Help with solar panel system

clamp
clamp Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭
in Solar Beginners Corner #1
I have solar panels that are giving me 180watts, 54v if I connect them in series, how many batteries I can charge with this? also I charge a car battery and connected an 600watts inverter on it but with some batteries my tv runs around 6hrs and with some just 30 min, how can I fix this? what kind of battery would be the right battery to charge with solar panels, what I need to run my house off grid? thanks:roll:
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: Help with solar panel system

    i think everybody here will need more specific info from you.
    what are the specs of the pvs. vmp, imp, etc.
    do you have a charge controller for either of those systems and what one do you have if so?
    what is the ah rating and voltage of the batteries you have and how they are configured?
    what are the loads you require in watt hours per day?
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  • clamp
    clamp Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭
    #3
    Re: Help with solar panel system

    wow you got me there, all I know its that I have 18v per panel and I have 3 panels, so I think that if I connect them in series I will have 54v,,you know more than me about this stuff, I just have an Idea and think that it can be done but don't know how to go about it, probably you can help me by telling me what I can do with those 3 panels, let me get you what I have for panels,Solar cell specifications
    Power output: 1.6 watts
    Amperage: 2900-3200 mA
    Voltage: .50-.55 v

    and I have 108pcs, I used 36pcs for each panel, I'm planing to go bigger if I have to, but the money its tight, I need to run my home, around 2,500watts, I didn't know I needed a control charger, can you please explain what it is? please give me the cheapest Idea you can come out with, I will appreciate it alot:D
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #4
    Re: Help with solar panel system

    home made pvs will not fly with grid tie due to nec rules on certification. you really aren't saving yourself money either with diy panels.
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  • dwh
    dwh Solar Expert Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: Help with solar panel system

    Clamp,

    If your house uses 2500w per day then you need:

    1500w of solar
    charge controller
    10 x 12v/100 amp hour batteries
    inverter

    plus fuses, breakers and lots of very fat wire.

    With 180w of solar, after wire and resistance you can make a good guess of 100w per hour into the battery. If you have 4 hours of good sun, then 400w per day. 400w / 12v battery = 33 amp hour battery.

    But you cannot charge a 12v battery with 57v - it's way too much. You need to supply 17v to charge a 12v battery, and you need a controller to charge the battery correctly and not over charge.

    The controller goes between the solar and the battery to make sure the battery gets enough, but not too much. There are different kinds of controller. Cheap ones are usually no good.
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  • Ralph Day
    Ralph Day Solar Expert Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭✭
    #6
    Re: Help with solar panel system

    Hey DWH,
    How'd you get that picture of me from my family archive? Or is there one of each of us like that here?


    Ralph

    Ps post valid until DWH changes his avatar
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #7
    Re: Help with solar panel system
    Ralph Day wrote: »
    Hey DWH,
    How'd you get that picture of me from my family archive? Or is there one of each of us like that here?


    Ralph

    funny as i was thinking the same thing about the picture. i didn't even know somebody snapped a picture of me doing that when i was a kid!:-):cool:
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #8
    Re: Help with solar panel system
    niel wrote: »
    Ralph Day wrote: »
    Hey DWH,
    How'd you get that picture of me from my family archive? Or is there one of each of us like that here?


    Ralph

    funny as i was thinking the same thing about the picture. i didn't even know somebody snapped a picture of me doing that when i was a kid!:-):cool:

    It's universal: those of us who survived that early experimentation with electricity went on to try, try again. Repeated attempts at self-electrocution lead to a more resilient breed of electrician! :p
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #9
    Re: Help with solar panel system
    If your house uses 2500w per day then you need:

    That would be 2500 watt/hours per day. Watts mean nothing without a time element except to denote a particular load. A 60 watt bulb consumes 60 watts of power at an instant in time. (Pf issues aside!) But the same 60 watt bulb, burning for 1 hour will consume 60 watt/hours (wh) of power.

    It's like saying your car burns 10 gallons. Doesn't mean much until you say in how many miles (or in how much time).
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #10
    Re: Help with solar panel system
    icarus wrote: »
    60 watt bulb, burning for 1 hour will consume 100 watt/hours (wh) of power.

    I thought it was 60wh . no wonder my batteries are going downhill.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #11
    Re: Help with solar panel system

    mike,
    talk about a phantom load.:roll::p

    that's just tony's math getting in the way of properly advising again.:cry::p
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,642 admin
    #12
    Re: Help with solar panel system
    That would be 2500 watt/hours per day. Watts mean nothing without a time element except to denote a particular load. ... watt/hours (wh) of power.

    Actually, it is Watt*Hours (Watts times Hours), not Watts divided by Hours for energy...

    Watts is a rate (like miles per gallon or miles per hour). Watt*Hours is an amount of energy (like miles driven). Watt:
    The watt (pronounced /ˈwɒt/; symbol: W) is a derived unit of power in the International System of Units (SI), named after the Scottish engineer James Watt (1736–1819). The unit measures the rate of energy conversion. It is defined as one joule per second.

    We use Watt*Hours as a "useful sized" unit for household energy. A watt second is a pretty small number.

    The real energy SI unit is Watt*Seconds... 1.0 Watt*Hour = 3,600 Watt*Seconds

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • dwh
    dwh Solar Expert Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭
    #13
    Re: Help with solar panel system
    icarus wrote: »
    That would be 2500 watt/hours per day. Watts mean nothing without a time element except to denote a particular load. A 60 watt bulb consumes 60 watts of power at an instant in time. (Pf issues aside!) But the same 60 watt bulb, burning for 1 hour will consume 100 watt/hours (wh) of power.

