batteries every ~5-15 years (more expensive battery, usually a longer life), and most of your electronics (chargers, inverters, etc.) every 10-15 years...

    Have you looked at the costs out into the future ($1,000 - $2,000+ equivalent) per month power bills (and batteries, electronics, fuel costs are only going up from here) to maintain that level of off-grid life style?

    Again, power usage is an intensely personal decision--But most of us here are cheapskates :roll: and look at solar/grid power/whatever as a dollar based return on investment.

    Also, Solar PV can be a good off-grid investment if the home is occupied 9+ months out of the year--If this is a vacation home now / retirement home later--Many times using alternatives (like propane powered refrigerators) for weekend use -- can make much more sense.
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • MaineOFFGRID
    MaineOFFGRID Registered Users Posts: 12
    Re: UGE 4KW Vertical Axis Wind Turbine

    Hey bill thanks for computing those number for me... I had a question about the battery charge... how many charge controllers can you hook up to a battery bank at once? with that 60kw gen i could hook up say 5 of those controllers and charge 30000w continuous i would think that would charge the bank a hell of a lot quicker thus reducing fuel cost.

    I plan on ordering 40 of those sanyo hit panels and building some solar arrays with the trackers built on.

    might be able to eliminate wind all together with a setup like this
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: UGE 4KW Vertical Axis Wind Turbine

    If much of your peak power use is in the summer--Those trackers can be really nice for you guys at far north latitudes. :D

    Play with the PV Watts program--it is pretty simple to use (there are other calculators you can play with once you get the basics down)... And remember those are ~20 year average numbers for a particular location. You may have +/- 10-20% month to month variations. And local conditions (i.e., marine layers, shading, hills, etc.) can affect the numbers too.

    Normally, a C/8 ( battery 20 Hour capacity rating divided by 8 ) is about the maximum for a typical flooded cell battery bank... More than that is lots of expensive hardware that does not get used efficiently and you run the risk of overheating the battery bank. AGMs can take more--but then you need really heavy bank wiring to support C*4 charge rates (yes, full charge in 15 minutes with one brand).

    So, for example, a XW 6048 Hybrid Inverter/Charger should have (at a minimum) a 600 AH battery bank (note, these are just rules of thumb--always check the battery/inverter manuals for exact numbers--and realize that there are other equipment current/power limitations too--just some back of the envelope calculations):
    • 600 AH * 59 volt charging * 1/0.85 eff charging * 1/8 rate of charge = 5,205 Watts = 5.2 kW
    So, that would give you a 7.5-10kW genset as a nice starting point. And if you got down to 50% state of charge, ~4-6 hours of generator run time).

    A good plan (minimum fuel and run time) is to start the genset early in the morning, get the battery bank up to ~80-90% stage of charge (when the charging current starts to drops off) and let the solar array recharge the rest of the day. The last 1-2 hours is at lower current--so it can be a waste of generator fuel (genset at 25% or less of rated power used to charge the battery bank).

    If you have other things to run at the same time (well pump to tank/cistern, washer/drier/process equipment/etc.)--you can run them from the genset almost for free (to keep loads >50%--most gensets use about the same rate of fuel at 50% loading vs 5% loading).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: UGE 4KW Vertical Axis Wind Turbine

    Again--just as a warning--I am, personally, not a fan of small wind. So take my "anti-wind" comments with that in mind.

    Do your due diligence and make the Vendor/Installer prove to you that they have a reliable and cost effective system.

    And personally, I would plan on major "mechanical" maintenance every 1-5 years (money out of pocket).

    Wind does make sense for some people--and there are folks here that use wind--so they can probably give you some more/better information than I.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: UGE 4KW Vertical Axis Wind Turbine

    Since it sounds as though you are planning what would be considered a very large off-grid system I'm going to butt in and suggest you think about setting up multiple smaller systems instead. Id est, three independent 4 kW systems instead of one 12 kW (for example). The reason being that things do go wrong, and if you're out in the middle of nowhere there's no substitute for redundant back-up power. Heck I've got three inverters on hand and four generators!

    You just have to think ahead about what loads are critical and would need to be switched from one set-up to another. No reason you can't put in transfer switches so that "A Loads" can be switched from "Inverter A" to "Inverter B" and vice versa.

    If a storm takes out some panels or some batteries short out or an inverter fries ... a little re-wiring and you're back in business before the ice cream melts. :D
  • keyturbocars
    keyturbocars Solar Expert Posts: 375 ✭✭
    Re: UGE 4KW Vertical Axis Wind Turbine

    I've read good things about Proven. Also, Bergey seems to have a good reputation from what I've seen.


    So who are some reputable HAWT suppliers??

    I found this other company called proven check this out

    http://www.wmjmarine.com/pe6050.html

    they make a 2.5kw 6kw and 12.1kw system 6kw system is 38k
  • Frank
    Frank Solar Expert Posts: 54 ✭✭✭
    Re: UGE 4KW Vertical Axis Wind Turbine

    I don't think anyone has answered battery sizing yet? To choose a battery bank you need to estimate usage and choose how long you want to be "independent." Ex. you might choose 3 days backup. At 10 kwh/day that's 30 kwh backup. There's lots of battery choices out there, depending on how much you want to spend and how much battery watering you want to do.

    Flooded lead-acids are cheapest but might take periodic (quarterly or even monthly) watering. Choosing a nominal pack size of 50 kwh at 48 VDC you need approximately 1000 Ah of batteries. These http://www.solar-electric.com/trl111ah2dec.html might work for you.

    Obviously you want to minimize consumption and it's generally more cost-effective to implement a smaller pack (i.e. shorter period of independence) and a generator. Large packs also imply "hidden" constraints as well; for example you typically want to be able to charge at a 10% rate. For 1000 Ah batteries that's 100 amps which is quite high!

