Looking for Kaneka's new hybrid 110w PV's

papa
papa Solar Expert Posts: 51 ✭✭
in General Solar Power Topics #1
Does anyone know of an verified, "IN STOCK" source for Kaneka's, recently released (Dec '09) 110w modules? I've been in the hunt since Feb and have unearth, at least, half-a-dozen sites touting "in stock". Three times I've bought and paid for these modules from 3 different sources, only to learn later (after my account was charged) that the requested PV's were either "not in stock" or there was a 4 to 6 week "lead time". Even the Morningstar MPPT controller I bought (and paid for) was said to be "back ordered".

I'm at wits end with this situation and any suggestions to a valid and reliable supplier would be greatly appreciated. I'm in So. Idaho so I'd prefer to avoid east coast suppliers due to increased shipping costs. Thank You
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #2
    Re: Looking for Kaneka's new hybrid 110w PV's

    They say there is a price war, and PV makers are starving, and warehouses are full, but try to buy and get something in hand, and it's delay, delay....
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
    Re: Looking for Kaneka's new hybrid 110w PV's
    mike90045 wrote: »
    They say there is a price war, and PV makers are starving, and warehouses are full, but try to buy and get something in hand, and it's delay, delay....

    This is the model of most installer/suppliers, let the stuff be drop shipped from some super warehouse. That way they get the latest price and don't have to stock inventory in a falling price market.
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  • AntronX
    AntronX Solar Expert Posts: 462 ✭✭
    #4
    Re: Looking for Kaneka's new hybrid 110w PV's
    papa wrote: »
    Does anyone know of an verified, "IN STOCK" source for Kaneka's, recently released (Dec '09) 110w modules?

    No, but would you be interested in 100W thin-film panels from Dupont?
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  • papa
    papa Solar Expert Posts: 51 ✭✭
    #5
    Re: Looking for Kaneka's new hybrid 110w PV's
    solar_dave wrote: »
    This is the model of most installer/suppliers, let the stuff be drop shipped from some super warehouse. That way they get the latest price and don't have to stock inventory in a falling price market.
    I have NO problems with drop shipping, but advertising it as "In Stock", or no indication of otherwise, then 'we' have a problem. The second issue I have been tripping over (with staggering regularity), is bogus shipping calculators. This happen not 3 days ago when I whipped-out my plastic, filled-in all the right blanks, and 'thought' I'd gotten a fair deal. Not so,.. the retailer emailed me and said that not only was the $600 module I selected not at his location, but instead some 400 miles further from my zip - and that I needed to pay an additional $175 over and above the already paid $55.
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  • papa
    papa Solar Expert Posts: 51 ✭✭
    #6
    Re: Looking for Kaneka's new hybrid 110w PV's
    AntronX wrote: »
    No, but would you be interested in 100W thin-film panels from Dupont?
    Appreciate the suggestion - Two problems with the Dupont.

    1. Voc is too high, my controller will only accommodate 75Voc
    2. IIRC that supplier is in Florida... some 3000 miles from me.
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  • Windsun
    Windsun Solar Expert Posts: 1,164 ✭✭
    #7
    Re: Looking for Kaneka's new hybrid 110w PV's
    papa wrote: »
    Appreciate the suggestion - Two problems with the Dupont.

    1. Voc is too high, my controller will only accommodate 75Voc
    2. IIRC that supplier is in Florida... some 3000 miles from me.

    The Voc on the Kaneka's is over 80 volts according to some specs, but even the Kaneka site does not seem to have an official spec sheet.
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  • stephendv
    stephendv Solar Expert Posts: 1,571 ✭✭
    #8
    Re: Looking for Kaneka's new hybrid 110w PV's

    Initial values of 81Voc stabilised to 71Voc on the Kaneka's. Data sheet here:
    http://download.solarshop.net/english/index.php?act=view&id=153
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  • papa
    papa Solar Expert Posts: 51 ✭✭
    #9
    Re: Looking for Kaneka's new hybrid 110w PV's
    Windsun wrote: »
    The Voc on the Kaneka's is over 80 volts according to some specs, but even the Kaneka site does not seem to have an official spec sheet.
    Kaneka makes different modules with different specs. Their 'low voltage' P-LE055 is rated at 55w and produces 23Voc.

    http://www.pv.kaneka.co.jp/products/
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  • stephendv
    stephendv Solar Expert Posts: 1,571 ✭✭
    #10
    Re: Looking for Kaneka's new hybrid 110w PV's

    The OP was asking about the new 110W hybrid panels.
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,894 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #11
    Re: Looking for Kaneka's new hybrid 110w PV's

    You can buy these from your pump manufacturer (grunfos I am guessing) for a generous markup! Look under their water pumping pages!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • papa
    papa Solar Expert Posts: 51 ✭✭
    #12
    Re: Looking for Kaneka's new hybrid 110w PV's
    Dave Sparks wrote: »
    You can buy these from your pump manufacturer (grunfos I am guessing) for a generous markup! Look under their water pumping pages!
    You means these? 80w 41.5Voc