    It's like saying your car burns 10 gallons. Doesn't mean much until you say in how many miles (or in how much time).

    Yes. I know.

    However, intelligence is sometimes defined as "being able to communicate with others on THEIR level".

    So one step at a time. First let's get this newbie used to idea that his 3 60w DIY modules aren't going to get him off the grid and that 57v is not really good for charging a car battery.

    THEN we can deal with the details.


    EDIT: Oh, and the new avatar. I was cruising another forum and saw it and busted up since yes, I did in fact do this when I was a kid (I used a fork though, not a knife). So I stole it. I had to, no choice - it was just too perfect.
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #14
    Re: Help with solar panel system

    Whoops! I changed it. In this case it wasn't a math error, but a writing error. As I wrote it I was going to change it to a 100 watt bulb to make the math more intuitive, but forgot to go back and change the suggested size of the bulb.

    That said, anytime there is a number associated with any post of mine, please do your own math!

    Sorry for any confusion!

    Tony
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,642 admin
    #15
    Re: Help with solar panel system

    Actually Watt*Hours--not Watts/Hours.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #16
    Re: Help with solar panel system
    BB. wrote: »
    Actually Watt*Hours--not Watts/Hours.

    -Bill

    Everyone knows I refrain from correcting other people's English ... :p

    But if we want to be picky about the semantics, it's "Watt hours". That is a unit in and of itself, as:

    1 Watt for 1 hour = 1 Watt hour. 1 Watt for 2 hours = 2 Watt hours. 2 Watts for 1 hour = 2 Watt hours.

    (Okay, I'll stop! :p)
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,642 admin
    #17
    Re: Help with solar panel system

    Hmmm... Go to Wiki, edit entry to say what I want;), then:
    The kilowatt hour, or kilowatt-hour, (symbol kW·h, kW h) is a unit of energy equal to 1000 watt hours or 3.6 megajoules.[1][2]
    Energy in watt hours is the multiplication of power in watts and time in hours.
    The kilowatt hour is most commonly known as a billing unit for energy delivered to consumers by electric utilities.
    They use a dot "·" and I used a "star" "*" because it is what I have on my keyboard.

    From a math point of view--two variables are assumed to multiply unless there is another function shown.
    ^ "Half-high dots or spaces are used to express a derived unit formed from two or more other units by multiplication." Barry N. Taylor. (2001 ed.) The International System of Units.
    The forward slash "/" typically means divide -- And we don't want that here.

    I like to avoid spaces between units in posts as spaces can be confused with following text/units/math...

    Watts per Hour or Watt/Hour is a very common mistake (you can probably find some in my early posts and perhaps even a couple recent ones too) here as everyone is used to a "rate" (unit per time as in Miles per Hour or Gallons per Minute)... A Watt is already defined as Energy/Time (Joules per Second = J/s).

    And, now can we pick on Wiki for using the minus or dash "-" symbol in kilowatt-hour? :p;)

    With my English and math skills--I am nowhere close to worthy to pick on anyone else's. :blush::cry:

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    #18
    Re: Help with solar panel system

    This thread has been quite eye opening for me. Aside from my math errors (chronic) it never dawned on me when I abbreviate I quite often use the Watt/hour using the slash never realizing that it means divide by, 50/2=25 for example. It was not until
    Bill was noting how he uses the * not just for the multiplication. I will try to be more clear in the future. (That doesn't mean my math will be any better!)

    Tony
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  • clamp
    clamp Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭
    #19
    Re: Help with solar panel system

    thanks guys, and yes to the person that said that I was a newbie and ya'll needed to talk to me in my level:D I'm new on this solar panel thing, but I know it can be done, Ok it won't get me off grid but this its what I can start with, I charge my car battery and took it home and plug it into a 600 watt inverter and it gave me 8 hrs of use for my 27inch tv, so here its the question,

    I have 3 solar panels 60watt each, 18volts each one

    4 deep cycle batteries, 2 of them are energizer 180ah and the other 2 don't say anything but all 4 came out of an RV

    2 inverters, one 600watt and a 3000watt

    what can I do with this and what type of charger controller I need?

    this its what I can start at this time, hardly any money
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #20
    Re: Help with solar panel system

    You have the mininum PV that can be used with the 4 batteries. You may want to connect a panel to each battery, and charge them individually for 2 days each. Disconnect the panels from the battery at night.

    After 2 days of charging, measure the battery voltages, and make sure all batteries are good. You may have bad ones if they have been idle for too long.

    Lets see what happens after you test the batteries.

    Where would you mount the PV's. Charge controller? Batteries?
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • clamp
    clamp Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭
    #21
    Re: Help with solar panel system

    the panels on the roof the batteries on the garage the controller anywhere you tell me, I checked the batteries, the 4 of them are good I charged them with a battery charger at 4amps for 10hrs and they read 14volts,,,ok so 3 batteries for 3 solar panels what kind of charger controller do I need? and can I use the 3000power inverter with this small job? how long do you think it will last me if I use around 1500watt?
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #22
    Re: Help with solar panel system

    Because the way inefficencies add up, you can only consume 50% of your solar harvest.
    So, say you have 4 hours of good sunlight (good for PV), you can collect 720Wh of power. Half of that is 360Wh.
    So you can run a 2,000 microwave for 5.5 minutes, or
    3, 50W lightbulbs for 2.4 hours
    1, 50w bulb for 7.2 hrs
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • clamp
    clamp Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭
    #23
    Re: Help with solar panel system

    so.... if I charge the batteries with each PV and I connect the batteries in parallel to the inverter that will give me 3 times the Ah of each battery, and will keep the voltage at 12 right?
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