Solar Well Pumping

CenTexCenTex Registered Users Posts: 5
Need some help in configuring a solar hookup for my well...

I have a good 200 ft well with a 1 hp 230vac submersible pump. I would like to convert the power from line ac to solar ac through an inverter, with automatic switching, using grid power as the backup.

Don't want to go over to a dc well pump...

My thoughts are an appropriate solar panel(s) connected to a battery bank through a solar charge controller. The batteries supply an inverter which supplies the 230v pump. I'm estimating that the peak activation of the pump would be less than 2 hours of semi-constant operation of the pump within any given 24 hour period.

Hoping some of you can supply me with the proper component list that I will need. I don't want to grossly overkill a system, but do want more than ample power. Using a doom's day mentality, I figure the most important resource I can't live without is my well...

I made a simple diagram of how I thought the system would be configured, but since I'm less than qualified as a solar designer, I may have this out in left field...

Thanks in advance for any help supplied.

Br,

Patrick

well_diag.gif

Comments

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 31,784 admin
    Re: Solar Well Pumping

    Can you do Net Metered / Grid Tied solar in your area (and would you want to do that)?

    There are various types of transfer switches out there == Perhaps one of these could be wired to do what you want (data sheet PDF).

    In general, I see at least four different ways of doing something like this:

    First, a pure Grid Tied inverter with generator backup. You have to have a utility that supports some version of Net Metering + Grid Tied solar inverter. Cheapest and most efficient solution--little maintenance cost other than a new GT inverter every 10-15 years and genset servicing. You can come pretty close to the cost of utility power with this setup--and for us on the coasts with high power costs (upwards of $0.30-$0.60 per kWH)--it can be a real savings in monthly power bills. Will qualify for 30% fed tax credit and many utility/state rebates.

    2nd, a pure off-grid solution--which you have proposed. Probably the most expensive on a $$$/kWH basis. You have all of the equipment (solar, charge controller, battery bank, inverter)... Plus the losses of extra steps of power conversion and battery storage. And, as you cycle the batteries, they do "wear out" and have to be replaced every 4-8+ years... Very easily, off-grid power can cost you 4-10x the cost of utility power on a $$$/kWH basis ($1-$2+ per kWH as a rough estimate). Most likely will not qualify for any tax credits/utility rebates.

    3rd, a Hybrid Solution... Basically an Inverter that can do both Grid Tied and Off-Grid power. You have all of the components of #2--but because you are using net metered power--the battery bank can be smaller (less $$$ on batteries), the batteries just "float" (fewer cycles, longer battery life, less $$$ on batteries). And since it is grid tied, more of the power goes from the solar panels to the utility power (and pump power) directly without going through the batteries--so it is more efficient too. The Xanterx XW Hybrid system (aka Schneider-Electric now) is something to look at. Your power costs for this type of system is probably on the order of $0.45 per kWH before rebates/tax credits (very rough numbers). This system should qualify for 30% federal tax credit. Also supports a generator for backup/extra power. The Xantrex XW supports 120/240 VAC split phase power without any extra components and is a nice Off-Grid inverter system in its own right.

    4th is converting to a DC well pump... Great if pumping to a cistern.. And you would setup a small DC (or AC) battery powered pump to pressurize your system.

    Me--I went with #1 (GT and backup genset). Otherwise #3 would better meet your requirements (but not cheap).

    Your thoughts?

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,298 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Solar Well Pumping

    Consider something less than 1hp for your pump, if you have storage capacity for the water. I use a 1/2 hp pump, @ 165' 9gpm to fill a tank with. The killer is the giant inverter you need to start a 1hp pump with. My 6,000W 240V inverter CAN start my 1/2hp pump, and as it's running, registers a 1,000w continuous load from the pump. Mine is set to run only from noon to 2pm, so I'm running off the panels, not the batteries.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • CenTexCenTex Registered Users Posts: 5
    Re: Solar Well Pumping

    BB & Mike, thanks for the guidance...

    OK, here are my parameters:

    The well and 10 gpm, 230v 1hp are already online. Need the 1hp to pull the water up 180 ft. and get it to my boost pump that supplies the house.

