compare

ws9876ws9876 Solar Expert Posts: 404 ✭✭✭
how about a comparison between the TLG 500 with controller $1200 m/l 24v

or the Windmax 500 with controller and dump $ 650 m/l 24v
also called HY-400 with 5 blades

what do you think????

Comments

  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,261 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: compare

    With one, you throw away $550 less then the other.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • MisterBMisterB Solar Expert Posts: 156 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: compare

    A couple of weeks ago, I installed a Windmax H5 12 volt wind generator on a 45 foot free standing tower that previously held an ancient Windseeker 250. It is similar to the H400 but is a couple of years older and has 3 blades instead of 5. I bought it almost 2 years ago and finally installed it this month. It was the only 12 volt wind genererator in that wattage range available that looked like it might actually work. It has some good design in it's favor--a solid 3 phase alternator with all control electronics safely on the ground in the controller box unlike most of Southwest Windpower's products. When I took it out of the box I felt good about the generator--It was solid and heavy enough to actually generate something like 500 watts and the blades were big and solid with some serious attention paid to aerodynamics. I felt less sure about the controller and the connectors it had and totally ditched the connector that was suppsed to connect to the generator at the tower top and did my own splicing instead. The controller was a bitch to wire and the connectors weren't really designed for the gauge of wire that should be used. Once up I was surprised at how well the controller actually worked. It looks like a direct knock off of the the controllers that come with the Whisper wind generators and so far is performing very well. I find this funny because about 10 years ago, I was contemplating buying the 500 watt Whisper wind generator that was produced by World Power Technologies at the time but they were bought out by Southwest Windpower before I actually bought it--I think the price was around $900. Southwest Windpower dropped the 500 watt Whisper generator and instead started pushing their vastly inferior Air X. Now all these years later, I am using a chinese knock off of the wind generator I wanted so long ago.

    Right now in a moderate gusty wind of maybe 15 mph average it is peaking at about 100 watts and dipping to about 50 watts. This is what the the owners manual says I should get under these conditions. I don't have accurate data on local wind speeds right now so I am relying on what is reported at our local airport 12 miles away. I have yet to see anything like 500 watts but there hasn't been any serious wind since I've installed it.

    My conclusion so far is that it is definitely worth what I paid for it. I'll see how I feel about that after it goes through winter and a few really high winds.

    I should also point out that it is part of a hybrid wind/solar system with a 400 watt solar array and even with a fairly good tower, I could never depend on wind energy alone in this location. The wind generator complements the solar and under certain conditions--such as a 3 day winter storm--really makes a difference. I rarely have to use my backup gasoline generator--once in a very blue moon.

    And as I get ready to post this, the wind speed is around 20mph at the airport which means a few mph less here and it is going between 70 and 120 watts. It is a very gusty wind which means more turbulance and less real power. A steady wind of 25 mph is what will really test it's wattage rating which means a serious weather front coming in which is not likely to happen until around Thanksgiving.
  • MisterBMisterB Solar Expert Posts: 156 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: compare

    A bit of an update.

    I've just been looking at the TLG website and the "real world" current to battery output at for a 12 volt system looks roughly comparable at low to moderate wind speeds to the Windmax and I have yet to see a high enough wind to know what the windmax will really do at high wind speeds. I've definitely been low balling my wattage because I'm just multiplying measured current by 12 volts and not measuring battery voltage like the TLG site. So if you want to know the actual charge current to batteries in my previous post, just divide the watts by 12.

    The Windmax controller, in spite of my initial misgivings, is working quite well and the I have seen it put on the electromagnetic braking and slow the windgen to almost nothing when the batteries are charged and it does this when the battery voltage hits 14.1 volts just like the manual says it will. TLG only gives you a 3 phase bridge rectifier and you have to spend more for the controller and figure out your own dump load. The TLG controller looks a lot more primitive but it just might be a lot more rugged but that is only speculation on my part. In any case, you get a complete system minus the tower with the Windmax H400 and you will still have to invest in a controller and dump load with the TLG.


    And after taking a look at the TLG site I went to the Windmax site and both are, of course, extremely boastfull of their product. As Chinese wind generators go, the Windmax people seem to be serious about their product it doesn't seem to come from a factory that is producing cheap toys on the next assembly line. Patents and CE and ISO certification aren't cheap and reflect a serious interest in the product. On the other hand, anyone actually producing a product for sale in 21st century America is to be commended and I certainly don't see any reason not to buy a TLG. If the Windmax doesn't work out in the long run, I'll certainly look at the TLG even if it costs more.

    And as I get ready to post this, I am getting around 10 amps from my Windmax at 16mph reported at the airport a few minutes ago but I am going to have to get an anemometer on my tower to give you any real accurate data.
  • keyturbocarskeyturbocars Solar Expert Posts: 375 ✭✭
    Re: compare

    Thanks for the update. I'll agree that the HY series of wind turbines sold as Windmax appear to be very good quality. I've gotten burned by cheap Chinese junk in the past, but my HY-2000 wind turbine looked to be very well made. I'm talking about fit and finish and quality of workmanship. I was very impressed, and that's saying a lot because I tend to be very pessimistic about Chinese products because of past experiences. Obviously, someone at the HY Energy factory knows what they are doing and they have decent quality control measures in place. By the way, here's a link to their factory site...

    http://www.hyenergy.com.cn/Enindex.asp
  • dwhdwh Solar Expert Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭
    Re: compare

    That hyenergy link doesn't work.
  • keyturbocarskeyturbocars Solar Expert Posts: 375 ✭✭
    Re: compare

    dwh, Not sure why the link didn't work. I tried it now and it worked. Might be that the Chinese server was down when you tried. The website is pretty crude.

