solar output paralleled with wind turbine output

SystemSystem Posts: 2,511 admin
I was thinking about pairing solar cells output with a wind generator output.
solar cells in parallel for max amps, and in parallel with the output of the wind turbine for higher voltage..

Would this work ??
Do the solar cells need to be @ a specific end of the circuit or in a specific configuration ??

I look forward to reading forum members thoughts, even if the idea is incorrect.

Comments

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 30,058 admin
    Re: solar output paralleled with wind turbine output

    You probably will not gain any reasonable amount of power out of trying to series/parallels solar panels with wind turbines to increase their output voltage.

    Basically, the solar cells/panels (proper voltage and current) through a solar charge controller to a battery bank.

    And, if you wish, (typically) tie your wind turbine directly to your battery bank and place (two recommended) "shunt", "dump", or "diversion" mode (same thing) charge controllers to dump excess energy to resistance heaters for when the battery bank is charged and the wind is blowing (two independent controllers/dump loads required by NEC in US).

    There is some thing you can do to a wind turbine to bump up the output voltage--but it depends on the alternator design and configuration. One type is:

    Three Phase Voltage Multiplier (Cockcroft-Walton)

    In general, you need to treat each energy source into the battery bank as a separate entity. Trying to coordinate wind and sun (or other variable power sources) to somehow interact/boost each other is, most likely, not going to be successful.

    If you want, tell us what you have and what you need to do (XYZ solar panels and ABC wind turbine into a XX volt battery bank with YY AH capacity).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: solar output paralleled with wind turbine output

    thnx Bill...

    the project Im working on is only a test..

    I have 4 boostcap capacitors / 2.7V - 310F

    Since these capacitors can pretty much absorb whatever energy I can supply, I want to parallel the solar cells for maximum amps. I have approx. 36 seperate cells positioned in varying degrees (not flat panel)..

    an example of the cells formation: quarter of a half of a mirrored disco ball ..

    The generator is designed so that the output is determined by the load...
    So I use a variable resistor or potentiometer to adjust the output to a very small load, since I only need the voltage..

    Trying to coordinate wind and sun to interact/boost each other
    can this be done ??

    take the voltage from the generator and amps from the solar cells to quick charge ultra capacitors ?
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 30,058 admin
    Re: solar output paralleled with wind turbine output

    myzter,

    I am still not quite understanding what you want to accomplish...

    Capacitors and Batteries are quite different in they way they store energy and the circuits required to "efficiently" charge/load capacitors is quite a bit more complex than that to support battery based energy storage.

    A battery is a (more or less) a constant voltage source--very easy to setup to charge and discharge.

    A capacitor stores energy:
    • Work = 1/2 * C * V^2 (in Watt*Seconds)
    So, the energy stored is proportional to the square of the voltage. To efficiently charge something like this would typically require some sort of switching power supply (perhaps setup as a current source--or if you are very enterprising--an MPPT type design.

    And to discharge into your load--it has to be able to deal with a range of voltage and current as the capacitor discharges.

    Also, note that the energy (work) stored in the capacitor is Watt*Seconds... For batteries (and our homes) we usually use Watt*Hours or even kWH (kilo or 1,000 Watt*Hours). So, even super caps do not store that much energy when compared to a standard storage battery. There are 3,600 Watt*Seconds in 1 Watt*Hour (approximate amount of energy in one AA battery).

    Plus, super caps usually have limited cycle life (like a battery) and some S.C. installations have run into costs to replace them every year or so because of limited cycle life...

    Typically, the only way to reliably coordinate various energy sources for a common load is to have them independently charge a common battery bank.

    Then, with that common battery bank, use a power supply to "transform" the energy from the battery bank into the needed voltage/amperage/frequency.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • skadudeskadude Registered Users Posts: 4
    Re: solar output paralleled with wind turbine output

    myzter,

    Won't work. Mainly because PV is DC, and wind turbines are all AC in nature.

    Also, trying to feed current through a motor/generator may cause it to act like a fan rather than a wind turbine, all depending on the type of machine in the wind turbine.
  • 65DegN65DegN Solar Expert Posts: 106 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: solar output paralleled with wind turbine output

    Even if the turbine is DC, when its voltage rises above the solar panel voltage it will heat the PV array and waste power (at best).
    That could be a real problem during cloudy, windy days or at night.
    I suspect for best results keep the two isolated.
    Even if I am connecting solar panels of different parameters to the same battery bank I will isolate them with seperate controllers.
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,614 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: solar output paralleled with wind turbine output

    You need a charge controller for each system. Controllers can feed the same battery bank.
    You have 2 very different sources, and need 2 controllers. Or sit there 24/7 with a volt meter and a switch.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 8,614 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: solar output paralleled with wind turbine output

    post snippage follows:
    I want to parallel the solar cells for maximum amps.

    The generator is designed so that the output is determined by the load...

    So I use a variable resistor or potentiometer to adjust the output to a very small load, since I only need the voltage..

    Trying to coordinate wind and sun to interact/boost each other
    can this be done ??

    take the voltage from the generator and amps from the solar cells to quick charge ultra capacitors

    From here, go back to electronics school, study watts: Watts in = (watts out - loss) and you will have a better understanding of why this won't work.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • dwhdwh Solar Expert Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭
    Re: solar output paralleled with wind turbine output
    myzter wrote: »
    The generator is designed so that the output is determined by the load...

    All forms of electrical generation already work like that. It's the nature of the beast.

    Electricity isn't tangible. It doesn't actually exist until there is a place for it to go - like a battery or a hair dryer or a light bulb or whatever. Until then, it is only a *potential*.

    It's not real - it's POTENTIALLY real.

    So you can have a generator with a generating *potential* of umpteen goombawatts, but if nothing is plugged in, it isn't making any electricity. Plug in a tiny load - say 20 watts - and whala! like magic, the umpteen goombawatt generator is now producing 20 watts of electricity.

    It can't make umpteen goombawatts of actual electricity unless you plug in an umpteen goombawatt LOAD (a place for the electricity to go).
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