    200 ft well is fed by 4 strata of water, starting at 80 ft. So pump size, capacity, and type are locked in.

    I could accomplish the task with a backup genset, but my goal is to be able to pump water from the existing system totally off grid and not dependant on fuel to feed a genset. Not real interested in selling power back to the co-op...

    I found one 10,000 Watt Continous Power Inverter, Peak Surge Power: 20,000W. 12V DC to 110 AC in 60Hz priced in the $1,000 range. (Think I can double 2 of the outlets to give the 220v need for the pump. Yes - No?) A 12 Volt 30A Solar Charge Controller in the $150 range. I had also looked at the Iota-30R transfer switch at $57+

    Haven't got a good idea of what size solar panel(s) or battery bank I'd need to operate the well pump for up to 2 hours per day. Those two items are now the big question. I'm guessing that a bank of four 4D deep cycle batteries would probably do for that item. Tune of $350 each, for around $1,400.

    Up to that point, I'm coming in at a bit over $2,300, including wiring, and I'm not intimidated by that cost. But, what wattage solar array do I need?

    This whole thought process has far less to do with being "Green" and far more to do with being a survivalist...
    BB wrote:

    3rd, a Hybrid Solution... Basically an Inverter that can do both Grid Tied and Off-Grid power. You have all of the components of #2--but because you are using net metered power--the battery bank can be smaller (less $$$ on batteries), the batteries just "float" (fewer cycles, longer battery life, less $$$ on batteries). And since it is grid tied, more of the power goes from the solar panels to the utility power (and pump power) directly without going through the batteries--so it is more efficient too. The Xanterx XW Hybrid system (aka Schneider-Electric now) is something to look at.

    Looking into that option right now, thanks again...
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Solar Well Pumping
    CenTex wrote: »
    I found one 10,000 Watt Continous Power Inverter, Peak Surge Power: 20,000W. 12V DC to 110 AC in 60Hz priced in the $1,000 range. (Think I can double 2 of the outlets to give the 220v need for the pump. Yes - No?) A 12 Volt 30A Solar Charge Controller in the $150 range. I had also looked at the Iota-30R transfer switch at $57+

    Do NOT buy this! 100% CRAP. 10 kW from 12 VDC? That's 834 Amps of current! Surge to 20 kW ON 12 VDC? They are out of their MINDS! :grr And in that price range 100% guarantee it's MSW - no good for motors. Probably AIMS junk.

    And no, you can't take two 120 VAC outlets and get 240 VAC from them unless the inverter actually sources 240 VAC. You can boost 120 VAC to 240 VAC with a transformer, providing the inverter can handle the current.

    Basically, the power you are asking for is significant both in terms of how much inverter is necessary to handle a 1 HP motor and in the size of the battery bank to supply any realistic run time. I know: I have a 1 HP pump on my digester. It only runs 1 minute per day. When it runs it draws a healthy 1 kW, and it has "soft start" so the initial power surge doesn't overwhelm my 3.5 kW inverter.

    You should have a 24 Volt system for this much power use (because it's not just the pump) and probably a similar size inverter to mine (which also runs electric 'frige and 1/3 HP water pump in addition to everything else).

    About your battery size requirements. If you can pump 10 gpm, how many gallons per day do you need? 100 gallons = 10 minutes pumping. When running, your 1 HP well pump will probably use 1000 Watts. That's about 17 Watt hours per minute of operation. Roughly speaking, you'd need about 2 Amp hours of battery capacity for every 1 minute of expected pump operation. Not absolutely so, as there are a few "management" tricks that can help out - like making sure the pump runs only during daylight/"battery Float" times.

    To get a better handle on over-all system design we'd need to know how many gallons per day you need. It's best to pump them "all at once" and fill up sizable pressure tanks if you can. I keep mine down to one 6 minute pump per day unless there's a specific heavy water need (i.e. laundry) in which case it is timed to coincide with fully charged batteries (harvesting sunlight that would otherwise be "wasted").

    Once you have a battery bank sized up for your needs, then you can calculate the necessary amount of panel to keep it charged. It won't be one panel, that's for sure.

    12 V 10 kW inverter! They should be SHOT for making that! :grr
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,298 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Solar Well Pumping

    ditto what Cariboocoot said.