    The exclusive distributor for the HY Energy wind turbines in the US is this company (they call them Windmax):

    http://www.magnet4less.com/index.php?cPath=8_116&osCsid=21ac389794e7e67f40fc9edb6b45a8f3

    Beware that the Windmax V-20 2kw wind turbine on that page is NOT from the HY Energy factory. That 2kW wind turbine is JUNK in my opinion. I had a 2kW wind turbine of the same Chinese design and it failed after 7 months (and a lot of hassles prior to that). That's why I say that I am very pessimistic about poorly made Chinese products, and I was pleasantly surprised at the quality of my HY-2000 wind turbine.

    I will say this about Magnets4Less... they say they do not warranty the wind turbines if installed by the average person. In my opinion, this is a crock and a lame excuse to avoid warranty issues. Fortunately, I've only heard of good feedback from people with the HY-series of wind turbines. The factory might be doing a good job manufacturing these, but Magnets4Less is pretty lame in my opinion by not standing behind a warranty. That fact alone might make it better to buy a TLG-500. Unfortunately, there is no one else in the US that can sell these HY Energy wind turbines.
  • MisterBMisterB Solar Expert Posts: 156 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: compare
    The exclusive distributor for the HY Energy wind turbines in the US is this company (they call them Windmax):

    http://www.magnet4less.com/index.php?cPath=8_116&osCsid=21ac389794e7e67f40fc9edb6b45a8f3



    I will say this about Magnets4Less... they say they do not warranty the wind turbines if installed by the average person. In my opinion, this is a crock and a lame excuse to avoid warranty issues. Fortunately, I've only heard of good feedback from people with the HY-series of wind turbines. The factory might be doing a good job manufacturing these, but Magnets4Less is pretty lame in my opinion by not standing behind a warranty. That fact alone might make it better to buy a TLG-500. Unfortunately, there is no one else in the US that can sell these HY Energy wind turbines.

    I bought mine in early 2009 and it is the same turbine as the high speed HY400 but it was called an H5. In the specs for the one I bought, the survival wind speed is listed as 134mph. Now Magnets4Less lists a 50mph survival speed and has lowered wattage expectations on the 3 blade model from 485/500max to 400/450max. I think I got a one year warranty with mine but since I took over a year to install it, it wouldn't apply anyway. They also give much more specific instructions on how to install it than I got and emphasize 100 amp fuses on the 3 phase lines and adding a breaking switch. I would guess all of this comes out of having a few returned due to high wind failures with the generator going into free run either by blowing fuses on the 3 phase lines or generating too much power for the controller and causing controller failures. So far, I'm a bit disapointed in the higher wind performance but there haven't been any real high winds to test it and I don't yet have an anemometer to accurately measure wind speeds. My turbine has yet to break the 20 amp barrier and there have been some pretty gusty days where I would have expected that. It's low speed performance has been better than expected and it does really well at low wind speeds and even a very modest wind produces 1-3 amps.

    The survival speed concerns me because that is one of the things I looked at when I bought it and it looks like it's real world survival speed is much less than initally advertised. I did put a breaking switch on the tower which is the same design as the one on the DLG website but I'm thinking about replacing it with a 100 amp 3 phase motor switch normally kept open and closed to short the 3 phase wires and break the wind generator. This should be able to break it at higher wind speeds than either the switch in the controller or the one I made. This is a low to moderate wind area most of the time but we do get some real extreme winds at times.
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,261 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: compare

    You want the brake switch to default to brakeing.

    If you rely on active power to engage it, if the system frys, the brakes are non-functional.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • MisterBMisterB Solar Expert Posts: 156 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: compare

    It is a manual brake switch. I leave the wind generator braked when I'm not home for any length of time. What I have now on the tower is a 3 phase disconnect/fuse box that can be fused up to 60 amps with a 2PST blade switch bolted to the inside of the box that shorts all three 3 phase wires so I can brake and electrically isolate the turbine at the tower base. The controller shorts 2 of the 3 phase lines when the switch on the controller is in the off position but it isn't a very big switch. So I have a convenient brake on the controller and a more serious brake on the tower. Looking at what TLG has to say about it, it looks like breaking it in high wind conditions is not going to be a good idea but you might get away with it with a switch big enough to handle the current surge. I have to see what the turbine actually does in something like a 40 to 50mph wind to really know what it can put out and to see if anything in the controller starts to heat up or if the AC current gets high enough to pop a 60 amp fuse. From what I've seen so far from this Windmax, I doubt it. I'm just a little concerned about the survival speed being reduced to 50mph. We have freaky winds here sometimes and 50mph does happen.My feeling is that it isn't likely the turbine itself but that the controller is more likely to fail and let it free run.
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