IKEA Phasing Out Incandescent Bulbs 1Yr. Early

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Horus
Horus Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭
in Energy Use & Conservation #1
So if your from Canada you probably already know that the government is phasing out CFL's starting in the year 2012. Well IKEA will be starting to phase out all incandescent sales starting in one month, and plans to have them completely gone by 2011.

I think it's a good sign to see companies trying to stay ahead of the curve when it comes to energy efficiency and regulation.

For the story i read click here
http://enviralment.wordpress.com/2010/06/16/ikea-to-be-the-first-canadian-retailer-to-phase-out-incandescent-bulbs/

Or to go straight to the horses mouth here
www.ikea.ca/theneverendinglist
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #2
    Re: IKEA Phasing Out Incandescent Bulbs 1Yr. Early

    That is pretty sweet. Is that ban in Canada only?
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  • blackswan555
    blackswan555 Solar Expert Posts: 246 ✭✭
    #3
    Re: IKEA Phasing Out Incandescent Bulbs 1Yr. Early

    CFL`s, My thoughts on them , Comments/ observations/Abuse ;)?

    Design, A lot of the light emitting surface faces it-self, The higher the wattage the worse, If you look at them , In a large one, at a rough guesstimate only 20% ish faces outwards unobstructed.

    Efficiency and being sold as the best thing since sliced bread for the environment,
    It is just not true, the waste from the above mentioned is poor,
    The fact that they are sold as eg 20w, The one I tested uses 36 VA, ( And a 40w incan gives a far better light) We work in VA, the power station generates and uses fuel in VA, You pay your electric bill in W, you are saving money (until smart meters maybe) But coupled with poor efficiency & high manufacturing costs ( environmental & $/£/€) Are you saving anything ??? hmm

    Claimed lifespan, Yes maybe if it is a cool place, high quality, In the right orientation, with zero vibration, left on permanently, And you had blue socks on accompanied by both your great grandparents when you bought it,
    But if you switch it on and off, put it inside a light fitting, let it get too hot, too cold, too humid or expect much more than a hall way light to live with,,,,,, :D


    My first experiencing with them was about 20ish years ago, A turkey farm, They swapped out the approx 200 40w incans per shed for an early Phillips version of them that looked like a jamjar ( and weighed about the same as a full one lol, changed a few fittings as-well)
    The turkeys stopped eating and started dying, the PF was so bad they actually used more electricity than the incans, (old industrial, they were charged in VA)
    And IIRC they were about £70 each back then, All the staff took them home and hated them lol,

    Rant over :D Obviously there is the odd good use for them and there are a few that have reached what they were supposed to, but not any that I have ever used,

    Have a good one
    Tim

    PS Sun valley or Phillips never did come to a conclusion why the birds did not like them, The general thought was because of the light they gave, But they used normal flouro`s on other sites without problems (they were just a lot harder to clean / keep hygienic though)
    I was always suspicious that it was the amount of EMR they give out, That was a lot of little transmitters close together,
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #4
    Re: IKEA Phasing Out Incandescent Bulbs 1Yr. Early

    According to some reports CFL's not only contain mercury, but also emit higher-then-incandescent levels UV and the dreaded electromagnetic field. Admittedly these reports are rather dubious, at least to that ol' skeptic me. But I agree with blackswan555; this "let's all jump on the 'green' bandwagon before we know where it's headed" attitude is likely trouble waiting. That bandwagon may be going over a cliff.

    CFL's don't perform well in cold temps, are sturdy enough for rugged applications, and aren't a good investment for 'occasional use' lighting. They have their place, but to eliminate the choice of incandescent by law is a very bad thing. If CFL's are truly so great, market forces will put them in place; no legislation needed.

    Does anybody really shop at Ikea? I thought they just sourced goods for garage sales and Craigslist! :p
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: IKEA Phasing Out Incandescent Bulbs 1Yr. Early
    altenergy wrote: »
    That is pretty sweet. Is that ban in Canada only?

    California too, next year.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,693 admin
    #6
    Re: IKEA Phasing Out Incandescent Bulbs 1Yr. Early

    The early Phillips CFL's (as I remember) were magnetic ballasts and probably ran at line frequency (50/60 Hz).

    My guess is the line frequency flickering could have really messed with their brains. (it may also be the 60/120 Hz electrical buzz too???).

    Humans--Most people cannot see the 120 Hz "flashing" in most cases--but (if I recall correctly)--People too have complained about florescent flicker.

    That is why most florescent fixtures where designed with double tubes. The magnetic ballasts would offset one tube from the other so that as one tube hit zero current, the other tube was as maximum.

    Now, pretty much all CFL's (and new florescent fixtures) have electronic ballasts which operate at a minimum of ~17-20 kHz. It stops (at least for humans) the flickering issues and also keeps the human above the range of human hearing.

    I would not doubt that it could have been something else (missing spectrum--not matching sun's spectrum, UV issues, etc.)--Interesting results.

    I don't think that High VA (vs high Watts) causes much additional fuel usage by a power station--However, high VA is exactly the same (if not worse) than the equivalent Watts for all the physical hardware, wiring, generators, transformers, etc. Running at 50% power factors is the same as equivalent Watts in terms of current flow... So, there is the same amount of copper, fuses, breakers, generators, transmission lines, etc. to run 100 watt filament as a 50 watt (100 VA) CFL with bad power factor.