    1) you WILL need a sine wave inverter

    2) it will need to be LARGE

    3) without changing your pump, I don't know if you can do any "soft start" or slow start tricks. ideally, you want a 15 sec start sequence. The "softer" the start, the smaller the inverter and battery bank required.

    4) what kind of power does the booster pump need? if 110, many can be re-wired to 220V, which is MUCH better. (long technical reason)

    5) you will need a storage tank to feed your booster pump. 500 - 1,500 gal would be good, only one well pump start per day. Starts are what kill pump motors, running dry is the other. A float switch goes in the tank to control the pump, and a timer to limit it to bright light times - run it off the PV, not the batteries which will handle start-up surge.

    6) my guess is 1,000W of PV, it will contribute to the running of the pump, and in needed to recharge the batteries.

    I don't know who makes a good 240VAC sine inverter, what the surge is, but I can say a 6KW XW6048 works. Maybe a xw4048 would work too. And their built in charger can charge batteries from a 240V genset which can also run the pump in winter.

    Batteries, maybe, with the solar feed, you can get by with 4, 12v group 27 size batteries. (That's 100AH @ 48V = 4800W possible)

    Lots of choices, all expensive.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • CenTexCenTex Registered Users Posts: 5
    Re: Solar Well Pumping

    Marc,

    Thanks for the input and wake up call... Very informative and exactly the kind of info that I need. As all have probably guess by now, I have absolutely no practical knowledge of inverters or solar power.

    Indeed the inverter I referenced is an AIMS. So I know now to steer clear of that trademark.
    If you can pump 10 gpm, how many gallons per day do you need? 100 gallons = 10 minutes pumping.

    Realistically, and from a "survival only" standpoint, 10 gallons per day would be more than sufficient, but for a regular, non-emergency day, 100 gallons per day would again be more than sufficient.

    Going over to a 24vdc is logical and easily do-able.

    So maybe what I need to think about is keeping the well on standard grid power and creating only a solar backup system that could be manually switched over, only for emergency and/or testing, keeping demand down to ten gallons or less per day when operating in solar mode.

    Using that logic, and based on your system and my restrictions, do you have any recommendation as to how many 175w panels and the number of batteries in the bank to accomplish my perceived need?

    Thanks again,

    Br,

    Patrick
  • arkieoscararkieoscar Solar Expert Posts: 101 ✭✭
    Re: Solar Well Pumping

    I have installed 3 systems that have 1hp. deep well pumps. 2 are xantrex/trace,etc. and latest is Outback. All 3 power the entire house, w/ gen. backup. The most expensive system cost around $40k and the least (newest) will be about $30k. A single XW6048 starts a 1hp. deep well pump with no problems and 2 3524 outbacks don't even grunt when it starts. Save your money and support your local solar contractor.
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Solar Well Pumping

    It comes down to this: how much power are you going to need?

    I know that's vague, but ... well pumps are notoriously "vague" in their power requirements. The reason is that starting and running a motor against no load is easy; doing the same thing while lifting a column of water is quite another. Technically, 1 HP is 746 Watts. In reality my 1/3 HP pump will draw 850 Watts. So much for equations, eh?

    So the first question is; are you still planning on having some type of inverter to run your existing pump, or have you some other way of accessing the water with something like a SunPump, or will you go the easy route and use a generator for emergency power?

    Getting an inverter that will run the pump isn't difficult, just expensive. Mike mention the XW 6048, which would certainly do it. What the minimum inverter that can run the pump is could only be determined by some very sensitive equipment to measure the start surge. The usual "3 to 5 times" guess is just that; a guess. And since it's 240 VAC you can't measure the power use with a Kill-A-Watt. You need a quick-acting clamp-on AC Ammeter to get some real-world figures.

    Off-hand, I'd think any of these would work (minimal):
    XW 4024 http://store.solar-electric.com/xaxwhyin.html
    VFX 3524 http://store.solar-electric.com/vfx3524.html (Needs extra support equipment such as MATE programmer and a transformer for 120 to 240 VAC conversion)
    MS 4024 http://store.solar-electric.com/maenms4040wa1.html

    You should talk to the people at NAWS directly, although they'll want to know your power requirements too. :D These inverters may be large for your other needs, but if you go this route there's not much savings in buying a smaller capacity inverter even if it would run the pump - you might as well have the capacity available.