    Personally if you can't be grid-tied I like the idea of a small HAWT, smaller battery bank and generator. You do want to have a wind generator away from the house as it will vibrate regardless of what the manufacturers say. With your wind speed it's worthwhile spending some time trying to balance solar/wind. How will you heat domestic hot water? Maybe you could implement a dump load (DC water heating element) as overcharging batteries is a big no-no.

    Good luck with your project!
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: UGE 4KW Vertical Axis Wind Turbine

    And to add to Frank's battery bank sizing comment--Generally it is a good idea to only cycle a bank to 50% state of charge... Below that point, the cycle life is not very good, and it gives you a "buffer" for storage capacity--Basically, as the batteries age, they lose capacity--so that allows you to use that extra capacity for extra battery life before needing to be changed out.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • SolarLurker
    SolarLurker Solar Expert Posts: 122 ✭✭
    Re: UGE 4KW Vertical Axis Wind Turbine
    I have no other option because the nearest electrical pole is 3miles. I have to setup a wind/solar/generator with a battery bank.. its my only

    properly sized battery bank? and types of battery's?

    How do you heat your house? Maybe consider a free watt plus if you have propane.

    In you budget are you including incentives. I believe you can get the federal tax credit even for off grid. This may give you 30% more to add to your budget.
  • russ
    russ Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    Re: UGE 4KW Vertical Axis Wind Turbine

    Proven are one of the better names in wind turbines.
  • ggunn
    ggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    Re: UGE 4KW Vertical Axis Wind Turbine
    we framed the house with the intention of mounting it on the roof so the structure will hold.. its rated at 31db at 10m/s so i doubt we will here much even on the ground outside..

    That noise measurement is dB through the air. What you will hear inside the house from vibration transmitted mechanically into the frame of your house is another thing entirely.
  • C Keith
    C Keith Registered Users Posts: 7
    Re: UGE 4KW Vertical Axis Wind Turbine

    Currently working on this exact turbine. 2 different sites . 2 different customers each with one 4.4 kw.
    Customer #1 had a tragic failure for as yet unknown reason.
    Customer #2 we are doing startup tomorrow so we will see how it goes.

    The turbine is a PMA - output of 400-600VAC 3 phase (depending if your on grid or off grid) and they have no other associated control's for their turbine. (that I know of) They largely rely on 3rd party rectifiers / controllers .

    My experience with wind power has soured me . At this point I am largely uncertain of windpower's future. The industry has major issues with speed control/brakeing. I have in the past year worked on 1 10 kw HAWT, 1 20kw HAWT and 2 4.4KW vawt's. 2 have had tragic failures. none are running.
    For the most part my experience can be sumed up as this " Some salesman earned his commission - and you don't have any KW's saving because that piece of junk can't run!" A bit like buying the most fuel efficient car in the world, but as soon as you hit the gas it goes like crazy and never stops! Very efficiently piled in to the ditch!!!

    So here I am on a solar site trying to re-kindle the green energy flame.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: UGE 4KW Vertical Axis Wind Turbine

    C Keith,

    Are these on grid or off grid installations, or mixed?

    Why wind vs solar pv? General weather issues, far north, or other site issue such as local shading by trees or mountains?

    Sounds like, in general, lack of wind is not the issue.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • C Keith
    C Keith Registered Users Posts: 7
    Re: UGE 4KW Vertical Axis Wind Turbine

    Bill

    our location has average to good wind conditions. We also have average sun exposures - for a location in Canada.

    the wind turbines are all grid connected. mostly as "investments" (i use that term very loosely in this context) for the purpose of reduceing power bills. One location is perfect for wind - hill top just ideal location of VAWT. The Vawt we started today is the silliest location ever - and funny enough we had no wind to do a startup.

    the 2 HAWT's have okay locations - but finding heavy enough towers was an issue for the installer.

    Why not PV . . . . i can't think of any good reaseon. mostly comes down to cost. I know the 4.4 KW VAWT are around the $35 k installed
    The 2 Hawt's I don't know purchase prices but i suspect the 10KW is around $50-$60k and the 20KW around $80 k installed ready to run . Or in these cases ready to run to pieces. I don't know a single thing about solar at this point. I don't know what a comparible KW of solar is worth here. to my knowledge there isn't a solar installation anywhere around. 3 of the 4 sites I have been working on are good candidates for solar with good South exposure . one customer is talking about tying a solar panel to his grid tied inverter . Aurora 6KW inverter with the 4.4KW UGE . The aurora has dual DC input's

    With ground mounted solar I have concern's about how the wind here will affect them. Our wind is down right violent. In my yard last summer in a rare occurence the wind blew over a full garbage dumpser :confused: . How do good quality solar panel's stand up to wind gusts - and hail - what about hail for any solar panel ?
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: UGE 4KW Vertical Axis Wind Turbine
    C Keith wrote: »
    With ground mounted solar I have concern's about how the wind here will affect them. Our wind is down right violent. In my yard last summer in a rare occurence the wind blew over a full garbage dumpser :confused: . How do good quality solar panel's stand up to wind gusts - and hail - what about hail for any solar panel ?
    I guess in Florida, they have to withstand 125 MPH winds (Hurricane force) for building code... And I have not heard that they have a problem with panels flying through the air.

    My solar panels
    (PDF) have a 1" hail rating and 50 lbs per square foot wind loading loading and 113 PSF for snow loading.

    Not to say that solar panels will withstand flying lawn chairs and 2"+ hail unharmed:

    What the hail is going on!
    Golf Balls v Solar Panels

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: UGE 4KW Vertical Axis Wind Turbine

    I panels withstood some 1 1/4 inch hail just a couple months ago.