Off Grid Newbie needs some help...

RogueValleyHomestead
RogueValleyHomestead Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭
in Solar Beginners Corner #1
I'm living on a piece of property in the Rogue Valley of Southern Oregon, and I'm trying to put together a Solar panel system for pumping water out of a shallow well (12 ft deep max) during the summer months. I want to keep the system as simple as possible, as I don't ever plan to run power tools or appliances from it. However, charging a laptop battery, or a few rechargeable AA's would be nice. So my question is, can I buy something like the Shurflo 2088 12v pump and a few 100 watt 12v panels and then hack all the wires together directly (with a wire crimp and electrical tape)? I know this would restrict me to daytime full-sun usage, but that's not a problem. Is this even possible? Or do I need to invest in batteries, charge controllers, inverters, regulators, etc.? Any advice appreciated.
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: Off Grid Newbie needs some help...

    Sounds like the hack would work (with adding in the charge controller and fuses) , keep a minimal battery bank, 200W of solar and a 12V pump. I wonder what the life of your selected pump is ? 12v, brushed motor, or electronic motor ?

    There are also "Linear Boosters" just for pumping, to keep the motor from stalling at dawn/dusk
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • mikeo
    mikeo Solar Expert Posts: 386 ✭✭✭
    #3
    Re: Off Grid Newbie needs some help...
    can I buy something like the Shurflo 2088 12v pump and a few 100 watt 12v panels and then hack all the wires together directly
    Hi, for a reliable system I would look into something like this:
    http://store.solar-electric.com/sh93susowapu.html
    also maybe consider their controller to get greater efficiency for your solar panels
    http://store.solar-electric.com/902-100.html
    You can wire two 12 volt nominal 100-120 watt panels in series to this system to pump water during bright sun hours.
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  • RogueValleyHomestead
    RogueValleyHomestead Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭
    #4
    Re: Off Grid Newbie needs some help...

    Good suggestion mikeo, that was exactly the type of info I was looking for.

    Efficiency wise, is it preferable to purchase multiple lower watt panels (2 x 100w @12v), or one larger watt panel (1 x 200w+ @24v+)?

    Also, could I hack a female cigarette lighter to the wires coming from the solar panel(s) for a quick and dirty laptop battery charging solution?
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: Off Grid Newbie needs some help...
    RogueValleyHomestead wrote: »
    I'm living on a piece of property in the Rogue Valley of Southern Oregon, and I'm trying to put together a Solar panel system for pumping water out of a shallow well (12 ft deep max) during the summer months. I want to keep the system as simple as possible, as I don't ever plan to run power tools or appliances from it. However, charging a laptop battery, or a few rechargeable AA's would be nice. So my question is, can I buy something like the Shurflo 2088 12v pump and a few 100 watt 12v panels and then hack all the wires together directly (with a wire crimp and electrical tape)? I know this would restrict me to daytime full-sun usage, but that's not a problem. Is this even possible? Or do I need to invest in batteries, charge controllers, inverters, regulators, etc.? Any advice appreciated.

    Do not attempt to run the ShurFlo directly from solar panels. Definitely add a battery and charge controller and get steady, regulated "12 VDC". The big cost is always the panels, so one small charge controller & battery won't be so much extra. The big question is: how much power are you going to need? You have to have some sort of "target" for production otherwise you can't calculate the size of battery/panels/controller.

    Charging a laptop is a whole 'nother kettle of fish. It depends on which laptop and how you want to charge it (via car adapter, direct DC, wall wart, et cetera).

    12 feet of depth is the limit for the 2088, btw.

    And don't forget the fuses!
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  • RogueValleyHomestead
    RogueValleyHomestead Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭
    #6
    Re: Off Grid Newbie needs some help...
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    The big question is: how much power are you going to need? You have to have some sort of "target" for production otherwise you can't calculate the size of battery/panels/controller.

    Based on the information I could find on the 2088, the maximum amperage in use is between 10-15, so 15(amps) x 12(volts) = 190(watts). So I was thinking that 2 x 100 watt panels should cover my needs, as I don't plan on using the pump at it's maximum level if I can help it. Did I figure that correctly?
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    Do not attempt to run the ShurFlo directly from solar panels. Definitely add a battery and charge controller and get steady, regulated "12 VDC".

    Is this necessary? What would happen, theoretically, if the pump was connected directly to the panel(s), and the voltage was fluctuating? Would that fry the pump, or damage the panels?
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #7
    Re: Off Grid Newbie needs some help...

    You need a "Linear Current Booster Pump Driver For 12 or 24 volt pumps"
    here or here This keeps the motor from burning out.

    At max depth, you will not move much water at all, you may need a different pump.

    200W of panels will only deliver 160W under good conditions (STC spec vs PTC)

    larger panels are more efficient, for wireing and mounting.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #8
    Re: Off Grid Newbie needs some help...
    RogueValleyHomestead wrote: »
    Based on the information I could find on the 2088, the maximum amperage in use is between 10-15, so 15(amps) x 12(volts) = 190(watts). So I was thinking that 2 x 100 watt panels should cover my needs, as I don't plan on using the pump at it's maximum level if I can help it. Did I figure that correctly?

    Basically, yes. But how long do you need to run the pump? These things are capable of 3.6 GPM max, and the more lift they have to do the slower the flow rate will be. Even at 3 GPM you'd need to run the pump for .... How much water do you need per day? It's better to "pump while you can" and store it up in a pressure tank than to hope you'll have sunshine when you need water. At 60 gallons per day, the pump would need 20 minutes of run time @ 190 Watts - that's about 64 Watt hours. It would not be difficult to get a small battery (like this: http://store.solar-electric.com/de8a34ampho1.html ) to handle this and allow just one panel to recharge it.

    Is this necessary? What would happen, theoretically, if the pump was connected directly to the panel(s), and the voltage was fluctuating? Would that fry the pump, or damage the panels?

    A "12 Volt" solar panel actually puts out 17.5 Volts maximum power because it is designed to recharge batteries. So either go the controller & battery route or get the linear booster like Mike said. Running it directly is bound to be bad for the pump motor.

    In my opinion, having the battery set-up will give you much more flexibility and allow you to do other things with the power.
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  • RogueValleyHomestead
    RogueValleyHomestead Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭
    #9
    Re: Off Grid Newbie needs some help...
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    Basically, yes. But how long do you need to run the pump? These things are capable of 3.6 GPM max, and the more lift they have to do the slower the flow rate will be. Even at 3 GPM you'd need to run the pump for .... How much water do you need per day? It's better to "pump while you can" and store it up in a pressure tank than to hope you'll have sunshine when you need water. At 60 gallons per day, the pump would need 20 minutes of run time @ 190 Watts - that's about 64 Watt hours. It would not be difficult to get a small battery (like this: http://store.solar-electric.com/de8a34ampho1.html ) to handle this and allow just one panel to recharge it.

    I forgot to mention that the water being pumped is going into a cistern for the purpose of collecting water for summer orchard watering needs. So whatever the pump was able to give per day (into the cistern) would be far better than the current system we are using, which is carrying 5 gallon buckets from the well to the cistern several hours each day.

    But from the replies given so far it looks like I need to reconsider the pump I chose, as well as a pump controller for direct-to-panel usage. The battery suggestion is also cheaper than I had thought, so I'm going to look into that more deeply as well.

    Thanks for all the suggestions and advice, as it's hard to find clear and concise answers from experienced solar users on the internet, so this forum is a real treasure.:D
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