    In terms of battery capacity, you don't have to run this very long just for the water pumping. It's the same situation I have with the digester; needs a big inverter to handle the Wattage, but only runs a short time! ARGH! (Without that I could have a small 12 V system). Your problem isn't one of getting enough battery capacity, but of having enough inverter to handle that one big load.


    A sort of "minimalist" system using golf cart batteries would give you a maximum 100 Amp hours @ 24 Volts or 2.4 kW hours which is plenty for most situations. To recharge that you'd need at least 400 Watts of panels (not exactly; system variances can make some differences up or down).
  • WilisWilis Solar Expert Posts: 84 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Solar Well Pumping

    My 240vAC pump draws 9 amps while pumping and surge seems to be around 21 amps. I am pumping from 220 ft level. Well is 408 ft deep but water is up well above 200 plus ft. I have grid power and only used the MS-AE Magnum for larger loads like well pump, cloths washer and dehumidifier when sun is shining. Main reason I have this is for emergency use in care of long outages. I have 2 inverters and the small inverter is used to run a refrigerator, freezer, TV, computer and a few lights 24/7 and things seem to be working well. I average 5 to 9.5KW per day depending how low I let my batteries discharge. 80% left is my goal daily. System goes to float most days. It can be done if you are willing to spend the money. I have had the system about 10 months and things seem to be working well. I have taken the SG on the batteries on a monthly schedule because I am afraid of not taking care of them, as I read on this fourm. Only had to equalize twice so far. ;)
  • CenTexCenTex Registered Users Posts: 5
    Re: Solar Well Pumping

    OK, starting to see the fallacy of my ways and that I'm probably approaching this topic in a backassward way...

    I'm now turning more to Mike's suggestion of a Hybrid Solution, wiring a system to operate primarily house and shop needs full time, and run a leg to the well, with a manual switch, for "as/if" needed use.

    The system still has to be large enough to power the well pump, but not dedicated to the well only. Makes more sense to power a bunch of other applications while the well needs are on standby.

    I'll get with my well gurus in town, get some usable data, and then look for a residential system that'll get-r-dun...

    Thanks again all for your time and patience.

    I'll update this thread as I move forward, slow though that may be.

    Br,

    Patrick
  • CenTexCenTex Registered Users Posts: 5
    Re: Solar Well Pumping

    Wilis, your post came through as I was composing the previous one... Glad to hear from someone doing what I'm going for. Sounds like your well is happy with with the Outback inverter. My pump is less than a year old and pumping from a few feet higher on the bore, so my power consumpsion should be similar to your's. What's the configuration of your battery bank and solar panels?

    Thanks,

    Br,

    Patrick
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 31,784 admin
    Re: Solar Well Pumping

    If you ever have to pull the pump and replace the motor--you might look at a 3 phase pump and a VFD (variable frequency drive)... The VFD is a 3 phase inverter that starts at a low frequency and slowly ramps up... This reduces the surge current dramatically (soft start) and you can also run the pump at an optimum speed (lower speed when you don't need 10 gpm flow).

    Here is a thread about a VFD pool pump:

    IntelliFlo pool pumps

    Should be similar for a well pump (I don't know how much VFD and how many well pumps are using it out there--this may be a bit expensive and/or leading edge of the technology curve).

    Otherwise, there is the DC/AC pump from several manufacturers which work very nice with solar power, AC power, battery power, etc... But, again, not cheap.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • stephendvstephendv Solar Expert Posts: 1,571 ✭✭
    Re: Solar Well Pumping

    Aye, what BB said :D
    I have a VFD and 3 phase well pump for a 120m borehole with a 1.5kW pump. I bought a generic VFD rated at 2kW for about 200 Euros, it's a nice little unit and allows you to program it and provides 2 free inputs to connect contacts and switches. I used these to attach a low water sensor, so the pump will shut off when the well is dry.
    The startup speed of the VFD is entirely adjustable, I've set mine up to start within a 10 sec window so there is hardly any startup current at all - the slower you set it, the lower the startup current.