    In California, approximatly 1/2 the bill is transmission / distribution costs. And the other have is "generation" costs (of which, I would guess that much of that is physical costs for the generator hardware itself)--It would make perfect business sense for utilities to charge everyone for VA (KVAR--Kilo Volt-Amp Reactive) or "apparent power" vs watts like they do today for residences.

    In California, many times businesses charge reservation charges--which is the highest KVAR for 15 minutes out of a year--So they are very sensitive to bad power factor costs. (and reservation charges can be 1/2 of the power bill or more if bad PF).

    And--for things like CFL's--their bad power factor cannot be corrected by using motor run capacitors (like can be done for electric motors). Their PF correction needs better ballasts (PFC--power factor corrected) ballasts. Which (from what little I have seen) is very rare for CFL's (but may not be rare for standard tube-type florescent fixtures--I don't have any idea about the mix of non-pfc vs pfc tube type florescent fixtures).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • AntronX
    AntronX Solar Expert Posts: 462 ✭✭
    #7
    Re: IKEA Phasing Out Incandescent Bulbs 1Yr. Early

    When poor PF becomes an issue, manufacturers will design in-CFL PFC ballasts. For any business it would be silly to deploy large amounts of CFLs. Most office and retail space is lit by more efficient T8 tubes, and PFC ballasts are available and are cheap for those lights. For example, I use Philips F32T8 Alto lights rated 2500 lumens and 25W or 100 lumens/Watt. CFLs are around 60 lumens/Watt. There is ballast loss, but those are very efficient, around 85 - 93%.
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  • retrodog
    retrodog Solar Expert Posts: 53 ✭✭
    #8
    Re: IKEA Phasing Out Incandescent Bulbs 1Yr. Early
    Horus wrote: »
    So if your from Canada you probably already know that the government is phasing out CFL's starting in the year 2012. Well IKEA will be starting to phase out all incandescent sales starting in one month, and plans to have them completely gone by 2011.

    I think it's a good sign to see companies trying to stay ahead of the curve when it comes to energy efficiency and regulation.

    For the story i read click here
    http://enviralment.wordpress.com/2010/06/16/ikea-to-be-the-first-canadian-retailer-to-phase-out-incandescent-bulbs/

    Or to go straight to the horses mouth here
    www.ikea.ca/theneverendinglist

    Was this a mistake or are they really phasing out CFLs?
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #9
    Re: IKEA Phasing Out Incandescent Bulbs 1Yr. Early
    retrodog wrote: »
    Was this a mistake or are they really phasing out CFLs?

    They should, at $5,000 cleanup cost for a broken one. Imagine the horror if a tractor trailer full of them (CFL) was in a wreck !!
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • AntronX
    AntronX Solar Expert Posts: 462 ✭✭
    #10
    Re: IKEA Phasing Out Incandescent Bulbs 1Yr. Early
    mike90045 wrote: »
    They should, at $5,000 cleanup cost for a broken one. Imagine the horror if a tractor trailer full of them (CFL) was in a wreck !!

    I'll do it for $1000. Where do I sign up?
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #11
    Re: IKEA Phasing Out Incandescent Bulbs 1Yr. Early
    AntronX wrote: »
    I'll do it for $1000. Where do I sign up?

    Do which part ?? :D
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

    · Share on Twitter
  • dwh
    dwh Solar Expert Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭
    #12
    Re: IKEA Phasing Out Incandescent Bulbs 1Yr. Early
    retrodog wrote: »
    Was this a mistake or are they really phasing out CFLs?

    Typo I think. Probably supposed to say that Canada is phasing out incandescents, not CFLs.
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  • AntronX
    AntronX Solar Expert Posts: 462 ✭✭
    #13
    Re: IKEA Phasing Out Incandescent Bulbs 1Yr. Early
    mike90045 wrote: »
    Do which part ?? :D

    Haha, nice one. Actually, I would never have to work again if I got to clean up a tractor trailer worth of them at $1K per bulb.
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  • AntronX
    AntronX Solar Expert Posts: 462 ✭✭
    #14
    Re: IKEA Phasing Out Incandescent Bulbs 1Yr. Early

    But, I am surely going to miss those old incandescent bulbs when they finally disappear from stores. How can I forget warm full spectrum "analog" light they emit, and the satisfaction of smashing burned out bulbs against the wall. I am gonna stop by the hardware store to buy few just for memories...
    3338776771_22e2442958.jpg
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  • retrodog
    retrodog Solar Expert Posts: 53 ✭✭
    #15
    Re: IKEA Phasing Out Incandescent Bulbs 1Yr. Early

    I still use them, but only at a few very specific locations. The front and back door have them as night lights. But those only get turned on occasionally. And I want that instant full power at those locations. I switched over to CFLs about 6-8 years ago to eliminate excess heat generation in a Houston area house. Cutting back on everything that fights against the air conditioner is a good idea. The power savings of the bulb was just a secondary benefit.

    I also like how they allow you to install a brighter bulb in some light fixtures than what they are rated for. I've got a few 100W equivalent bulbs in fixtures that are rated for 70W max. They don't get hot at all and are very bright.
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #16
    Re: IKEA Phasing Out Incandescent Bulbs 1Yr. Early

    i still use incandescent light bulbs in my bathroom tub area and small ones in the frig. cfls don't do well in those areas.
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