    PDF link here: http://www.us.grundfos.com/web/Download.nsf/b21d4b71af37dbe5082568a9000959ac/f022fa20b451057588256b7b005019ad?OpenDocument
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,894 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #13
    Re: Looking for Kaneka's new hybrid 110w PV's

    I just know that they use that make but maybe not that model. What pump do you have? The 125vdc mppt is near the sweet spot for the SQ flex.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • papa
    papa Solar Expert Posts: 51 ✭✭
    #14
    Re: Looking for Kaneka's new hybrid 110w PV's
    Dave Sparks wrote: »
    I just know that they use that make but maybe not that model. What pump do you have? The 125vdc mppt is near the sweet spot for the SQ flex.
    I'm not designing to pump anything. I'm leaning towards off-grid right now.

    To re-empathize, I planned this system around the Kaneka modules. The only other module which I considered and ultimately did purchase, was the older Sanyo HIP series. That (paid for) transaction got axed because the retailer tried to tack-on an additional $175 freight for a 900 mile distance.
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  • papa
    papa Solar Expert Posts: 51 ✭✭
    #15
    Re: Looking for Kaneka's new hybrid 110w PV's

    Also,...

    Just last night, while module fishing, I spotted the new Sunforce CIGS 'Pro' model. Sadly, I have been unable to verify the specs - even Sunforces' down-loadable manual from their site doesn't state numbers, and the performance graphs are disturbingly illegible. Specs anyone?
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  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,894 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #16
    Re: Looking for Kaneka's new hybrid 110w PV's

    OK, so your not pumping then the most logical way to pick solar panels is to state what your system voltage will be. The most efficient way to make power is pick the sweet spot where there is enough voltage but not so much that the conversion loss stacks up. Good Luck and check the store here on the site!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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  • papa
    papa Solar Expert Posts: 51 ✭✭
    #17
    Re: Looking for Kaneka's new hybrid 110w PV's
    Dave Sparks wrote: »
    OK, so your not pumping then the most logical way to pick solar panels is to state what your system voltage will be. The most efficient way to make power is pick the sweet spot where there is enough voltage but not so much that the conversion loss stacks up. Good Luck and check the store here on the site!
    This is a small build, 300/400w, 24v storage. PV's rated as close to 75Voc as possible - for 3 reasons:

    * Modules wired in parallel - if one module fails, the system is still fully functional, but at a lower amperage. In series strings, a single module loss renders the whole string useless - this is especially critical on small, lower wattage builds where cost and space constraints limit the total # of modules.
    * Smaller gauge wires from PV-to-controller - cheaper, without inducing major system losses.
    * The chosen MPPT controller allows up to 75Voc. From Morningstar:

    "the greater the difference between the maximum power voltage and battery voltage, the greater the current boost. Current boost can be substantial in systems where the solar array is of a higher
    nominal voltage than the battery    "
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #18
    Re: Looking for Kaneka's new hybrid 110w PV's
    papa wrote: »
    * Modules wired in parallel - if one module fails, the system is still fully functional, but at a lower amperage. In series strings, a single module loss renders the whole string useless - this is especially critical on small, lower wattage builds where cost and space constraints limit the total # of modules.

    All crystalline modules have bypass diodes... So if a part of the panel fails, the bypass diode will cause the voltage to fall-but still allow current flow from the other series panels.

    The diodes are needed anyway--each "cell" is only 0.5 volts and needs to be protected from reverse voltage/over current/shading.
    * Smaller gauge wires from PV-to-controller - cheaper, with no system losses.
    Typically, for 150 VDC rated MPPT controllers, Vmp max name plate works out to be around 100 VDC (cold weather, Vmp rises).
    * The chosen MPPT controller allows up to 75Voc. From Morningstar:

    "the greater the difference between the maximum power voltage and battery voltage, the greater the current boost. Current boost can be substantial in systems where the solar array is of a higher
    nominal voltage than the battery    "

    Which controller are you looking at? The MorningStar MPPT 15 amp unit has a 75 Voc limit. (PDF)

    The 45 and 60 amp units have Voc of 150 VDC. (PDF)

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • papa
    papa Solar Expert Posts: 51 ✭✭
    #19
    Re: Looking for Kaneka's new hybrid 110w PV's
    BB. wrote: »
    All crystalline modules have bypass diodes...
    Why is crystalline being mentioned?... my original query was soliciting help in locating hv amorphous/hybrids. I well realize the crystalline option exist, but they are NOT my first choice.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,613 admin
    #20
    Re: Looking for Kaneka's new hybrid 110w PV's

    Because I am not as familiar with amorphous solar panels and how they wire their bypass diodes. Especially those very large ones intended for Grid Tied systems.

    For smaller arrays (12 volt or so)--they can get by without any bypass diodes at all--as long as they are not series connected into higher voltage strings.

    I am not a big fan of CIGS/Amorphous solar panels--so I have not paid much attention to how they wire their diodes (and, from what little I have seen--it is difficult to find much of anything at all about bypass/blocking diode wiring details for any large solar panels).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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