    There are more fancy units available specifically designed for water pumping, some have built in pressure sensors so that they regulate the pump speed to give a constant output pressure... but these tend to cost a lot more.
  • WilisWilis Solar Expert Posts: 84 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Solar Well Pumping

    CenTex,
    Because I already had the well and pump, I did buy the larger inverter and install a larger system. If and when I do have to replace the pump I may rethink my setup. I am using a 24v battery system. My concerns with a smaller DC pump was I would have to have a holding tank for water and then a separate pump for pressure. I explained what I wanted to do to Naws and they designed a system to do just what I ask, very easy people to work with. After running this system for a few months and learning much from this forum I would consider a 48v system. On days I don’t have to run AC my power use is 13 to 15KW. I do use wood for heat but do heat water, cook and dry some cloths with electric. We do air dry about ¾ of our cloths. My advice to anyone thinking about a solar system is read as many of the posts on this forum and think of where you might want to grow to in a few years. It is so nice to be able to run your house when the grid is down. Last Fri. I was working on the computer and the light in the room went out. I knew the important electrical appliance were on solar and didn’t care how long the grid was down. It was only for 59 min but that was fine. We do have monthly outages and in 1993 we were out of power for 7 days because of snow. I will never pay back my solar system but I knew that when I purchased it. :p
    My solar panels are 9 Kyocera KD210GX-LP. 3 in series and 3 strings.
  • bbbuddybbbuddy Solar Expert Posts: 134 ✭✭✭
    Re: Solar Well Pumping
    stephendv wrote: »
    Aye, what BB said :D
    I have a VFD and 3 phase well pump for a 120m borehole with a 1.5kW pump. I bought a generic VFD rated at 2kW for about 200 Euros, it's a nice little unit and allows you to program it and provides 2 free inputs to connect contacts and switches. I used these to attach a low water sensor, so the pump will shut off when the well is dry.
    The startup speed of the VFD is entirely adjustable, I've set mine up to start within a 10 sec window so there is hardly any startup current at all - the slower you set it, the lower the startup current.

    There are more fancy units available specifically designed for water pumping, some have built in pressure sensors so that they regulate the pump speed to give a constant output pressure... but these tend to cost a lot more.

    I would like to know more about this!

    What size inverter do you use to start the 1.5 hp well pump?
    What is the make and mosel of the VFD?

    I would like the capability to run my 240 volt 1hp 2 wire well pump should the gennie quit on me...
    Magnum4024PAE, 2 Midnite Classic 150s, 3100watts solar, 432ah lifepo4 battery.  Off grid since 2004.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 31,784 admin
    Re: Solar Well Pumping

    See this well pumping thread... Stephendv and others have a few more details there.

    With a two wire AC pump--I don't think you can use a VFD... You would have to replace the motor with a 3 wire (single phase+starting coil lead) or a true 3 phase motor.

    The VFD is basically a electronic inverter (sort of like your off-grid inverter)... But it has a 2 or 3 phase output that can vary current and frequency to give motors a "soft start" of lower current and frequency and ramp it up to speed (or run at lower speeds for more efficient pumping when low flows are all that is required).

    So, the "power costs" of the VFD should be, more or less, the maximum HP (watts, not even V*A or kVA/kVAR of the motor) plus a ~5%-10% or so power loss to run the VFD electronics.

    In the end, with a VFD equipped pump, you should be able to run a much smaller inverter (and battery bank) as they do not need to supply surge loads.

    Some pumps (like the Grundfos and Sunpumps--at least) actually have the VFD electronics built into the pump itself (or in the associated control box).

    I have not yet read through the VFD equipment links in the above thread--But it should be interesting.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • stephendvstephendv Solar Expert Posts: 1,571 ✭✭
    Re: Solar Well Pumping

    Hmmm, a single phase (2 wire) motor is a problem. VFDs really work best with 3 phase motors, but apparently they can be used with some types of single phase motors, see:
    http://invertek.co.uk/product_optidrive_e21.aspx

    Note that they specifically state that high torque startup applications like high head pumps are not suitable for their single phase VFD.

    EDIT: Btw, the one I got was an idrive: http://www.imopc.com/content.php?p=products# which is a low cost drive compared to the same company's more professional Jaguar drives. Only run the pump for an hour a day so no need for anything fancy.

    You probably have many more options for suppliers in the US.
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,956 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Solar Well Pumping

    I checked the wind and sun store and they said they have nothing for this application. Are they wrong?
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • stephendvstephendv Solar Expert Posts: 1,571 ✭✭
    Re: Solar Well Pumping

    I couldn't find any on their site either. Here are few resellers that came up in a search:
    http://www.driveswarehouse.com/
    http://www.variablefrequencydrives.net/
    http://www.dealerselectric.com/
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 31,784 admin
    Re: Solar Well Pumping

    They only have "integrated solutions" (i.e., gundfos and sunpumps) that I can see.

    You may wish to contact Sunpumps directly... I don't know their business model but they seem to offer "one off" engineered solutions too. It looks like they are changing their product lines too--So it is difficult from their website to find any appropriate solutions for your setup without calling.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,298 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Solar Well Pumping

    single phase 2 wire pumps are hard to start.

    single phase 3 wire pumps are a bit easier, the starting cap is at the control box, not in the pump.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 5,956 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Solar Well Pumping
    BB. wrote: »
    They only have "integrated solutions" (i.e., gundfos and sunpumps) that I can see.

    You may wish to contact Sunpumps directly... I don't know their business model but they seem to offer "one off" engineered solutions too. It looks like they are changing their product lines too--So it is difficult from their website to find any appropriate solutions for your setup without calling.

    -Bill

    The way I have to look at anything that is not commonly available is skeptical.
    Longevity, wholesale pricing, and model numbers get my attention. I'm still with Mike on his experience! Speaking of model numbers on refrigerators Mike???
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • stephendvstephendv Solar Expert Posts: 1,571 ✭✭
    Re: Solar Well Pumping

    Are there any generic solar pump controllers available? I'm thinking of something like the grundfos SQFlex system uses, except aimed at any old 3 phase pump. Seems like there would be a gap in the market for something like that:

    MPPT circuit -> VFD with 240V 3 phase output -> 240V 3 phase submersible pump.
  • poppypoppy Registered Users Posts: 5
    Re: Solar Well Pumping

    Hello Centex Grundfos makes a submersible pump that works off 30 to 300 volts ac or dc. Pump dia. 3" Poppy
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,298 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Solar Well Pumping
    poppy wrote: »
    Hello Centex Grundfos makes a submersible pump that works off 30 to 300 volts ac or dc. Pump dia. 3" Poppy

    I think it also needs a several hundred dollar controller to run it too. Got to remember to price all the parts out.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • bbbuddybbbuddy Solar Expert Posts: 134 ✭✭✭
    Re: Solar Well Pumping
    stephendv wrote: »
    Hmmm, a single phase (2 wire) motor is a problem. VFDs really work best with 3 phase motors, but apparently they can be used with some types of single phase motors, see:
    http://invertek.co.uk/product_optidrive_e21.aspx

    Note that they specifically state that high torque startup applications like high head pumps are not suitable for their single phase VFD.

    EDIT: Btw, the one I got was an idrive: http://www.imopc.com/content.php?p=products# which is a low cost drive compared to the same company's more professional Jaguar drives. Only run the pump for an hour a day so no need for anything fancy.

    You probably have many more options for suppliers in the US.


    Thanks for the info. I will stay with my 2 wire 1 hp pump, because it pumps 42 gpm from 80 feet into my 3000 gallon tank.

    I can run it on a cheap gennie as small as 3500/4000 surge, so a 4000 watt inverter should work fine.
    Magnum4024PAE, 2 Midnite Classic 150s, 3100watts solar, 432ah lifepo4 battery.  Off grid since 2004.
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,298 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Solar Well Pumping
    bbbuddy wrote: »
    .....

    I can run it on a cheap gennie as small as 3500/4000 surge, so a 4000 watt inverter should work fine.

    Generators have flywheels, and can power the high start surge for 1 second, get the inverter on "trial" and make sure it can start the pump reliably without cutting off. 1hp is 2,000w running, I'd expect at least 10,000w for the start cycle. That means the batteries and cables have to be albe to source that much without low voltage disconnect kicking in.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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